Author Topic: Seaford Responses  (Read 28673 times)

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2007, 09:29:49 PM »
that is my understanding we run it that way out here even with the SES as rescue if its in our RESCUE area then we take primary with CFS suporrt how ever if it is NON SES task for example assisting with a tree down in CFS area even though our SES area is quite large and covers a lot of CFS area we act as a suport resorse.

If its a rescue job in a CFS brigades area, its their primary call.
Quote
please correct me if i am wrong but isnt the primary brigade the one that is resposible for that area unless it is a RCR where rescue is required.

Dual response area's  makes it an over-complicated situation .

Not really, each brigade should have its *own* area.
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

sesroadcrashrescue

  • Guest
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2007, 10:14:41 PM »
ok how eer we are RCR here and there are CFS around us that are not rescue as well as MFS who are not rescue and we respond in to there area all the time and what i ment by our area covers a lot of CFS area is refering to stormdamage not RESCUE.

as i siad my understanding is that the RCR crew has primary for a va unless on arrival there is no entrapments then they can hand it back to the "local" crews

Offline CFS_Firey

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,250
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2007, 11:26:12 PM »
In the CFS "Primary" means "In your area" and "Support" means "In another brigades area".
If you are a rescue brigade doing a rescue in a neighboring brigades area, that is a support call, not a primary call.

Offline Alan (Big Al)

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,609
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • CRUMPETS
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2007, 11:28:48 PM »
Ha ha CFS_Firey yuo beat me to it was just about to say exactly the same thing.
Lt. Goolwa CFS

sesroadcrashrescue

  • Guest
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2007, 11:33:43 PM »
thank you for your corection to that point with that does it work the same for inter agency or would it be more the CFS is primary and so are the SES or what????

Offline CFS_Firey

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,250
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2007, 11:47:07 PM »
Ha ha CFS_Firey yuo beat me to it was just about to say exactly the same thing.
Well, you know what they say about great minds... :P

thank you for your corection to that point with that does it work the same for inter agency or would it be more the CFS is primary and so are the SES or what????
It would be primary for both agencies - no different to if you attend an incident with SAAS or SAPOL...

Offline mattb

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2007, 12:05:40 PM »
Quote
thank you for your corection to that point with that does it work the same for inter agency or would it be more the CFS is primary and so are the SES or what?

I'm not sure exactly how the SES incident reporting system works but if you go to an MVA in Freeling CFS area, Freeling will fill out a primary CFS incident report, any other CFS brigades in attendance will fill out a support CFS incident report, and SES will fill out their own primary SES incident report (because it is is your primary response SES area).

Don't confuse primary and support CFS areas with anything to do with SES, you have your own primary SES area (I would imagine this is marked on a map in your LHQ) and the CFS have their own primary responses areas - the two need never be compared.

Offline canman

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2007, 08:51:38 PM »
It is a known fact that many rubbish fires end up being structure fires due to wheelie bins and/or industrial bins pushed up against the building.If its Seaford brigades area they can send two appliances if they want to :evil:

You can't just respond appliances because you want to. There are response plans that need to be followed (especially in the Mawson Group). Sending 2 appliances to a rubbish fire in case it involves a structure is a bit of a cop out. With that theory you better send 8 appliances in case that structure happens to be an A class risk.

Deal with the job you have and not what it could be. The least amount of 15 tonne priority 1 appliances running red lights on the road the better.
Extinguish this.......

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2007, 09:00:56 PM »
As I keep saying people always send two appliances You never know that rubbish fire may just be the Simpson's tyre fire......

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2007, 09:07:53 PM »
Quote
As I keep saying people always send two appliances You never know that rubbish fire may just be the Simpson's tyre fire......

totally agree, pager messages dont tell you everything...adelaide fire cant see the fire via live video feed   :mrgreen:

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2007, 10:52:44 AM »
As I keep saying people always send two appliances You never know that rubbish fire may just be the Simpson's tyre fire......

But when you have two brigades going... you already have two appliances.

Oh and make sure you respond atleast a 3rd alarm to everything that *could be* something more.

How often does the scheiße hit the fan? Certainly not often enough to warrant a panic every call. Deal with what you have, not what 'might be'
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

pumprescue

  • Guest
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2007, 02:09:53 PM »
So why does any station have more than one truck, no point having more than 8 members either, because the 2nd appliances never needs to respond, how about when your 2nd truck gets on the road standing down the furtherest responding appliance, so they can get back and cover their area, thats the only reason we have dual response.

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2007, 02:23:23 PM »
Quote
So why does any station have more than one truck, no point having more than 8 members either

quite simple. its volunteer. hence people can say No, which means you need more than probably twice the capacity of a truck to cover it.   6 seater truck....good to have 12 people available for that.  SFEC's are designed for this.

More than one truck?  there have been times where there have been multiple incidents in ones own response zone...oh and lotsa poeple really dont want to do Change of Quarters all the time lol...There is also reasons for having particular appliances in particular area's if you unaware of that.

I would not want to see a Type 2 Pumper at a scrub fire.  Asset protection for them,  but not for Knocking down the fire.

pumprescue

  • Guest
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2007, 02:34:30 PM »
Really, get outta town, i thought we all had nuffa 34's.  :wink:

I am aware of why we have certain trucks, ahhhhhhhhhh screw it, I can't be bothered........

Offline mattb

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2007, 02:58:49 PM »
There seems to be a definate division here, you have a few people that know what response plans are and follow them to the letter, and then those that believe they should respond two appliances to everything.

I can see why some brigades would like to respond two trucks to all calls, and in many cases I would love to as well. At least then more people are getting a run to a job and it might even settle their Lights and siren fix for the week, but it's just not necessary in 95% of jobs to treat it like a full blown 3rd alarm incident and flood the scene with trucks and people, it makes us all look unprofessional and disorganised.

How many 'Domestic Fires' are you responded to that are actually goers, or even require more than one hose line, probably less than 5%.

The SOP's outline the standard response to an incident, if you follow that you can't go wrong, if the job type is not in there then treat it as a single appliance response.

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2007, 03:17:38 PM »
I think i might have a theory on why there are so many different ideas.

How far is it from Morphet Vale to it's surrounding brigades?
and these large brigades that follow SOP's like religion how long from the pager until you get a truck on the road?

Offline mack

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2007, 03:25:43 PM »
bittenyaka - it doesnt have anything to do with that i dont think.. from my experience there are two types of brigades...

1/ follows SOPs for standard responses, standard crewing, out the doors in a timely manner and defaults when they need to...

or

2/ does whatever they want, goes everywhere priority one even if its just bob in the QAV 30minutes after page, go whether they have 1 or 12 crew crammed into the truck & are lucky if they go anywhere in 20minutes who cares about defaulting..


end of the day, there are brigades that do the right thing (and thats what it is called when you follow SOP and provide a correct & reasonable response to an incident) and then there are brigades that do what they want... it has been said in many other threads, end of the day the OIC of an incident needs to justify there actions, and that includes stop calling or responding over the top resources.

Offline mack

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2007, 03:28:15 PM »
How far is it from Morphet Vale to it's surrounding brigades?

also, worth noting..

SOPs actually state the number of appliances!!! not number of brigades, so i think this point is mute. Others have said, if a closer resource can go mobile then another respond app can always take a  stop call..

Offline canman

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2007, 04:02:08 PM »
bittenyaka - it doesnt have anything to do with that i dont think.. from my experience there are two types of brigades...

1/ follows SOPs for standard responses, standard crewing, out the doors in a timely manner and defaults when they need to...

or

2/ does whatever they want, goes everywhere priority one even if its just bob in the QAV 30minutes after page, go whether they have 1 or 12 crew crammed into the truck & are lucky if they go anywhere in 20minutes who cares about defaulting..


end of the day, there are brigades that do the right thing (and thats what it is called when you follow SOP and provide a correct & reasonable response to an incident) and then there are brigades that do what they want... it has been said in many other threads, end of the day the OIC of an incident needs to justify there actions, and that includes stop calling or responding over the top resources.

Nicely put Mack. Simple when you look at it that way.
Extinguish this.......

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2007, 11:07:49 PM »
Ok that post might have come out completely wrong and didn't work. Sorry

Lets talk about Alarms mainly here. Why is the SOP 2 appliances ONLY? and NOT anything you can get. This time give me good reasons and not poxy "we look like dads army" or " it isn't safe to drive"

I spoke about this with other members and the general consensus was the point of an alarm is that it should detect FIRE hence until you are on scene you assume the building is burning so if enough crew are avalible for 2 trucks TAKE them.

I know if there was any of my brigades numerous alarms that one day was a going job i wouldn't want to wait for more appliances when they could already be on the road.

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2007, 11:17:28 PM »
Quote
point of an alarm is that it should detect FIRE hence until you are on scene you assume the building is burning so if enough crew are avalible for 2 trucks TAKE them.

Quote
as a going job i wouldn't want to wait for more appliances when they could already be on the road.

Totally Agree. 1st appliances sitrep to comm's base and oncoming appliances, should cover everything including priority for further appliances and stop calls.

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2007, 05:36:27 AM »
Lets talk about Alarms mainly here. Why is the SOP 2 appliances ONLY? and NOT anything you can get. This time give me good reasons and not poxy "we look like dads army" or " it isn't safe to drive"

I spoke about this with other members and the general consensus was the point of an alarm is that it should detect FIRE hence until you are on scene you assume the building is burning so if enough crew are avalible for 2 trucks TAKE them.

Ok mate, you want to talk about alarms. 99% of the time AFA's are nothing. There is a reason they are nicknamed 'code calls', because of how often the stop message is merely the AIRS code given for the reason of activation of alarm and nothing more. The number of real fires that are AFA's are so very small.

Two applainces is more than enough to merely investigate an alarm sounding with no 000 calls. If you ring Adelaide Fire and they tell you that there are multiple calls for fire and smoke visible, then ok, take the second truck. But for an initial alarm call with no 000 confirmation, you simply don't need more than two trucks.

Even if you arrive, it turns out to be something and you don't think you can handle it with only your two appliances  then get on the radio, upgrade it to a 2nd alarm. In the meantime though you can be doing a whole lot of good with the two crews already on the ground.

Not to mention that the majority of alarms are Smoke Detectors, designed to detect the presence of smoke and also, steam, aerosols, smoke from burnt foodstuffs etc etc... If it was a thermal, of flame detector then yeah, they are designed to detect FIRE and are less likely to active when there is no 'real' fire present.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 05:39:50 AM by 6793264 »
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline JC

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 417
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2007, 11:56:38 AM »
What about VESDA alarm systems, interstate taskforce here we come. (SARCASIM PEOPLES) trying to lighten the mood. :-D :-D :-D
Roxby Downs CFS
Lt 2
BHP ESO

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2007, 12:02:37 PM »
trying to lighten the mood. :-D :-D :-D

thanks mate..forum needs it   :-)

how bout a dedicated helicopter for fixed/private alarms  :roll:
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 12:06:23 PM by Dezza »

Offline mattb

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Seaford Responses
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2007, 12:44:20 PM »
Quote
How far is it from Morphet Vale to it's surrounding brigades?

10 Minutes to Seaford, 12 Minutes to Happy Valley, 6 Minutes to Christie Downs MFS

Quote
and these large brigades that follow SOP's like religion how long from the pager until you get a truck on the road?

06/07 financial year avg response time = 04:12 - why do you ask and what does this have to do with how many trucks are responded ??


Quote
Lets talk about Alarms mainly here. Why is the SOP 2 appliances ONLY? and NOT anything you can get. This time give me good reasons and not poxy "we look like dads army" or " it isn't safe to drive"

I spoke about this with other members and the general consensus was the point of an alarm is that it should detect FIRE hence until you are on scene you assume the building is burning so if enough crew are avalible for 2 trucks TAKE them.


Well over here alarms are treated as a structure fire and result in a two appliance response from the primary station. If the support station gets an appliance on the road then the third most distant appliance will respond priority two.

So for example - a fixed alarm activates at the Vales Aged Care facility, Morphett Vale 24P responds first, then Happy Valley Pumper, 15 seconds later Morphett Vale 24 responds - in that case Happy Valley Pumper would downgrade to priority two because Morphett Vale 24 is going to be a lot closer, if it took Morphett Vale 24 two minutes to get going then they would be downgraded to priority two because H/V Pumper would be the closer of the two. This is at the discretion of the OIC and is coordinated on VHF and works well.

Obviously this doesn't take into account the two MFS pumps that will also be responding, that's because we have constantly been told not to include MFS into our response plans. Seems very silly but because they may be tied up at their own incident another job in CFS area will be a lesser priority for them and therefore they may not attend.