Author Topic: future of Adelaide Hills SES  (Read 7019 times)

Offline Darius

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future of Adelaide Hills SES
« on: March 15, 2007, 08:57:39 AM »
Interesting article in this weeks Courier (Adelaide Hills newspaper) about problems at the Adelaide Hills SES unit (they don't seem to have updated their website yet so can't post a link to it: http://www.courier.net.au).  Now being the media I am cautious as to how much is correct (although the Courier are usually one of the better ones) but....

I found it interesting the ex unit manager's (David Chatwin) comment that they seem to be a glorified gardening service (referring to the number of trees down calls) rather than a real rescue service.  I think he's quite right (as an outsider to the SES) but that seems to be what the SES heirarchy want.

Also interesting to hear the reason for his suspension (and reinstatement) was his failing to submit paperwork as a protest.  What top people management skills shown by the SES big knobs.


Offline squiddy

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 04:00:50 PM »
Uh... there is a hell of a lot to this story that you are not aware of.
I would advise all SES personnel to steer clear of commenting on this one, otherwise you may just get your fingers burned.

Big brother is watching.

Offline Mike

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 04:54:29 PM »
A good bunch of guys down that way.... Im sure they will be there to help when people need it as long as they can and politics (however unfortunate) let them. Wont be the first (or last, unfortunately) brigade/unit that will overcome troubles.


(havent read the article, dont really care to...)

Offline Blue

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 08:07:26 PM »
Uh... there is a filtered of a lot to this story that you are not aware of.

C'mon Squiddy, give us the good ink  :wink:  :-D

Offline Alan (Big Al)

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 09:21:35 PM »
Since MFS took over comms their call out rate has gone up a bit for tree downs etc as MFS just used to only pages CFS in that area for that, but hopefully for them they sort their problems out soon, good luck getting through the politics of whatever is going on.
Lt. Goolwa CFS

Offline mack

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2007, 02:33:34 PM »
.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 02:41:29 PM by mack »

Offline Dave O

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2007, 05:31:41 PM »
Quote
I found it interesting the ex unit manager's (David Chatwin) comment that they seem to be a glorified gardening service (referring to the number of trees down calls) rather than a real rescue service.  I think he's quite right (as an outsider to the SES) but that seems to be what the SES heirarchy want.

As a member of the SES, thats just something we do.. We are the lead agency for storm and flood, storms cause trees to fall so we cut up trees. But I do understand the statement to an extent. It is frustrating to arrive at a Tree Down job that is something you would compare to a twig, that is blocking a persons driveway, where it could have easily been dragged out of the way...

The article goes on to say

Quote
All we seem to do at the moment is cut up trees and that's not why I joined the SES

The SES is a real rescue service, but the rescue's we specialise in come up rarely (Vertical, Land Search, Structural Collapse). Yes, it is hard to keep people interested when all they do is sandbag and remove trees, especially when they have been doing it for a number of years. And we have been doing a lot of these recently.. The aim is to become an expert in these rescue skills so that when the day comes and a person has fallen to the bottom of a cliff, or you have a structure collapse with persons trapped, you can perform the rescues swiftly and safely.

Hopefully the unit keeps going strong and can move on from the problems of the past..

Offline squiddy

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2007, 08:44:19 PM »
C'mon Squiddy, give us the good ink  :wink:  :-D

Haaaaaaaa! Hahahahahahahahahaa! Mate, you made me laugh. Thanks for that... definitely needed.

The main reason I am not going to get involved with this is due to the fact that these poor members are going to cop a lot of flack for the decision made by people to go to the media. I am not going to blame anyone. I have heard all sides to the story.

However, I will say this much (you knew it would happen eventually... Squiddy speaks once more). The public do not give a stuff about the inner turmoils of the service. The public do not want to hear how much their tree jobs tick off the crew. The public pay their emergency services levy, therefore they are entitled to call the SES if a tree falls. That is how the public sees it. The public are not trained in these jobs, so they call the SES. The public expect the SES (and CFS) to get in there and do any jobs asked, because the ESL is paid. The public do not want to hear about a lack of equipment and premises in the SES, because then they wonder what their money is being used for.

That is why the proverbial has hit the fan... because Mr and Mrs Joe Public believe they are paying for a professional service in an emergency, and they don't give a stuff about politics.

Welcome to the future of emergency services, boys and girls... it is ALL about corporate image and pleasing the taxpayers. It actually has little to do with rescue at all.

Offline SA Firey

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 10:06:20 PM »
Hmmm well I saw the Adelaide Hills SES guys the other night, and they have all new vehicles and it was a sight to see compared to the vehicles they had to work with previously.

Morale is very good from what I saw and its true the call rate has gone up,and thats beacuse they are getting the calls they should have received before.

As far as the future goes I cant see them closing.IMO
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Offline Scania_1

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2007, 12:14:40 PM »
Thought this was a bit strange though.

13:26:56 30-03-07 FLEX-A    ALPHA  1600  one or two crew required to assist Adel Hills tree down Mt. Barker  -= SES Strathalbyn =-

13:02:09 30-03-07 FLEX-A    ALPHA  1600  MFS: RESPOND Tree Down 30/03/07 12:58,18 FLETCHER RD,MT BARKER, MAP 172 P 9 ,,MRS TARRIN MUHLHAUSLER PH 83912662 P3 IN CUL DE SAC,DAILY INC. NO. 28,72120*CFSRES:  -= SES Adelaide Hills =-

When the CFS are 5 minutes away...or the council

Offline 24P

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2007, 11:33:06 PM »
C'mon ath, you know it doesnt work that way!  :-D
Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you.

Offline 5271rescue

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2007, 07:30:26 AM »
Time someone up the ladder said enough is enough,why should SES/MFS/CFS go out and cut up a tree that is on someones driveway or is in someone's backyard.These are council jobs or for a tree company to do...More and more we see that emergency services are being used to do jobs that the public can do or get someone esle to do.. Why do they call us beacuse we dont charge so is it time we did charge or is it time we got smart and said contact XZY and they will take care of it......If the job is not life threatning then pass it back onto the council or a private firm,its the same when we see the SES do tow jobs on the beach is that really our(their) job.......
blinky bill
my view only

Offline alphaone

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2007, 11:15:40 AM »
Time someone up the ladder said enough is enough,why should SES/MFS/CFS go out and cut up a tree that is on someones driveway or is in someone's backyard.These are council jobs or for a tree company to do...More and more we see that emergency services are being used to do jobs that the public can do or get someone esle to do.. Why do they call us beacuse we dont charge so is it time we did charge or is it time we got smart and said contact XZY and they will take care of it......If the job is not life threatning then pass it back onto the council or a private firm,its the same when we see the SES do tow jobs on the beach is that really our(their) job.......

Quite some years ago, my dad rang up Northern Districts SES Unit and gave them a hundred dollars to cut down a tree in our front yard that was in danger of falling on the power lines and one very large limb was indanger of falling on our house. They used it as a training session for some members who needed to get some practice in.

Offline bajdas

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 03:38:32 AM »
Quite some years ago, my dad rang up Northern Districts SES Unit and gave them a hundred dollars to cut down a tree in our front yard that was in danger of falling on the power lines and one very large limb was indanger of falling on our house. They used it as a training session for some members who needed to get some practice in.

That would have been many years ago when fund did not come from Emergency Service Levy and local council contributions had to be suplimented.

If that happened today, private tree contractors would kck up a stick for stealing their work at less than commercial rates and OH&S would have a fit.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline Lizzy

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 09:08:25 PM »
Quote
I found it interesting the ex unit manager's (David Chatwin) comment that they seem to be a glorified gardening service (referring to the number of trees down calls) rather than a real rescue service.  I think he's quite right (as an outsider to the SES) but that seems to be what the SES heirarchy want.

As a member of the SES, thats just something we do.. We are the lead agency for storm and flood, storms cause trees to fall so we cut up trees. But I do understand the statement to an extent. It is frustrating to arrive at a Tree Down job that is something you would compare to a twig, that is blocking a persons driveway, where it could have easily been dragged out of the way...

The article goes on to say

Quote
All we seem to do at the moment is cut up trees and that's not why I joined the SES

The SES is a real rescue service, but the rescue's we specialise in come up rarely (Vertical, Land Search, Structural Collapse). Yes, it is hard to keep people interested when all they do is sandbag and remove trees, especially when they have been doing it for a number of years. And we have been doing a lot of these recently.. The aim is to become an expert in these rescue skills so that when the day comes and a person has fallen to the bottom of a cliff, or you have a structure collapse with persons trapped, you can perform the rescues swiftly and safely.

Hopefully the unit keeps going strong and can move on from the problems of the past..



OKAY im in the unit, and this has to be said.
Yeh we are a free glorified gardening service. and it is dissapointing getting to a 'whole tree' over drive way to get out and fine something that is dragged of by 1 member. and a lot of ppl say they do other things, not just tree jobs. but honestly it isnt like thta at all. we do tree jobs. ocassionally we mite get something else but we never get to the other job because of the responce time. i mean other units have RCR responce BUT why would state want to give the unit RCR when we have a responce time of on a good day 20 mins on a bad day 40 mins. i dont blame them and i can see that.
so you may ask well why still be iin the unit!??
FOR ONE REASON. some people in the community cant do the job themselves. they need help and we are the ones who are generous enough to help in a time of crisis.
but on saying this, most are in CFS aswell so its not like we only do tree jobs, thats just more a winter thing.
I say what i think, coz im allowed to have an opinion.

Offline Blue

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2007, 05:21:28 PM »
Following on from recent thread, and being Devil's advocate here - all arborists are required to view a permit from council prior to works, incase a tree is listed or protected under legislation, including for pruning works. I wonder if emergency services do the same thing if the tree is still standing? ..... (Different story of course if it has fallen over and is on someone's house or blocking a roadway)

Offline Dave O

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2007, 07:50:26 PM »
why are we there if it is still standing??

Offline bajdas

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2007, 10:26:10 AM »
why are we there if it is still standing??

SES SCC get a lot of 'tree branch threatening' or split tree limb taskings.

The call taker tries to determine if the threat is a real emergency or if the person wants to bypass the council regulations. But we need to err on the side of caution and send a recce crew to check if we have any doubts.

I have heard of some real stinks when a crew of volunteers deem the tasking not to be an emergency & thus drives away. The people threaten to go to the Minister, media, etc, etc. I have lost count the number of people that state they deserve the service because 'they pay the emergency services levy'.

We have tracked a person who called the 132500 telephone number five times for a 'threatening to fall tree' during a storm event. He did not know we computer log every call even if it is deemed a non-tasking event. All six call takers were warned about him.

It was determined that he was being opportunist. On the fifth time he called, we called the local Unit Manager who sent a recce crew to explain the situation in person.

At other times we have had people call 'not wanting to disturb us' & 'they know we are busy', but when convenient 'could we come around to have a look'. Turns into a gum tree branch 50% split at the trunk. The split branch was hanging over the peoples main bedroom, with storm winds moving the branch. The people were elderly pensioners & I understand the kettle was hot for the crew when they arrived.

It is the grateful members of the community that you go out into storm weather for.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline bajdas

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2007, 10:32:01 AM »
Following on from recent thread, and being Devil's advocate here - all arborists are required to view a permit from council prior to works, incase a tree is listed or protected under legislation, including for pruning works. I wonder if emergency services do the same thing if the tree is still standing? ..... (Different story of course if it has fallen over and is on someone's house or blocking a roadway)

I understand the OIC of the emergency services crew has the legal rights to make the situation safe, without referral to council. This includes significant trees.

Thus the SES crew will often drop a threatening tree branch safely and then make sure the tree is evenly balanced. The resultant wood is cut into 'one or two' person liftable pieces and stacked on the property. Then the crew pack up to go to the next tasking.

I have heard of owners then questioning why the whole tree has not been felled or the wood transported off their property.

But their are majority who are really grateful their property is safe.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline Pipster

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2007, 11:31:45 AM »
Out of curiosity, what training do SES members have in tree falling?

In my area, (and I think across the state) CFS will not put people through the tree falling course (which I think is about an 80 hour course)...

Pip
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Offline mack

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2007, 01:09:15 PM »
SES members (that have completed the training obviously) are fully qualified to fell trees...


this has been discussed in another thread somewhere.

Offline Lizzy

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2007, 01:29:53 PM »
Out of curiosity, what training do SES members have in tree falling?

In my area, (and I think across the state) CFS will not put people through the tree falling course (which I think is about an 80 hour course)...

Pip


well the courses that the ses do in the area of this discussion, is chainsaw course (weekend course) and storm damage, but thats not really involved with the tree comes in handy for  fallen on a house that sorta stuff.

so basically the ses have the smae training as the cfs in this situation.
there are some taskings that you role up and wonder why you are there but like some one else said the person to greet you, is eardly, greets with a smile and even a piece of cake. and they are just so happy for you to leave the branches on their property, so long as their house is safe.
it does make you feel good to know you have helped. but the cfs would have been able to do the same job. with a ladder and chainsaw!
I say what i think, coz im allowed to have an opinion.

Offline Pipster

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2007, 01:48:58 PM »
SES members (that have completed the training obviously) are fully qualified to fell trees...


this has been discussed in another thread somewhere.

I know it has been discussed, but, from memory, there wasn't really an answer!!

Pip
There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline bajdas

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2007, 02:04:05 PM »
SES members (that have completed the training obviously) are fully qualified to fell trees...


this has been discussed in another thread somewhere.

I know it has been discussed, but, from memory, there wasn't really an answer!!

Pip

I believe an advanced chainsaw course is run by an outside-SES training provider . I think this is a SES State run course.

I will try and find out some details, but I am not with a SES Rescue Unit so this could take me some time....hopefully someone else can answer accurately & quickly.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline mack

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Re: future of Adelaide Hills SES
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2007, 02:35:43 PM »
SES members (that have completed the training obviously) are fully qualified to fell trees...


this has been discussed in another thread somewhere.

I know it has been discussed, but, from memory, there wasn't really an answer!!

Pip

kk - well theres ya answer then anyway ;)

not sure what the name of the course is though.

 

anything