Author Topic: Captains (Read 11636 times)

Crank · « **on:** August 06, 2007, 05:41:30 PM »

Hello All,

Im new here. i was referred here as i was told it can be a useful tool to solve problems.

anyway.

Our brigade Captain continually ignores S.O.P's and quite often doesnt where his PPE which sometimes puts his life in danger and makes the cfs look bad.

What can we do?

Smokey Bear · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:44:01 PM »

Best bet would be to refer the problem to your group officer. If they wont do anything then go over their head.

Pipster · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2007, 06:45:16 PM »

It is difficult when Officers, in particular, aren't doing the right thing - some Group officers will do something about a problem like this.....others are part of the problem....

When is your next brigade election due?....if people aren't happy, then vote the Captain out.....that'll solve that problem!!

Pip

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2007, 07:51:04 PM »

Talk to your Vol. support officer and ask what they think the best path would be..

Have you spoken to the Capt. and other officers about it?

rescue5271 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2007, 08:23:36 PM »

Follow chain of command,go to group officer if not good go to regional staff

SA Firey · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:45:26 PM »

Like captains who go to fixed alarms in their private vehicle with a portable who put a stop call on appliances responding.

Captains who dont even do fire reports and activity sheets for their brigade

Just some examples of breaches of SOP's you hear about

24pumper · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:20:45 PM »

Hi Crank,
Interesting.. Cant say i envy you with such an issue in your brigade. I cant really shed any light on what to do, Although the other people on here have probably covered the correct way to go about stoof, i just wonder if getting the region and people outside the brigade in is going to have longer term repercussions, possibly towards your self.. While i dont think going against SOP's etc should be condoned, experience which im sure your captain has a bit of, can sometimes give a view as to the faults in SOP's. before you all get on your high horse about it, have a look at the 'wearing of helmets' thread where many of you state that you wear structural helmets all the time for the added protection (so do i infact), remember back to when that was a BIG no no, and would leand to you being thrown off the fire ground supposedly! I suppose what im getting at is that if you look at everyhting with your BFF1 glasses on, having done BFF1 by the 'book' then you may perhaps shake your head at how things are done in real life, but with a bit of experience you realise that the 'book' doesnt put fires out, although be it on your (or in this case your captains head) if something goes wrong...

Crank · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2007, 04:50:19 PM »

Quote from: 24pumper on August 07, 2007, 04:20:45 PM

Hi Crank,
Interesting.. Cant say i envy you with such an issue in your brigade. I cant really shed any light on what to do, Although the other people on here have probably covered the correct way to go about stoof, i just wonder if getting the region and people outside the brigade in is going to have longer term repercussions, possibly towards your self.. While i dont think going against SOP's etc should be condoned, experience which im sure your captain has a bit of, can sometimes give a view as to the faults in SOP's. before you all get on your high horse about it, have a look at the 'wearing of helmets' thread where many of you state that you wear structural helmets all the time for the added protection (so do i infact), remember back to when that was a BIG no no, and would leand to you being thrown off the fire ground supposedly! I suppose what im getting at is that if you look at everyhting with your BFF1 glasses on, having done BFF1 by the 'book' then you may perhaps shake your head at how things are done in real life, but with a bit of experience you realise that the 'book' doesnt put fires out, although be it on your (or in this case your captains head) if something goes wrong...

I understand what your saying...its not practical doing everything by the book but it cases like wearing PPE thats a given.

Id be glad to take it to the GO etc but as you say it can have long term effects on the brigade and/or myself.

Thanks for your assistance

SA Firey · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:13:36 PM »

Quote from: Crank on August 07, 2007, 04:50:19 PM

Quote from: 24pumper on August 07, 2007, 04:20:45 PM
Hi Crank,
Interesting.. Cant say i envy you with such an issue in your brigade. I cant really shed any light on what to do, Although the other people on here have probably covered the correct way to go about stoof, i just wonder if getting the region and people outside the brigade in is going to have longer term repercussions, possibly towards your self.. While i dont think going against SOP's etc should be condoned, experience which im sure your captain has a bit of, can sometimes give a view as to the faults in SOP's. before you all get on your high horse about it, have a look at the 'wearing of helmets' thread where many of you state that you wear structural helmets all the time for the added protection (so do i infact), remember back to when that was a BIG no no, and would leand to you being thrown off the fire ground supposedly! I suppose what im getting at is that if you look at everyhting with your BFF1 glasses on, having done BFF1 by the 'book' then you may perhaps shake your head at how things are done in real life, but with a bit of experience you realise that the 'book' doesnt put fires out, although be it on your (or in this case your captains head) if something goes wrong...

I understand what your saying...its not practical doing everything by the book but it cases like wearing PPE thats a given.

Id be glad to take it to the GO etc but as you say it can have long term effects on the brigade and/or myself.

Thanks for your assistance

It would also have a long term effct if a breach of the SOP's led to a firefighter being injured or killed

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:46:14 PM »

IG he won't wear his PPE, under OHS&W it is yours, and everyone elses responsibilty to TELL him he is not to be on the firetruck.

Weather he is a captain or not, I think you will find OHS&W legislation FAR outranks his yellow helmet and red stripe...

rescue5271 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:18:31 PM »

I just hate captains/brigades that dont take aplliances to fixed alarms,so much so that I have been saying to a few of them when they get a "bill" from the brigade that they dont have to pay as there was no fire appliances at the job....If and when the new alarm system comes on line then brigade's will have no choice but to take an appliances to a fixed alarm..WHY well if SAFECOM want their money you will have to take the truck its also in the SOP'S.....

mack · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2007, 08:54:05 AM »

Quote from: rescue5271 on August 07, 2007, 10:18:31 PM

If and when the new alarm system comes on line then brigade's will have no choice but to take an appliances to a fixed alarm..

and hopefully a full crew...

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:48:25 PM »

If Rogue Brigade / Captains don't follow the rules now, what will make them change ? .. - Answer.. - Unless they get hauled over the coals, Nothing!.

Hearing of Brigades/Captains not taking appliances to Fire Alarms and the like, is honestly, disgusting! Regions should be clamping down on things like that! - But instead, they challenge brigades who want to carry OxyViva ! - Try work that one out!!!

SA Firey · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:13:59 PM »

Well said Rescue

Sarge · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2008, 09:23:01 PM »

Quote from: SA Firey on August 06, 2007, 11:45:26 PM

Like captains who go to fixed alarms in their private vehicle with a portable who put a stop call on appliances responding.

We have a similar problem, Call for smoke siteing capt goes out in his own ute then stop calls us before we get the truck out of the station, God help us when he rocks up to one & there is a big fire

chook · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2008, 09:42:09 PM »

Knew of another fire service that used to take a car to alarm calls, doesn't happen now but.
If captains/ unit managers/officers don't follow the rules - how can the troops be expected to?
But you guys vote your captains in, surely the problem can be soughted at election time?
cheers

fireblade · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2008, 06:57:48 AM »

Can't believe some Captains still rock up in their private vehicle, so unprofessional. We have a neighbouring Captain that use to do it I don't think he does it now days. I have also told group officers from the same offending group to leave the fire ground and don the proper PPE then they can take command from me!

We would be responded as rescue for an RCR and his brigade would be fire cover only. He would give an arrival sitrep stating no rescue required. Then I would ask if there is an appliance on scene, answer would obviously be no so I would reply "Negative we will keep responding no CFS appliance on scene!"

Just get into them and highlight the risks and how unprofessional it looks!

rescue5271 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2008, 07:30:42 AM »

Its a big problem right across the state and in all service's and one that will only be fixed when someone gets hurt.I know of a memberr in the service who report to another brigade that his members where getting dressed on the back of an applinaces as it was doing 100kms down the road to a fire...The captain of that brigade took offence and the group officer kicked the rear tail of the member for reporting it to the captain. So what can you do when the group officer does that......

Pipster · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:00:28 AM »

Exercise your democratic right, and vote the Captain / Group Officer etc out....but depending upon the people within the Group or brigade, you might get a replacement who is the same.....!

Anyone not wearing the right gear for the situation should be told - and told by anyone...after all, under OH & S legislation, we are all responsible for our own, and others safety..no chain of command involved....

I have quietly taken people aside from other brigades and Groups and "suggested" that they put on particular gear....one guy in particular wasn't too impressed, but put on the safety vest, before starting to direct traffic.....

Within my own brigade, we encourage a culture of wearing the right gear in all circumstances. Only rarely does anyone have to be told to put the right gear on...an when they do, it is normally because they have forgotten to put the gear on, rather than can't be bothered wearing it...(eg the driver, who has been sitting in the cab for the last few hours, gets out of the truck to help someone drag a hose up the hill, and forgot to put the helmet on...)

While telling people to put the right gear on / wear the right stuff sounds really easy, I understand it can be difficult - particularly for say a newer, inexperienced member, telling the Captain or GO to wear the right stuff....

Perhaps a way around it is start from the bottom - get the fire-fighters to start wearing the right stuff...on the way to a call out, make sure they are dressed in the right gear...if not, make light hearted comments and encourage them to wear the right stuff - eg "I can't take you anywhere without dressing you!" Obviously pick your target. If you start getting the fire -fighters to wear the right gear, and work you way up to the Captain.....

I know many people wander round with coat open on the fireground,particularly when the fire is small, & not doing a lot....I went to a fire late last year, to take photos. The fire was moving very slowly, and with a very low flame height. But, because it was a fire, I was fully kitted up (lucky I picked a camera I can use with gloves on...one of the important features when selecting a camera!)

I got myself to one side of the hill, and started to taking photos...fire still puttering along, not doing a lot. Without warning, the wind changed direction, strengthened, and within about 5 minutes of that occurring, the fire was crowning on the opposite side of the hill....so it doesn't take much to go from a nothing fire, to OMG!!!

To put simply, you gotta wear all the right gear, all of the time......

Pip
Pip

chook · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2008, 04:01:35 PM »

Pip I found that by getting my guys to wear the right gear & look professional usually embarrasses those in neighbouring units who don't - I've been told that by members in those units

Its taken 12 months but now the guys even say "we look good next to them".
But it takes constant vigilance, and you are right start with the new guys - it does rub off!
cheers

F.B.R.T · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2008, 09:11:16 PM »

Gee, If only a few captains of surrounding brigades down this way could read this post, they might lead by example and show up for calls WEARING PPE and if it wasn't asking too much of them BRING A filtered FIRE APPLIANCE ALSO!!!
That's my 2 cents worth.
Cheers!!

Sarge · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:37:08 PM »

Quote from: F.B.R.T on January 28, 2008, 09:11:16 PM

and if it wasn't asking too much of them BRING A filtered FIRE APPLIANCE ALSO!!!
That's my 2 cents worth.
Cheers!!

That usually comes in handy doesn't it

rescue5271 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2008, 04:46:03 AM »

May be those staff that read these may look at doing something about captains/officers not doing it by the book...................

Cameron Yelland · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2008, 06:11:05 AM »

Quote from: F.B.R.T on January 28, 2008, 09:11:16 PM

Gee, If only a few captains of surrounding brigades down this way could read this post, they might lead by example and show up for calls WEARING PPE and if it wasn't asking too much of them BRING A filtered FIRE APPLIANCE ALSO!!!
That's my 2 cents worth.
Cheers!!

I know how you feel!

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2008, 11:28:06 AM »

Quote from: rescue5271 on January 28, 2008, 07:30:42 AM

Its a big problem right across the state and in all service's and one that will only be fixed when someone gets hurt.I know of a memberr in the service who report to another brigade that his members where getting dressed on the back of an applinaces as it was doing 100kms down the road to a fire...The captain of that brigade took offence and the group officer kicked the rear tail of the member for reporting it to the captain. So what can you do when the group officer does that......

Yeah its a real problem Blinky, i go by the book and get dressed at the station before hopping on the truck isnt there meant to be a rule called No Uniform No Truck or something along those lines

Plus theres another real problem of brigades often picking up volunteers just a few hundred metres away from the station and letting them get dressed on the way to the incident just because they didnt make it to the shed on time