Author Topic: Helmet Camera  (Read 37332 times)

rescue5271

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2008, 05:33:55 PM »
No diff,from anyone taking a photo,can't see a problem as long as you are doing your job and that you respect when asked to turn it off....

Offline mack

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2008, 05:40:23 PM »
IC/Manager would definately have that power mate. - Some people might not like to be filmed (meaning members of other agencies).. It could be quite intimidating / 'off putting' to try and do your job with a camera lens in your face..
well.... actually, an ambo (of any rank) would not have the power to 'order' you (a firefighter) to turn it off, or remove it. Im sure if they asked nicely though ;)

Would be interesting if you filmed a SAPOL STAR squad officer at a land search tasking...from my limited knowledge they do not like their faces in pictures.

mmm well since there the control agency for that task, i would suggest as they call the shots, they could tell you to turn it off...

i think people are missing the point though, my purchase of this camera is with the intent of using it at fire scenes.... not for getting close & personal with casualties at VAs, etc

Offline 6739264

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2008, 05:46:44 PM »
So you're going to take it off for every job but fires?
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline mack

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 06:01:35 PM »
well considering it just clips into a bracket, i cant see a problem with that...


but why would you have to take it off? surely just not turning it on is enough ;)

Offline bittenyakka

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 07:46:20 PM »
i'm sure most of the footage you get will be edited ut as it might be only 10 min worth watching after a house fire?

Offline Benji

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2008, 08:21:52 PM »
Maybe SAFECOM should issue these cameras to all IMT and other key personal. That way there is a video trail of who did what when why.. just need to store the memory cards somewhere.
Ben(B2)
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Offline OldOne

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2008, 09:11:15 PM »
c
i'm sure most of the footage you get will be edited ut as it might be only 10 min worth watching after a house fire?

Just remember, any person with a camera could be treated as a Media representative and can be excluded or restricted at any incident as the IC sees fit.    How tempting is it to get close up footage of media restricted areas and then be offered a payment to supply it to a media organisation.   Personally the cameraman is treated as a freelance operator and can have the camera and himself removed especially if the fire or VA becomes a crime scene.

Just because the camera is small and less obvious it still produces the same "News" footage results for the media.

OldOne.

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Offline RescueHazmat

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2008, 09:31:25 PM »
IC/Manager would definately have that power mate. - Some people might not like to be filmed (meaning members of other agencies).. It could be quite intimidating / 'off putting' to try and do your job with a camera lens in your face..


well.... actually, an ambo (of any rank) would not have the power to 'order' you (a firefighter) to turn it off, or remove it. Im sure if they asked nicely though ;)

IC was for Incident controller.. However, even if it was say an Assist ambulance call and a SAAS manager or even paramedic/Ambo was in charge, if they asked you to turn it off, I would do so. :)

-And not missing the point, was answering a genuine question someone raised in regards too whether or not they could be asked to turn off their camera.  :wink:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 09:46:08 PM by RescueHazmat »

Offline bittenyakka

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2008, 09:41:45 PM »
just use common sense if some one doens't want it filmed ok and think about what fotage you publish.

if i take fotage of a fire that does turn ut t be a crime scene i may not publically show it but it might be usful for training or just a reccord of yur FF career.

Offline mack

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2008, 09:52:12 PM »
OldOne - not tempting at all mate, when you consider the possible repurcussions ;) when your talking about an incident that may be 'restricted from the media' then of course that is where you use common sense, and take the camera off your helmet...


we're all forgetting, that we are all (well most) sensible people im sure... people know what is the right & wrong thing to do in regards to recording of incidents, and publishing of material.


Offline bittenyakka

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2008, 09:54:04 PM »
how many incedents hve people been to that are off limits to the media for non sftey reasons?

Offline RescueHazmat

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2008, 10:04:46 PM »
Every incident is unsafe, just the varying level of which often differs.. - Basic examples, structure fires where media aren't allowed in the structure to film after the incident, HAZMAT incidents where media aren't allowed within a certain proximity, drug/clan lab incidents. - Quite a few mate.

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2008, 01:01:56 AM »
IC/Manager would definately have that power mate. - Some people might not like to be filmed (meaning members of other agencies).. It could be quite intimidating / 'off putting' to try and do your job with a camera lens in your face..
well.... actually, an ambo (of any rank) would not have the power to 'order' you (a firefighter) to turn it off, or remove it. Im sure if they asked nicely though ;)


Would be interesting if you filmed a SAPOL STAR squad officer at a land search tasking...from my limited knowledge they do not like their faces in pictures.

mmm well since there the control agency for that task, i would suggest as they call the shots, they could tell you to turn it off...

i think people are missing the point though, my purchase of this camera is with the intent of using it at fire scenes.... not for getting close & personal with casualties at VAs, etc


whilst everyones intentions here may be pure in nature - how do you differentiate between someone who uses the footage for interest Vs profit (ie: selling to the media) - and if the cameras become commonplace, complacency will set in and there will be people who invariably do take advantage of it!

as for paramedics asking you to take it off - I'd look at you and think "what a t@sser" and keep working!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :-D

but seriously - what does having a record of some fire or other job achieve?  unless you're some sick character with a sexual fetish for fires (and prob lit half of the ones you turn out to) - I can't see any point in it for anyone!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 06:29:47 AM by boredmatrix »

Offline chook

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2008, 05:56:49 AM »
With all of the issues going on within the emergency services, the biggest point of discussion you guys can come up with is "Helmet Cam"?
Remember another thread about Emergency vehicle driving & the video that ended up on YouTube?
An incident that could have been handled internally - ended up all over the place & the guys facing official action!
And yes the coordination agency (SAPOL) could tell you to turn it off & if I saw someone with a Helmet Camera at an incident that I was OIC at I would be asking for its removal - the way I see it there is just no need (I get annoyed with all of the "unofficial" photos people take with their mobiles :x). Now if you guys want to re-live your "glory moments" at fires, so be it! But really is it that nessesary?
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Ken
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Offline littlejohn

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2008, 06:56:03 AM »
. . . (I get annoyed with all of the "unofficial" photos people take with their mobiles :x)

Why is that Chook? Are you talking about general pics of incidents that brigades keep for training/records, or something else??


Offline bittenyakka

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2008, 07:24:42 AM »
hold on I know sufers who take pictures and footage of them surfing and downhill mountain bikeriders who tape caeras on their helmets because they like doing their hobbie/sport. so how is us taking footage/pics of jobs a bad thing?


and chook do you want all the pics to be staged shots with clean ppe compleatyly missing the more private side of us?

Offline OldOne

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2008, 07:51:45 AM »
hold on I know sufers who take pictures and footage of them surfing and downhill mountain bikeriders who tape caeras on their helmets because they like doing their hobbie/sport. so how is us taking footage/pics of jobs a bad thing?


and chook do you want all the pics to be staged shots with clean ppe compleatyly missing the more private side of us?


No problems with people taking pictures of them self doing fun things,  but taking pictures of OTHER people in situations where they may not want to be photographed, is an other story.   Any recognisable close up of the public you must have their names and permission before it can be distributed, even for training purposes of new members.

I take hundreds of photos of SES involvements and training BUT each photo is examined closely for PPE and other possible picture problems before they are released for general distribution and as training aids.  This is very hard to do with fast moving video but each video frame can be taken out of context and used as a photo to be published.  Remember electronic photos and video can be distributed widely in a very short time.

OldOne.

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Offline chook

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2008, 08:56:29 AM »
hold on I know sufers who take pictures and footage of them surfing and downhill mountain bikeriders who tape caeras on their helmets because they like doing their hobbie/sport. so how is us taking footage/pics of jobs a bad thing?


and chook do you want all the pics to be staged shots with clean ppe compleatyly missing the more private side of us?

Depends what it is, what I'm talking about is the shots at MVA's that are taken and sent to who knows where. If you look on the Commercial media web sites they actually ask for shots / News stories.
And I'm sure at least some of us have had the "please explain" from state HQ when the media release images to the public of Emergency Services personnel not quite wearing the correct PPE, using unusual methods etc. I know I have  :-(.
So now you have more video/ film being taken, transmitted to who knows where & as OldOne said in what context.
Yes we do take photos of incidents for the unit (not that many of MVA's - unless its unusual) & yes I agree you need the private shots of brigades/ units doing stuff. But I stand by my initial comments, I certainly don't want people filming the team in action (at very close range)without controls in place - I wouldn't want to see/ hear myself on YouTube using that four letter word for example :wink:
cheers
Ken
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Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2008, 10:28:48 AM »
If you think you're such a bad operator that you can't stand the thought of someone having video of you working, don't you think it's about time you tried to tidy up your act?

There are sections of the Adelaide-Crafers highway that are under constant surveillance from multiple fixed cameras.  Should we be requesting that TSA turn these off when we respond there?  And how about going to an alarm in a premises that has security cameras?

While I wouldn't want every incident I go to recorded, I can see huge benefits in training and record keeping.  There are very few videos of fire fighting used in CFS training, and most (if not all) of those videos are from interstate or overseas, and often come with the lecturer saying "We don't do it quite like this in the CFS, so ignore the way they approach that...".

As for people selling video to the media, if there are no privacy concerns, and the footage doesn't show anyone doing anything wrong, then how is it a bad thing?  We're community based emergency services, why shouldn't the community see what we do?

Offline mack

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2008, 10:48:57 AM »
well this thread certainly turned into a bit of a joke....  :roll:

same story with every thread on this board though... theres always someone willing to bring it down (myself included at times). I mean lets face it, this has veered away from intelligent discussion, to just plain dumb comments...

Quote
unless you're some sick character with a sexual fetish for fires (and prob lit half of the ones you turn out to)

Quote
Now if you guys want to re-live your "glory moments" at fires, so be it!

Quote
How tempting is it to get close up footage of media restricted areas and then be offered a payment to supply it to a media organisation.


as stated before, use discretion, and the same rules in regards to registration plates/names/faces/permission that you apply to normal still cameras at incidents & training [and dont try to filtered me/us that still cameras arent in extremely wide use for incident photography]... and it could prove to be an invaluable training tool.

how many brigades have watched videos of black tuesday, canberra, etc for training? dead man zone? the "christmas tree video" etc etc etc.... some of them may be 'proffesional' videos, but they still use actual incident photography to demonstrate situations.

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2008, 12:26:03 PM »
well this thread certainly turned into a bit of a joke....  :roll:



seriously mack - lets get it in perspective.  If I turned up to work with a camera attached to any part of my body, I'd be told to take it off.  If a SAMFS or SAPOL member turned up to work with a camera attached to any part of their body - they'd be told to take it off.

.....and some of you CFS volunteers seem to have issues relating to not being taken seriously as professionals!!  turn it up!!



the biggest issue surrounding this topic is not so much the issue of actually using a camera as opposed to who controls the recorded footage!  if the footage of CFS intellectual property and operations is taken whilst in the "employ" (SIC) of SACFS - does not the footage then belong to the CFS?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 12:30:07 PM by boredmatrix »

Offline Zippy

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2008, 12:32:36 PM »
I would believe the people who are wanting to use these camera's only want to use them for internal brigade use for training purposes and debriefs of some sort.

rescue5271

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2008, 12:42:12 PM »
As a person who takes lots of photos I can tell you that you are allowed to take photos/video in/on/any place that is a public place/public access area.. Having said that you need to becareful of where you point and take the photo and who is in that photo....

Offline mack

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2008, 12:52:41 PM »

seriously mack - lets get it in perspective.  If I turned up to work with a camera attached to any part of my body, I'd be told to take it off.  If a SAMFS or SAPOL member turned up to work with a camera attached to any part of their body - they'd be told to take it off.

SAAS & SAPOL is a slightly differant situation in my opinion.... however i know of a couple of SAMFS empoloyees that do have these at work. And uses it for there own records of the incident.

the biggest issue surrounding this topic is not so much the issue of actually using a camera as opposed to who controls the recorded footage!  if the footage of CFS intellectual property and operations is taken whilst in the "employ" (SIC) of SACFS - does not the footage then belong to the CFS?

cant answer that one for you mate... but you only have to look at the "SACFS promotions unit" and the vol mag, to see them actively encouraging photography of incidents and training to be submitted... so i can only presume they back the concept.

but anyway we can both continue to have our own opinions on this, and lets "get it in perspective"... your looking at this from a SAAS point of view, where you are constantly in the face of casualties, up close and personal at every single incident... if you were recording this, or someone was standing there just recording you, then yes... id say there was a problem.

I think the discussion is probably dead, we can all bang on, on both sides of the fence on this one all day if we want too..

at the end of the day though, unless CFS put out information forbidding the use of cameras at incidents, im going to use it at fire incidents to get footage... for both our brigade records, and for use in training. and yes, ill use my own discretion as to when it is appropriate/innapropriate.


[my last input on the topic ;) ]

Offline chook

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Re: Helmet Camera
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2008, 07:48:25 PM »
Don't have to clean up my act :wink: Just don't like being filmed!
You all know my opinion so this is my last post on this too
cheers
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 05:48:27 AM by chook »
Ken
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