Author Topic: Urban Pumpers  (Read 37914 times)

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2008, 02:02:52 PM »
In my opinion,rear mounted pumps put crews in the path of traffic,not good.

If anything they improve safety on the fireground as well as the situational awareness of the pump operator. Park in the fend off position, and nothing states as pump operator, on a road you have to stand at the back the whole time you are operating the pump.

The cheaper hose reels do not release easy like the hanney ones,so by the time you get the hose out youve lost alot of energy.

If you get that tired pulling a hose reel, how about looking at your general fitness? I know that it's hard some times - try pulling hose from a 24 with the reels' gear box rooted.

The BA cylinders are bad for our backs,way too heavy when we could use lighter ones.

They're not 'bad' for our back, they are just heavy. If you are wearing your set correctly, the weight should be distributed over your hips rather than your back. Once again... personal fitness?

The Cabs are very high and the centre of gravity is more dangerous than a proper designed fire appliance.

The trucks are high because most of them are are 4x4, as already stated here. Look at the SAMFS pumps, even they have a few steps up into hte cab. You don't want NSWFB coach-style trucks do you?

I think a committee (1 staff and 4 vollies) within each region to design and determine where new appliances go within their own region would be a good idea.  we are all adults and im sure those on the committee are mature enough to see their region as a whole and not be their to benefit themselves.

It doesn't matter how mature you are, but it is simply impossible for people from a certain brigade to see things from anothers point of veiw. I have never seen a running grass fire in a paddock, how can I possibly imagine what equipment/stowage/truck setup would be ideal? Its the same with people from rural areas commenting on pumpers. What there needs to be is a state committee made up of a number of people from as many areas as possible. Perhaps 20+? The problem then, just like on this board, is separating the people who know what they are talking about from the oxygen theives.

Yeh yeh thats right ,because once you become an officer of senior rank or a groupy all your brains get sucked out ,your years of experience evaporate into nothing more than unintelligeable,disjointed thoughts and your no good for anything other than sitting in a air-conditioned vehicle or base ,making dumbass decisions that will ultimately lead to the demise of the whole organisation!!

Yeah pretty much. ;)
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Bagyassfirey

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2008, 02:52:50 PM »
Quote
It doesn't matter how mature you are, but it is simply impossible for people from a certain brigade to see things from anothers point of veiw. I have never seen a running grass fire in a paddock, how can I possibly imagine what equipment/stowage/truck setup would be ideal? Its the same with people from rural areas commenting on pumpers. What there needs to be is a state committee made up of a number of people from as many areas as possible. Perhaps 20+? The problem then, just like on this board, is separating the people who know what they are talking about from the oxygen theives.

U are so so so right here couldn have said it any better myself...as for the running grass fire doesnt matter how many litres of water u have on board u always just about get it out and u run out of water and away it goes again lol  :-D

Mod Note: Fixed Quoting
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 03:34:48 PM by Mike »

Offline Cameron Yelland

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2008, 05:41:12 PM »
Numbers.....

The way i was thinking was each region would design trucks to suit their own region.  No more one size fits all - it doesnt work!  Granted it could cause issues on inter region strike teams maybe but what can you do?  I understand what you are saying, its hard for a basic rural firefighter in region 5 to understand what an urban fringe brigade in region 1 needs or vice versa.  But as a region i would imagine everyone would have some understanding as to what a brigade would need especially if you had a good range of people from around your region.  Brigades that believe they require an upgraded truck could put their case & facts to the committee to try and get the upgrade.

Zippy.....

The 34P needs to remain 4WD, maybe just need to specialise it more and stop trying to make them do so many jobs.  With what you suggested maybe could be developed into a light/medium pumper like the 12's but maybe larger to accommodate the larger tank. Although that would possibly bring you into the same category as the current medium pumpers?  Maybe the Izuzu 550 would be a good chassis? instead of the current 900 used in the medium pumper range.
Compton CFS Brigade
Captain
(Formally Comp00)

Offline SA Firey

  • Forum Group Officer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,967
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2008, 11:46:45 PM »
The 550 is no longer available and the FTR900 is based on the same Sitec 220 engine as the FTS750's the only difference being it has a 7 Speed trans, and is a lower profile chassis but well suited to the Type 2's.

The MFS 500 series appliances are suffering the same problem weight carried.

Images are copyright

Offline chook

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,191
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2008, 08:23:33 AM »
The article in this mornings Advertiser mentions the Estimates committee & that ten appliances were being repaired in Adelaide & that the trucks may have been "under engineered". If your looking for it's on page 8 I think.
One of the other issues you have is the bigger the capacity, the heavier the truck. Mack for example produce an excellent 6x6 chassis, however if you don't load it up to near 20 tonne it's too hard on everything (including the occupants). If you replace the suspension with air bags, then you introduce a possible weakness in cross country work.
Maybe your right Cam a purpose built 2 wheel drive Urban pumper is the way to go. However the other thing you have to remember is that it's not good having vehicles sitting around and not being used regularly, as things like rubber seals etc deteriorate (the Army learnt this thru bitter experience). So you would have your urban pumper doing most of the work, your Rural appliance - not so busy etc. And other vehicles (like a purpose built rescue & a 14) as well, requiring servicing, regular maintenance etc.
I guess it's what the community is prepared to pay & what your service is prepared to sacrifice to meet the needs of the brigades.
In other states as you are aware they solve this problem in very different ways.
Anyway I think I've said enough :wink:
cheers
Ken
just another retard!

Offline pete

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2008, 06:07:05 PM »
Glad some people know what they are talking about,for the others stick to guessing or bullshitting if thats whats going to carry you through life.

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2008, 06:27:35 PM »
Glad some people know what they are talking about,for the others stick to guessing or bullshitting if thats whats going to carry you through life.

This site is a festering hotbed of literary genius,......I'm sure the spies from Hallmark cards and Bumper stickersareus, constantly monitor this site for these pearls, look for that one on a hotted up ute going sideways, near you soon! :-D
Just Another Filtered Fireman

pumprescue

  • Guest
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2008, 07:28:57 PM »
I think the 34P's are fine for what most people need, although they are a little under-engineered, and they also need to look at the plumbing to get more out of the pump, its under done for what it is capable of. I understand the new 34P's are coming out with a 2 stage pump ?

As for the pumpers, well, the NSW Type 2 is better than what we were getting I guess, but still a little under done in some area's. Still don't understand why we have to develop our own trucks all the time, whats wrong with each agency piggy backing each others orders, need a pumper, tack onto the MFS order, MFS need a 4x4 pumping appliance, tack onto a CFS order. anyone needs a rescue tack onto the SES order.

Offline pete

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2008, 12:57:22 AM »
We deserve better,so cut back two or three trucks a year and spend the money building a better product that will see the test of time and have many photos taken of.No more farmers trucks thanks,the big picture remember...

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2008, 08:05:37 AM »
Quote
No more farmers trucks thanks,the big picture remember...

hahaha, thats the best ive heard yet! good on ya pete.

Offline Bagyassfirey

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2008, 10:30:58 AM »
Quote
No more farmers trucks thanks,the big picture remember...

hahaha, thats the best ive heard yet! good on ya pete.

ah come on bit of twitched 3 gauge wire will hold anything lol  :-D

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2008, 10:53:05 AM »
oh but farmers know how to secure with rivets properly!!!

Offline pete

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2008, 06:53:55 PM »
Old McDonald had a farm....

Offline Cameron Yelland

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2008, 05:38:25 AM »
*Cue banjo here*
Compton CFS Brigade
Captain
(Formally Comp00)

Offline big bronto

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2008, 05:23:17 PM »
Volunteers should not have their say in the build up of an appliance this is up to the body builders but they should have one page justification for why they need an urban pumper whether it is a medium or heavy, if your just full of hopes and dreams and have not fact to back up this document then deal with it. Once you have justified this appliance you can work through with CFS to what stowage you require on this appliance for you brigade to take in hazmat, rescue and any other specialist equipment.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 05:54:11 PM by big bronto »

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2008, 05:30:30 PM »
A CFS designed 4x4 Pumper On-Appliance Hazmat Stowage Layout would be nice to see...doesnt exist yet  :cry:

It takes numerous hours to cater for it, all done by volunteers...

Offline pete

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2008, 05:36:03 PM »
It helps if you have some cad drawings before you start,instead of building it as you go like some Engineering Companys.

Offline big bronto

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2008, 05:52:33 PM »
Zippy if you read what i put on, i am saying justify the truck first then sit down and discuss what gear you have and work with it. These days it is easy because most trucks being built are a standard pumper design like the CFA/NSWFB type 3 and 4, you can work off history from cfs they will look at something like this.

Offline pete

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2008, 09:47:00 PM »
So let me get this straight,the people who are involved with the design and distribution of Government Fire Vehicles are not the ones who put their lives on the line using this equipment.Funny that.You cant polish a turd,but you can roll it in glilter.

Offline firefighter_sa

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2008, 11:26:58 PM »
Quote
So let me get this straight,the people who are involved with the design and distribution of Government Fire Vehicles are not the ones who put their lives on the line using this equipment.Funny that.You cant polish a turd,but you can roll it in glilter

Pete

I canot speak for the MFS - but I believe this is wrong.  I know of only three people within the technical services side of CFS whom are involved with truck designs are all volunteers as well.

Please dont take me wrong - but the CFS is becoming a changing agency and trying to please all is difficult.  Look at the stats 10 years ago majority of our work was rural fires, but today with the urban sprawl - Structure Fires and Vehicle accidents are becomming our No 1 response.......

With this in mind our rolls have become quite diverse - and I except the need for specalist vehicles for some brigades. 

I just dont like - and this is maybe the wrong term but "Blackmail" by brigades using media to benifit there causes, its just causes problems for all concerned

Its my views

Wayne
Wayne Ellard

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2008, 09:44:16 AM »
There is no new for CFS to have 4x4 pumpers,its time people noted that a pumper is a pumper for urban work...NSWFB did have some 4x4 pumpers but thye had lots of problems and ended up costing loads of money to run and service...

Offline pete

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2008, 11:21:12 AM »
Havent got to the stage where im holding a sign up out the front of a building yet.The public sees the urban brigades running around in 34ps and alot of them think that they have an inadequate Fire Service.Plus its saying we only do bush fires and that a MFS truck should be needed as well.

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2008, 11:49:23 AM »
time for the so called media unit to get out there and show what cfs really do rather than just in the bushfire season.....

Offline RescueHazmat

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2008, 12:10:33 PM »
time for the so called media unit to get out there and show what cfs really do rather than just in the bushfire season.....

Now there is the icing for the cake!!

How can the public perceive the CFS as anything other than a Rural service when they only hear about us in Summer?

Other than those in areas directly served by CFS, actually have an idea about what the CFS do year round. Most city slickers assume the CFS only come out of the woodwork on the 1st of December..

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Urban Pumpers
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2008, 12:44:48 PM »
so lets do a city wide COQ for a day to get our image out.  :-D

 

anything