SES Callouts

[24P]

Is anyone from the SES able to tell me how a unit like Northern Districts, when they got busy yesterday seem to just let the calls back up and get to them when they can? Wouldnt it be more appropriate to pass them off to say the MFS or CFS or other SES units (if not busy themselves) to be done. How long would it have been before some of those jobs got done? Just curious if someone could enlighten me.
Thanks

[Firefrog]

SES do things a bit different to the fire services. They run a tasking board each tasking gets allocated a priority. The vehicles go from job to job till there all done.

New calls get added to the board and the list grows until the calls stop.......I assume high priority jobs would get passed off to other agencies if the need arose....I hope.

[backburn]

In an area where I come from it can take two days after a severe storm, and that was for a house with the roof half ripped off. No other agencies where called not even the MFS who area it was in. They got told to p off

[Grunt]

Metro units work slightly differently to most of their country conterparts.

Country areas tend to call CFS when multitaskings happen, depending on the types of jobs.

In the last lot we had lots of trees, so CFS delt with them and SES dealt with all the tarping etc.

When Lots of buildings etc are involved we break the SES crews up and send them out with CFS trucks to get a better coverage of skills and personel...

[bajdas]

CFS liason officer was at SES SCC from Saturday afternoon onwards.

Saturday morning onwards (could have been earlier as well), some tasks were passed directly to CFS brigades. For example, I understand that CFS assisted at Mawson Lakes, Murray Bridge and Callington.

On some of the tasks, MFS & CFS would not attend due to lack of resources.

SES Regions monitor each Units tasking workload and extra resources can be deployed to assist from another SES Unit. If this is overloaded, then additional resources from another organisation can be requested.

But, it is primarily the SES Unit's Operations person to determine if they request additional resources to assist with the workload. They are the OIC of their area.

Some Units do this and others delay. For example, Murray Bridge SES Unit had a full liason AIIMS structure for the local area. I believe a more consistent approach is being worked on.

I think majority of the taskings were roof damage & internal flooding damage. Only a few of the tasks were flooding from roads, ovals, creeks which required sandbags and a few trees.

[bajdas]

Is anyone from the SES able to tell me how a unit like Northern Districts, when they got busy yesterday seem to just let the calls back up and get to them when they can? Wouldnt it be more appropriate to pass them off to say the MFS or CFS or other SES units (if not busy themselves) to be done. How long would it have been before some of those jobs got done? Just curious if someone could enlighten me.
Thanks

I understand that Enfield, Tea Tree Gully and Prospect completed some taskings in Northern District SES area.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but for sandbags, minor trees and pumping (ground level flooding), CFS & MFS resources can assist.

But I thought it would be dangerous to place a CFS crew on a slippery roof for tarping because a CFS crew is not trained in the skill ? That was majority of the taskings during the weekend.

Just like SES cannot fight a fire because we are not trained in that skill.

[bajdas]

SES do things a bit different to the fire services. They run a tasking board each tasking gets allocated a priority. The vehicles go from job to job till there all done.

New calls get added to the board and the list grows until the calls stop.......I assume high priority jobs would get passed off to other agencies if the need arose....I hope.

Spot on...if tasking involves further damage to the property because more flooding could occur, then this has higher priority than water on the internal walls and ceiling wet because the damage has already occurred.

[Master of Disaster]

hey guys, i am a member of a ses unit close to north/dis ses and we did back them up when they stood down and in between all in a days work 

[24P]

Thanks for the replies as i said just a query, CFS do know how to work on roofs (well some anyway). Was just concerned that the occupants had to wait a length of time before they were attended to by the SES, just though it may have been better to get more resources on the ground to deal with these incidents quickly to maybe avoid some distress by callers waiting a while for assistance.

[bajdas]

Thanks for the replies as i said just a query, CFS do know how to work on roofs (well some anyway). Was just concerned that the occupants had to wait a length of time before they were attended to by the SES, just though it may have been better to get more resources on the ground to deal with these incidents quickly to maybe avoid some distress by callers waiting a while for assistance.

Fully agree that everyone can improve to do better to meet the 'aim of assisting the community as quickly as possible'.

Procedures are being reviewed & updated after the debrief. This includes ETSA, SAWater & Councils.

I think the multi-agency response at Renmark storm was really great example. CFS & MFS cleared roadways of trees & debris, ETSA ficed power, while SES tackled the roofs and structure damage.

But with multi-taskings over a few days you will have people waiting. The priorities on tasks are really important to get accurate to ensure people with flooded houses/roof damage/Rescue/flooded road/etc get fixed before the tree twig on the front garden.

[Master of Disaster]

MFS: DAILY INC. NO. 75 - 14/07/07 23:27,RESPOND Tree Down,3 DUNCAN RD,BEAUMONT, MAP 131 Q 4 ,,TREE ON PWR LINES & PARTLY BLOCKING ROAD, FROM ETSA WHO ARE IN ATTENDANCE,2919 441*CFSRES: CFS Burnside Response


WHAT THE? Um is that an SES job? I think so...

[Pipster]

How about the nearest & most appropriate resource being sent..?

It seem ridiculous for an SES unit to be sent, when a CFS brigade, with the same gear is only  a few hundred metres away...and there are other services waiting for whoever to arrive...why should they waste their time waiting for a resource to come from further away, when there is one only a few minutes away?

Pip

[uniden]

I would also think that a tree on powerlines would be a considerable fire risk also. Hence the despatching of a fire appliance(s) would be fairly important.

[Stefan KIRKMOE]

As Pip mentioned, closest most appropriate resource..... At the end of the day how does a tree down become an "SES job". I don't think jobs can really be classified when at the end of the day we are all here in the interests of public safety.
It's the way it used to be until SES comms moved over to Adelaide Fire and SES magically "took over" incidents such as trees down. Hopefully it will be re-assessed soon and all incidents will just go by the rule of closest most appropriate resource.

Stefan
(my views only!)

[RescueHazmat]

MFS: DAILY INC. NO. 75 - 14/07/07 23:27,RESPOND Tree Down,3 DUNCAN RD,BEAUMONT, MAP 131 Q 4 ,,TREE ON PWR LINES & PARTLY BLOCKING ROAD, FROM ETSA WHO ARE IN ATTENDANCE,2919 441*CFSRES: CFS Burnside Response


WHAT THE? Um is that an SES job? I think so...

Maybe they could be sent also, but I would definately want the fire service responded in the first instance aswell due to the risk involved.

[Smokey Bear]

I have a better solution

How about we disband the SES and stop wasting tax payers money on another emergency service that just seems to be a duplication of other services!

There is nothing the SES do that the CFS/MFS cant do.

Bring on the South Australian Fire & Rescue Service!

Then there would be no arguements on whose job is who!

[Zippy]

if that were to happen under the current labour government theyd probably make the longest name ever lol

"South Australia Fire and Rescue Service: Country Fire Division"  ridicolusly long lol

[5271rescue]

Interesting that you say disban the SES,a number of country ses units no longer have the mann power to get their appliances out the door and for some crazy reason the people up the ladder(ses) will not allow these units to become part of a cfs brigade all for the sake of keeping a controller in a job.

If we look around the state there is over duplication of services(MFS/SES/CFS) in country towns that can no longer support all 3 or 4 volunteers services but yet the powers to be just let them keep going with low crew numbers and at what cost to the community. We also see new sheds(stations) going up for services that don't have the mann power or the call out rate's. Is it fair that the community and its taxes are wasted in this way?

If services want and are willing to amalgamate then let them for the sake of the community who as been supporting and supply members for all theses services but can no longer do so.


Back on topic,i agree with pip the closes service should be sent..

[SA Firey]

Closest service yes,Glen Osmond around the corner but due to it being CFS area CFS/MFS both went.

If we eventually go that way we will more likely be South Australian Fire & Rescue Service and boundaries will be a thing of the past.SACAD will select the closest resource to dispatch.

[bajdas]

I have a better solution

How about we disband the SES and stop wasting tax payers money on another emergency service that just seems to be a duplication of other services!

There is nothing the SES do that the CFS/MFS cant do.

Bring on the South Australian Fire & Rescue Service!

Then there would be no arguements on whose job is who!

OK, so consider the impact in the metro & regional centres. The specialist search & rescue skills could disappear (eg USAR, vertical, confined space, shoring, tree felling, search, air observers, drop master, dog search, sea & river rescue, etc).

If you used the same logic, the CFS urban brigades can disappear to MFS or become SES Units, because the demand in metro areas is flood & storm rather than a duplicate fire services. This logic means nothing wrong with placing Burnsides and Salisbury rural trucks in a MFS station, because you have duplication of fire services.

Also, please remember that many of the 2000+ SES volunteers will not move to a CFS structure, due to multiple reasons that are not best aired in a public forum.

I have read the anger caused by MFS potentially or moving into Seaford and Mt Barker areas. How do you think SES volunteers feel if a fellow volunteer suggests we be disbanded !!

If people want a sensible discussion on MERGING rather than a TAKEOVER, then send me a message & I would be happy to debate.

Please DO NOT INSULT another emergency service volunteer by saying their skills are useless...it belittles your knowledge of the emergency service sector in SA.

** my personal opinion only **

[bajdas]

Interesting that you say disban the SES,a number of country ses units no longer have the mann power to get their appliances out the door and for some crazy reason the people up the ladder(ses) will not allow these units to become part of a cfs brigade all for the sake of keeping a controller in a job.

If we look around the state there is over duplication of services(MFS/SES/CFS) in country towns that can no longer support all 3 or 4 volunteers services but yet the powers to be just let them keep going with low crew numbers and at what cost to the community. We also see new sheds(stations) going up for services that don't have the mann power or the call out rate's. Is it fair that the community and its taxes are wasted in this way?

If services want and are willing to amalgamate then let them for the sake of the community who as been supporting and supply members for all theses services but can no longer do so.

Back on topic,i agree with pip the closes service should be sent..

I agree with amalgation if the volunteers agree. That would mean that if the SES Unit is stronger than the CFS Brigade, then CFS closes.

[Smokey Bear]

If its not viable then its not viable.  No one is saying the vollies are useless and would be more than welcome in the SA fire & rescue service.  If they wanna have sour grapes and join thats their problem.


I think if SAFECOM does what it was setup to do the writing is on the wall for the SES.  There is nothing the SES does that the Fire & Rescue service could not do!

[bajdas]

If its not viable then its not viable.  No one is saying the vollies are useless and would be more than welcome in the SA fire & rescue service.  If they wanna have sour grapes and join thats their problem.

I think if SAFECOM does what it was setup to do the writing is on the wall for the SES.  There is nothing the SES does that the Fire & Rescue service could not do!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... it is not sour grapes.

You are assuming that a merged entity will be more like the existing CFS structure than the existing SES structure for operational volunteer management. I hope it will be merger with the best of the existing systems from all three organisations.

I can see the paid permanent staff being merged under SAFECOM (currently happening with Corporate Communications/Media, IT, OH&S & HR/VMB), but I cannot see the operational sections merging yet. Not unless the UFU, SASESVA & SAVFBA agee.

** my personal opinion only **

[Mike]

Without dragging the thread to much further off track.....

Even in the states that do proclaim to have a 'Fire and Rescue' (ie QLD, WA) service the SES still exists and has an important role to play. So, in history it has already been proven that the SES has a place in the emergency service structures.

Now, back on track.

Closest most appropriate resource is not disputed. However, in the name of politics and interservice relations - would it not be curtious to let the 'combatant authority' know whats happening?

[Jimmy]

How about the nearest & most appropriate resource being sent..?

It seem ridiculous for an SES unit to be sent, when a CFS brigade, with the same gear is only  a few hundred metres away...and there are other services waiting for whoever to arrive...why should they waste their time waiting for a resource to come from further away, when there is one only a few minutes away?

Pip

CFS brigade with the same gear?

From my experience both Burnside Pumper and Glen Osmond carry a single "036"  (medium) sized chainsaw and possibly a bow saw.

Eastern Suburbs 172 (primary truck) carries a 036 but also a 009 (small) and 076 (large) saw as well as a pole saw.

Even if 172 was otherwise occupied (which it wasn't)... 173 carries a 009 036 and pole saw when responding to tree jobs.

Sure send a fire truck if necessary... but why not send just one fire truck for fire protection (although ETSA are on site so power is likely to be isolated) and the most appropriate resource (SES) for the tree. Eastern have done many many tree on powerline taskings without fire support and do know how to deal with live wires.

The closest resource was defiantly Burnside CFS... the closest appropriate resource is Eastern Suburbs SES.


SES get called to "tree down" as they are the control agency for Storm... and tree down is considered a storm event. Under the MFS/SES Memorandum of understanding fire should only dispatch a MFS appliance for a tree event if it is considered P1(immediate life threat) which is defined as a few criteria (Major road, secondary road completely blocked, person trapped and a few others(I can get this if anyone is dying to know)). This certainly isn't followed.

Some brigades have no issue with SES responding to tree jobs. One even ensures that SES are called even if they weren't on the primary page. Other brigades think they can do it all can call in SES once the job gets too tough for them. (In the same way some SES units think they can do it all and never ask for help)

And as for SES not having anything to offer... why are we called by CFS/MFS to assist them at jobs <eg yesterday afternoon's house fire>? I thought they could do it all?

MFS: DAILY INC. NO. 64 - 17/07/07 17:49,RESPOND To,1 MILBANCA RD,HOUGHTON, MAP 86 B 11 ,,ASSIST CFS WITH TARPING HOUSE AFTER HOUSE FIRE. CFS INCIDENT CONTROLLER. P3,73520*CFSRES:

Even if MFS were trained up to do everything we do... the same argument that keeps CFS in business keeps SES running... the MFS could do all the tasks that CFS does... just not with their current budget. In the event of a major disaster there needs to be surge capacity in any system... something that cannot be afforded with the MFS system. See the Sydney/Newcastle storms just gone... SES, MFB, RFS, Police rescue, Ambulance Rescue, etc etc were all used... but additional resources were still needed from interstate.

/ end rant

James