Author Topic: USAR  (Read 8580 times)

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
USAR
« on: August 06, 2007, 06:06:33 PM »
The horrible bridge collapse in the US made me wonder about a couple of things.

In Adelaide a structure has collapsed it is(was) a 3 story concrete building with  a car park underneath and it is known that people are trapped in the rubble. 

now it is equal distance from CFS and MFS stations so it doesn't matter what service is responded.
Obviously the first crews to arrive will do what they can to protect extremities and any easily accessibly rescues whilst remaining safe. Now my main question is once the site had been deemed a recovery and not a rescue who job is it to recover any  casualties?

and Is there anything taught in USAR that should make me Tell my Crews NOT to move rubble etc. even if people are visible and screaming at them?

Offline Alan (Big Al)

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,609
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • CRUMPETS
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 06:18:09 PM »
As tempting as it is I wouldn't be moving anything until a USAR trained service was there as that type of thing can be extremely unstable, if you were the first crew on scenean non USAR trained i would go into protection mode and help anyone who isn't trapped etc.
Lt. Goolwa CFS

uniden

  • Guest
Re: USAR
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 06:36:35 PM »
If it is in the metropolitan area it would matter who was responded. MFS have personnel trained in USAR as well as equipment in PODS etc to deal with it.

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 11:35:18 PM »
Either way, SES would get called.. - And possibly the national USAR team (the group trained in the advanced USAR stuff) if it was major.. (SAAS SOT, STAR Force, etc etc)..

If it was huge, you may even see defence force involved to help out... - Alot of agencies would be utilized..

Offline Red Truck Wonderland

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2007, 12:19:20 AM »
With an incident of that size!  You wouldn't have time to scratch you donkey, net alone complete your sceene assessment, and SA has a capable USAR Team with member in SAAS, SES and MFS,  the state usar training is expanding with more and more involved,  another three week course is planned later this year!!  they simulate just that senario so they are well prepared!!
You need to get a life outside of the CFS. Go outside, look around. I'm sure trailer parks smell lovely in the morning.

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 01:37:31 AM »
Thredbo.. 17 people *reported* trapped in the landslide..

How many resources were used then? ... - A TON!

Offline mack

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 09:22:54 AM »
first response would obviously be local fire service, plus whatever the system has in it for a 'structure collapse'... this would possibly be local SES plus a specialist SES USAR unit and regional/state officer probly a fire service regional or district officer also, could also include a fire service heavy rescue appliance if applicable...

first one scene would most likely be local fire, complete an initial assesment and upgrade response, perform any fire fighting duties, and assist with medical if possible.

if the first arriving resources are USAR trained then complete and initial assesment and get to work.

USAR resources arrive and get to work with full asessments and then search and rescue.

presumably an officer from either fire service or ses would arrive shortly and upgrade response request further resources, take over IC fairly snappily..


as others have said the USAR trained services in the state have done plenty of exercises that cover this exact sort of thing and are amongst the best crews in the country...



RTW - one would hope you would take the time to complete an assesment, no point just throwing your crews in there to 'do there best'... rescue has to be coordinated and take into account all the risks on scene.

whats the CFS term?

"safety first come home safe" ?




anyway thats just my personal thoughts...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 09:24:33 AM by mack »

Offline bajdas

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,745
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 10:43:06 AM »
** my personal opinion only **

After making the scene safe for crews to enter (eg what caused the collapse ? Do we have another Gladstone incident), the 1st responders should aim to begin the 1st part of the '5 stages of Rescue' or CREST.

C = Clearance of surface casualties, reconnaissance & emergency rescue
R = Rescue of the trapped
E = Exploration of likely survival points
S = Selected debris removal
T = Total debris clearance.

One of the hardest tasks, even in exercises, is the Recce. But it essential to be done accurately, quickly and early...It is really difficult to keep moving to survey the other portions of the incident when a casualty screams at you to help them.

But you could have 20 people stuck behind a door behind movable debris, further on....

A mud map of the incident scene detailing access, risks and casuality locations really helps the incident controller.

Another task for first responders is to secure the scene so spectators do not become casualties. This can occur by spectators entering the incident area, spectators collapsing after seeing the incident, stress on relatives of casualties, etc, etc.

As seen in the USA bridge collapse, if you can organise the spectators they can assist in the 'clearance of surface casualties'. They can also assist comforting/first aid in your central location for all casualties outside of the incident area.

A USAR team will use a standard USAR wall marking system, which is internationally recognised & is taught in USAR cat 1 course. This will detail via a diagram if it is safe to enter a space or area, how many casualties removed, who did the recce and how many are still trapped. The markings will be drawn in orange paint (spray cans).

Unfortunately, depending on when, where & time that the building collapse occured, you might not save everyone. It will also depend on the type of collapse (eg pancake, etc).

The 'aim of rescue' is always "to save the maximum number of lives in the minimum time".

« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 11:27:36 AM by bajdas »
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline bajdas

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,745
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 11:15:32 AM »
...first response would obviously be local fire service, plus whatever the system has in it for a 'structure collapse'...

Actually, it might be SAPOL or SAAS as first responders at the scene..
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline mack

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 11:44:59 AM »
obviously SAAS and SAPOl would be responding/on scene...

but i was referring to first response from the fire and rescue services.

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 03:31:01 PM »
So basically get USAR crews there and assist them however you can.

Who are the USAR in SA? or where are they based and is there a reason there isn't any trained people in CFS?

Offline mack

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 03:45:31 PM »
control agencies for USAR are SASES and SAMFS.

im not sure how the control agency of an incident in MFS fire area would be determined,,, but i guess that puts SASES in charge (of the search and rescue side of things) of any incidents in CFS fire area.... lol i can just imagine the noses that would be put out of place with that.

Offline mattb

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 04:00:39 PM »
Quote
Who are the USAR in SA? or where are they based and is there a reason there isn't any trained people in CFS?

The CFS was actually going to participate in USAR a couple of years ago, so much so that a few of us undertook the CAT 1 USAR course to become CFS instructors. Unfortunately that is where it all stopped, I believe the decision was made by senior staff that it was not part of CFS core business and that CFS would not be participating in anything USAR related at all.

Bit of a pity really as the CAT 1 course is good fun and gives first responders the skills necessary to safely remove surface casualties and perform rapid assessment of damaged structures.

When you consider that there is a reasonable chance that CFS would be involved somehow at a major USAR incident it is sad that they won't have the appropriate training to be able to undertake any work on a rubble pile or collapsed structure.

Offline SA Firey

  • Forum Group Officer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,967
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2007, 06:30:27 PM »
control agencies for USAR are SASES and SAMFS.

im not sure how the control agency of an incident in MFS fire area would be determined,,, but i guess that puts SASES in charge (of the search and rescue side of things) of any incidents in CFS fire area.... lol i can just imagine the noses that would be put out of place with that.

As a professional organisation we should respect each others combatant authority at an incident...if its SES so be it, we are all trained to certain levels however many hands make light work :wink:
Images are copyright

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2007, 07:00:09 PM »
I think SAPOL are the co-ordinating Authority in any incident, with the combattive authorities being those regarding to Rescue etc.

Offline Red Truck Wonderland

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2007, 10:42:13 PM »
Hmm  Now where is my Blue Book.....  Anybody got a quick reference to it?
You need to get a life outside of the CFS. Go outside, look around. I'm sure trailer parks smell lovely in the morning.

Offline mack

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2007, 08:51:04 AM »
I think SAPOL are the co-ordinating Authority in any incident, with the combattive authorities being those regarding to Rescue etc.


that is correct, although the term 'combatant authority' has been replaced by 'control agency'...

SAPol are the 'coordinating agency' for all emergencies.

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: USAR
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2007, 02:51:00 PM »
Thanks Mack..

 

anything