Author Topic: new level 3 gear (LION) (Read 85960 times)

Mike · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2005, 07:31:52 AM »

After much waiting I finally got measured for the new gear. I have to say it is quite comfortable to use, even if its a little heavier than nomex.

There's a very good range of sizes as well.

Apparently no contract has been set down as to the maintenance yet. Although Lion are asking that they inspect it at least once a year. During the time that the gear is away they are investigation getting some of the MFS Nomex for interim use.

The answer they gave about cleaning of the gear was a little vague, but ran along the lines of "you can do it yourself, but......"
Basically they are thinking about cross contamination of personal clothing washed in the same machine, washing powders etc. etc. There was also mention of abrasion caused by varioius machines, and that people might try and tumble dry it.

It is effected by UV light, but there have been no specific tests done. The rep gave examples of brigades in NZ that have had gear in service for the last 8 years with no sign of degregation. They had also seen gear left out in a shed under a skylight that lasted less than a year......

Average life span: 6 years (expected to be much longer for CFS, with expected average use and when gear stored in lockers etc.)

As for the whole Nomex V Proban thing. Group has decided that all those being issued with PBI will retain their nomex as rural gear. Any further rural needed will continue as was (proban pants & nomex coat (with L2 liner for cold weather))

Anyways, I really do like the look and the feel of it..... cant wait till it arrives for the real test!

fire03rescue · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2005, 10:45:33 AM »

I am pleased to hear that you like the look and feel.
My question is
Is it hot after a while ?
Did you try to do any traning in it ?

Mike · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2005, 11:54:21 AM »

Unfortunatly they only had one set that was the "real deal". All the others were nylon based sizing sets.

I didnt get a lot of time (about 2 minutes if that!), as they were pushing to get ~50 people measured up.

I think it will be marginally warmer, but nothing to be overly concerned about. It did feel more breathable than the Nomex + L3 liner though, probably because the new liners are Gortex based.

Didnt get to train in it unfortunatly......

Some other interesting bits:

- CFS reflective = yellow with silver centre
MFS reflective = orange with silver centre
This was at MFS request to destinguish between members.

- Sets will be supplied with a velcro name tag (still to be decided how to mark it)

- Big orange tab at the bottom/back of coat to signify liner has been removed (similar for pants)

JamesGar · « **Reply #28 on:** March 02, 2005, 07:02:42 PM »

Just wondering if anyone knows whether the new PBI stuff is water proof or shower proof?

Mike · « **Reply #29 on:** March 03, 2005, 09:04:00 AM »

Quote from: JamesGar

Just wondering if anyone knows whether the new PBI stuff is water proof or shower proof?

Gortex was originally designed as breathable wet weather gear.... as it evolved, hybrids incorperating nomex were released for fire applications. Its one of the best types of wet weather gear on the market. Hard wearing, comfortable, and actually keeps the water out!

In short...... yes. The PBI itself may hold water (that i dont know!), but the liner will definately stop you getting wet......

ferretboy · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2005, 08:11:19 AM »

it must drive the proban people bat**** to hear people still say that it washes out- every proban garment in service in australia has a care instructions label saying to use regular washing with a sythetic detergent (synthetics detergents are product like Bio-zet and other) but to not use soap based washes or bleach.

Under these condition, washing improves the proban treatment, and makes the garment more comfortable.

The only question to ask about protective garments is how they have been tested- the only independant laboratory in the world (ie not funded by clothing or fabric manufacturers) who conduct Thermo man clothing tests is the University of Alberta in Canada.

Ask to see Lion apparrels completed garment test (it's not a requirement of the australian standards 4821 and 4967, but is described as an optional performance test)

corocfs · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2005, 12:02:11 PM »

Quote from: Mike

As for the whole Nomex V Proban thing. Group has decided that all those being issued with PBI will retain their nomex as rural gear. Any further rural needed will continue as was (proban pants & nomex coat (with L2 liner for cold weather))

so... regardless of whether we are at a rural or urban incident, chances are we arent going to be all wearing the same gear, it may just be my opinion, but if i saw a crew dismount from a truck and they are wearing two or possibly three differant kinds of PPE i would think it was a bit un-professional

Firefrog · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2005, 12:03:22 PM »

Thanks Ferretboy another case of this forum helping to dispel entrenched beliefs. After your post I found this.

http://www.rhodia-proban.com/press%20releases/probanfacts.pdf

I am now wiser

Good times · « **Reply #33 on:** March 04, 2005, 05:12:20 PM »

An interesting point about perception, to be honest, when I see a SAMFS crew rock up, with all people wearing the same gear, I think, gee they look the part and look like firefighters, when I see a CFS crew rock up I cringe!! I see pants with silver stripes, pants with yellow stripes, pants with day/night stripes. Same with Jackets, I see The FARA Nomex style turnout gear, I see a hundred different styles of proban. It doesn't mean the crews are any better or worse, but its the perception of what you see in front of you. I think the trouble comes back to CFS brigades and Groups having control over what is purchased, and some of the people doing the purchasing that are still in the old CFS scrimp and save frame of mind. Go for the cheapest at the time. My group went against that years ago, its all nomex, no matter who you are, and if you want a helmet, its a Cairns 660, no matter who you are. So every firefighter that arrives at our jobs looks the same. Also, for those who are going to say, but not everyone is that rich, I will have you know, niether are we, but the Nomex is lasting 3 times as long as proban, so the cost is negligable.

Now I wait for all the "interesting comments"

JamesGar · « **Reply #34 on:** March 04, 2005, 06:57:48 PM »

I agree GT. It's about time we voice our concerns about professionalism. I've stated it with appliances, but I beleive it go much further. We train and respond in a professional manner as volunteers in our communities. I think we should be supported and respected in our appearance as well. State wide wear same PPE, drive similar vehicle (Appliance standards and marking standards). I know this might be a bit of a dream, but you can always hope!

mattb · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2005, 05:17:54 PM »

Here is a pic of the PBI Gold that we trialed in February 2004, our guys at the time thought this was not the best out of the three types we trialed, but still better than what we have none the less.

The extra pockets inside the coat and the hook for keys are a good idea, however that was all part of the spec given to the manufacturers by CFS / MFS. It is going to be obviously warmer to work in than what we currently have but I'm sure the benefits of increased protection are going to outweigh the negatives, having said that it is not an easy task to get the liners in and out though, give yourself a good five minutes.

Apparently the final product is slightly different to what we had in the trial.

Good times · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2005, 09:02:49 PM »

I am glad they get custom fitted, the person on the left needs to grow a bit!!

Mike · « **Reply #37 on:** April 08, 2005, 01:27:11 PM »

Well it appears Ill have to wait for a bit longer before I get to play with the new gear. Group changed their mind, and we are now getting 1 set only in the entire group, instead of 15 sets.

I wasnt at the last meeting, but have been told about the following.....

Strangely enough, the decision was not souly based on the budget. It would seem that there are a few problems with the "administration and maintainance" side of things....

ie. How often does the gear get cleaned/inspected?
Who decides?
What happens is any gear is deemed to be stuffed?
How much is it going to cost?
etc etc......

There are now concerns being expressed about degregation due to UV, and storage methods. Apparently the MFS are experiencing difficuly with how their turnout pants are stored, its causing creasing and fractures in the fabric......

So, now we wait......

Good times · « **Reply #38 on:** April 08, 2005, 09:45:50 PM »

So why bother getting it at all! Or is this going to go an a roadshow of the group. My brigade is trying to get 3 or 4 sets a year for the next few years, starting with the shiftworkers who turn out a lot, then work our way through the BA list. Rather than have a massive bill at the start.

Mike · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2005, 02:45:56 PM »

I dare say I dont have the full story..... am just passing information along. After all I wasnt at the meeting.

Mike · « **Reply #40 on:** May 06, 2005, 10:50:02 AM »

Ok..... So the story changes again.....

Apparently we will still be getting the new gear now. There are a couple of conditions put on the order, but we should still be getting it.....

At this stage info and theories are as follows:

- State will most probably manage the gear.
- Inspection and cleaning will be required once a year.
- Cleaning will cost $23.30 + freight, a 3 day turn around is expected
- If you believe the gear need to be cleaned at any other time:
- Cost as above
- Ring State and notify of gear needing to be cleaned and details
- State will send a tempory replacement set of gear
-> Members set returned for cleaning
-> Members set returned to brigade
-> Tempory replacement returned to state
- Should a member leave it is proposed that the old set of gear be returned to state, and that the cost of that gear be credited to the group budget. Therefore, when a new member starts the correct set of cear can be obtained at effectively no extra cost.

- Its made in China, bit sad it cant be done in Aust...
- There are currently 300 sets on the water for CFS, and of these only 20 sets have been ordered for brigades.

and that be the latest report from group.............

CyberCitizen · « **Reply #41 on:** May 06, 2005, 03:25:36 PM »

Storage of the gear.

I heard that it must be kept in an air tight dark storage area.

Can anyone confirm if this is true?

Good times · « **Reply #42 on:** May 06, 2005, 05:41:16 PM »

Probably in an ideal world, also we were told not to "bunker" the pants over our boots, they were to be hung so as to not crush the fabric.

Mike · « **Reply #43 on:** May 07, 2005, 04:20:39 PM »

It should be stored out of direct sunlight...... and MFS has found problems with keeping them over the boots. But they do not need to be stored in an airtight area.....

strikeathird · « **Reply #44 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:05:16 PM »

Thinking of the gear stowage method at STC for compartment!

Mike · « **Reply #45 on:** June 03, 2005, 01:23:37 PM »

OK... Time for the latest update

The CFS order of PBI has arrived in Aus... and is currently sitting at Wingfield getting "CFS" Printed on the back.....

The $29 maintenance costs include transport, which is to be arranged by LION.....

R1 will hold stock of about 20 Sets as pool stock.....

The gear IS (contry to prior comments) allowed to be used for training....

strikeathird · « **Reply #46 on:** June 08, 2005, 01:29:05 AM »

I swear sometimes it seems like things go in slow motion.

Im sure i heard that there were brigades that were meant to be receiving this before the end of this financial year......?

Mike · « **Reply #47 on:** June 08, 2005, 11:50:13 AM »

Ahhhh, almost...... it was ordered on the condition the money came out this years budget!

strikeathird · « **Reply #48 on:** June 08, 2005, 01:23:52 PM »

Oh ok.

So even tho purchased with this years money, doesnt mean we will get it this financial year?

Mike · « **Reply #49 on:** June 08, 2005, 04:11:27 PM »

Well that was the deal our group made..... region were worried that all the gear was being sent and no-one was going to buy it.....

Author Topic: new level 3 gear (LION) (Read 85960 times)

corocfs

Good times

Good times

Good times

Good times

strikeathird

strikeathird

strikeathird