Author Topic: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)  (Read 13112 times)

Offline Cameron Yelland

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2008, 04:59:58 PM »
if you want to know some thing ask your captain and follow the chain of command that is what it is there for, the system wont work properly if you dont follow the chain of command. And as usual the people that want to email the cheif cause of some bull filtered issue in their brigade or group are the biggest problem. USe the chain and see how well it acctually works

Chain of Command is for running incidents! Not running services. The sooner people realise that staff are there to serve the volunteer the better!

People should feel empowered to seek advice and information from a range of levels within the system. That maybe a senior firey or a captain or a staff member. Why is it so hard for CFS to communicate effectively?

These days everyone has an email address or is mates with someone who does - a novel idea send information direct to people. Surely information should not be locked in a command structure that is designed for incidents! People abuse information and use it as power or currency to be traded around. The way I see it take information flow out of the chain of command and direct to the consumer is both more efficient and a healthy way to go!

End Rant.....

HEAR HEAR!!!!
Compton CFS Brigade
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Offline Fox Mulder

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2008, 06:24:10 PM »
who do you think answers all of your complaints to the higher offices!
the cheif will talk to the region and often the region will talk with the group officers or captain to resolve issues. they are far to busy dealing with bull scheiße issues to acctually get thier real work done. Im not saying dont talk to the region but most of the time your captain or GO will know the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE

Offline bajdas

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2008, 07:27:34 PM »
who do you think answers all of your complaints to the higher offices!
the cheif will talk to the region and often the region will talk with the group officers or captain to resolve issues. they are far to busy dealing with bull filtered issues to acctually get thier real work done. Im not saying dont talk to the region but most of the time your captain or GO will know the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They might know but some are unwilling to pass the information on because it is a power base (I have the information but you dont), using the 'need to know' & 'confidentiality' excuse.

You learn over the years of ways to bypass some people to get information you are entitled to.

In fairness, the agencies are getting better. You can download from the websites the magazines & newsletters. Agendas & minutes are beginning to be posted, but confidentiality of certain items is an issue.

I believe some work is being done to improve & resolve some of the issues.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline Cameron Yelland

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2008, 07:37:10 PM »
Basically everyone knows the people above them in the chain of command and usually you are going to know before you ask them if you will get the info you need.  Its just something you learn over time.

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Offline Zippy

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2008, 09:46:18 PM »
Quote
19:53:07   17-07-08   PERSONNEL QUALIFIED WITH BOTH LEVEL 3 AND CABA INTERESTED IN HOT PAD TRANING AT BRUKUNGA CONTACT YOUR CAPTAINS CFS Gilbert Group Info

Can somebody email these guys...i sware they live in the past...and only ran a Level 3 Course last year???    Information flowwwww  :evil:

Offline Pipster

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2008, 10:59:23 PM »
Level 3 finished up being presented in some Regions not that long  ago.... and since there isn't a course currently that replaces it, perhaps they do actually want people who have done Level 3....!!!      :evil:

Pip
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Offline Zippy

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2008, 11:08:33 PM »
lol...that's a worry,  only catering for the ones that already have experience...meanwhile the inexperienced get stuck in there shell once again.

Offline chook

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2008, 07:18:42 AM »
It depends on what information you are after, certain pieces are commercially sensitive, some are ideas that need to be discussed at various levels before being released to the "great unwashed", some is information that may only relate to some individuals - sections (payed staff for example) & finally some is just not for public release (i.e politically sensitive).
Thats why you get the "need to know", & while I agree that some like to use information as a source of power, a lot of the time its just for the above reasons - nothing sinister! And with the flow of information & the amazing amount of info, sometimes people just can't absorb it all let alone distribute it to all of those people who may be interested. In my pay job for example we get emails about everthing! & if the subject line doesn't create an interest, guess what? its deleted! And on top of that there is all of those meetings, discussions & working groups. So if every single set of minutes, meeting notes or discusion paper was distributed to every vollie, would they really be read & understood?
And then sometimes what is written needs to be explained, so that the receiver of that information has a clear picture of what is being discussed.
There are two things people need to remember a) that you will never be told everything b) most of us are not interested in what the latest "brain wave" that is being tossed about in Wayemouth st! We are just too busy with our real lives :wink:
I pass on every bit of info to the guys in my unit, strangely enough they are not interested most of the time (the latest discussion on future requirements for responding to tasks however created a robust discussion & a very lively debate!)They don't care about grievance reports, who is who in the zoo or what the metro units/ CFS/ SAMFS are up to. They don't even give a toss about the minister (or her assistant Brad). They just want to get on with the job, without being stuffed about & when they are not happy they soon let me know so I can pass it up the chain (i.e. courses being cancelled at short notice, our chainsaw bid being canned etc).
So while I don't want to appear to agree with Fox (heaven forbid :-D ), he is quite right on one point - use the chain of command (UMAGS, Group meetings are one forum for info exchange), if your not happy tell you association (which means THEY need to consult their filtered members prior to meetings instead of making decisions for us). And as someone said previously if the chain ain't working replace the links :wink: (we are one of the few organisations who vote for our bosses) & if you are still not happy - you can always leave if enough members vote with their feet then I'm sure that someone will take notice!.
cheers
Ken
just another retard!

Offline bittenyakka

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2008, 09:50:04 AM »
AS far as i am concerned if there is as legit reason like it would be illegal to release information that's cool just tell us that it is illegal.

Don't email stuff to everyone post it n a website so those who are interested can view it at their discretion.

can you pleas elaborate on what is "politically sensitive" if they are doing their job right they can't get in o much trouble?

Offline chook

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2008, 10:16:06 AM »
Things like discussions around cutbacks in payed staff or redeployment of staff for example until its been decided then why have that sought of information circulating?
Also in my payed job lots of stuff is on our intranet - trouble is there is so much stuff people don't read it! Then claim that there is no information flow.
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Ken
just another retard!

Offline Alan J

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2008, 12:40:49 PM »
Chain of Command is for running incidents! Not running services. The sooner people realise that staff are there to serve the volunteer the better!

Whatever labels might be applied to CFS positions, the organisation heirarchy is a
chain of management. In a perfect world, it is right to ask the next level up,
confident that your manager will pass the Q up the food chain until an A comes back
down from the authoritive level.

In practice, we know from experience that there will be no intelligible answer to
some / many questions except by bypassing a management layer or three...  :-D
South Oz is a small state - who you know, not what you know & etc...   :-o

cheers
Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

Data isn't information.  Information isn't knowledge. 
Knowledge isn't wisdom.

Offline Cameron Yelland

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2008, 04:20:58 PM »
Also i think alot of the time those above us think that the information they have been given wouldnt interest those below and for the majority they are probaly right but there are those that like to know what is going on, be it something simple or complex.
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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2008, 06:26:20 PM »
Level 3 was get here in region five last year but some regions where able to still run it as they had low numbers in that area...flow of information is getting better we just need to make sure that we all get the same information...May be CFS should do a flow of information paper to each member?? Then we would all know what is going on....

Offline jaff

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2008, 12:18:09 AM »
Just a little tip on info flow,  when you send an email ,that has the potential to be ignored by the main recipient, because they may feel that you are just the grease on a small wheel, cc (carbon copy)a few other relevant people, thereby letting the main recipient know that, not only is just another filtered fireman  waiting on the answer, but a few of his peers!
Most people dont like to look like tossers in front of a crowd,......numbers you may be the exception :-D

Cheers Jaff
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline chook

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Re: CFS Information flows (Split from Burnside Pumper)
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2008, 08:43:29 AM »
Yep use that tip all of the time Jaff, matter of fact its standard practice where I come from :wink:
Numbers has been very quiet of late - whats going on there?
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Ken
just another retard!