Author Topic: What the SES does  (Read 28909 times)

Offline CFS_Firey

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What the SES does
« on: August 10, 2005, 06:07:06 PM »
There has been some interesting discussion in other threads http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=75 about what the SES does, and when the CFS uses them...
Some people expressed views that the CFS might be taking over some of the roles that the SES traditionally played, and not used them when they should.

So I'm interested in how other brigades use the SES... Do you respond them as back up, (eg traffic control), how close are you to them (eg, do you ever train together), and do you see a need for the SES to have more of a role?

strikeathird

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2005, 08:46:43 PM »
I hadn't been at a job with the SES for a LONG time (ever infact), till that big storm hit a month or so ago.  Even then, seemed like there were more CFS members tarping roofs, and sandbagging.

Altho, being a more urban brigade, they arent used often. 


OOppss, I remember, only time(s) were 2 jobs, both car VS house.

Offline mengcfs

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2005, 04:34:01 PM »
In our area the SES is responded when the CFS is (for VA's anyway) generally for traffic. They are a RCR unit but numbers are dwindling so the CFS and SES work together on that as the CFS has members trained. Usually for storm/flood damage both servcies are responded. The only thing that SES does solo is water rescue, other than that CFS do it or both services.
Adam

Offline Mike

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2005, 08:11:08 AM »
SES are the primary RCR for our area. Most of the jobs they do are attended by both services, and this has happened for a number of years. The general idea is that we are there for the same reasons in the end, and none of us should be upset about being asked to lend a hand (if it does.. why are ya in the service?).

There have been a few times where members have tried to paint them as the 'enemy' but that gets jumped on pretty quick.

Anyways, their main roles for our area:

RCR, Vertical, Landsearch, Storm, USAR, Water Ops (support only)....

Offline CFS_fire32

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2005, 12:25:31 PM »
Up until a couple of years ago (3 or 4), we were a joint CFS/SES "unit" in which the majority of people were CFS and SES members.  We would jointly crew rescue apliances as necessary for MVA's.
However a split occured and this caused a bit of trouble between the two services, in terms of people being able to commit themselves between the two. Fortunately, CFS retained most memebrs, but SES lost quite a few, consequently the reason why we have so many CFS RCR trained crew. However, today we still have several joint members and this does not present many, if any problems for the crew.

Our situation today, with SES as descrbied by Mike is similar to that of 'mengcfs'.  SES are the primary rescue tender for our area, however being that our CFS has a number of trained and experienced CFS RCR members (about 7 or 8 I think), we carry a set of RCR gear on our 24P.  It is very old and very heavy, second hand gear, but there have been a couple of times when we have come very close to using it.  Hopefully, we are getting another second hand set of gear very soon.  I have heard it is much newer than the antiques we have, and most importantly much lighter.  However, I would like our brigade to eventually get a Holmatro Rapid Intervention set - one day anyway.

Our aim - which has been put in place and is nearly complete - is to get our CFS brigade in the "official" position of secondary rescue response, in which if SES have trouble providing a full crew, which sometimes happens, especially during the day time, then a CFS RCR member(s) will make up the rescue team.  Also, if CFS arrive on scence before SES and their ETA is greater than 5 minutes, then we (CFS) will begin the rescue and SES on arrival will work in with their RCR crew and 'very nice' equipment to make sure that the rescue continues to run smoothly and efficiently.

Quite recently, we have had a couple of rescues where both our services have done exactly this - worked togther smoothly and efficiently.  Also, we have done some joint RCR training and definitely look to do much more of it in the very near future.

At the end of the day, we both share a common goal of providing the best service we can to the community and if this means we both share the rcr role to a certain degree, be it that SES are still the primary tender, then I don't think there is anybody who will disagree, especially myself.

In todays world, when the people willing to become RCR trained crew are getting harder and harder to find -like most thiings- it is impecable that services put their past and differences behind them and work together as a team, no matter what colour overalls they are wearing.

Offline oz fire

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2005, 12:38:26 PM »
Sensational Post!
At the end of the day, we both share a common goal of providing the best service we can to the community

Cheers to the two services and to the individuals to forget the colour of the uniform and the differneces and to put their communitiy and families first!

Well Done :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

rescue5271

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2005, 07:59:08 AM »
We dont have SES in Naracoorte we did along time ago have a joint ses/cfs station but a few problems came up and all members became CFS members so no more SES. SES have there place and maybe in large urban area's they do a great job but has been the case over the last few years there's and our number's are falling.

There are a number of very strong SES units around the state who work very well with CFS and yes they all have the same job in mind as we do..

Wagon 1

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 11:51:56 AM »
WEll can I just ask a dumb question Adam from Meningie, why, as a tax payer am I paying for CFS to run 2 services. Why are they still trying to prop up the SES in a small town that probably doesn't have loads of people to spare. I see a lot of that, and it seems that we pay for a whole lot of vehicles, uniforms and equipment for the CFS to do it anyway, what gives there?

Offline Mike

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2005, 12:09:57 PM »
Hold up a second there..... CFS isnt running 2 services, the state is.
Even if we had 1 service, the same number of vehicles would be required.
Dont forget that these people are just as dedicated to the service and the community as everyone else, and shouldn't be pesecuted as such.

The following link contains thoughts on combining the services:

http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=214.0\

Offline kat

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2005, 03:31:16 PM »
Do you think we'd need the same number of vehicles?

Tailem doesn't have an SES, the CFS does RCR and assorted other stuff (no, not boat stuff) but we only have two appliances same as, for example, Meningie CFS. We have double the population and a higher SFEC risk rating. But manage with two multi purpose vehicles...
There's a difference between genius and stupidity -- genius has it's limits.

Offline Mike

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2005, 03:36:58 PM »
I think we would.... maybe not when looking at command vehicles, but definately trucks. This conclusion is based on knowing what both services in our area carry. There is no way we would be able to fit the gear required for all types of taskings the services do.

After all we all have enough trouble fitting what we want to carry at the moment.

rescue5271

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2005, 12:17:18 PM »
Does it matter how many appliances ses has?? as a tax payer I could ask the same question of say some CFS hills groups that have way to many command cars and brigades that each have a over kill of RCR gear when they are not a primary RCR brigade.

Time some people came out to the country and see how country brigades do things and hey it would be nice to have a RCR brigade just around the corner but we are in the real world here..

corocfs

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2005, 02:31:08 PM »
rescue5271 - differant areas have differant risks and require differant standards of cover... fact of the matter is a lot of hills brigades do more than four times the amount of MOST country brigades - and therefore it is only logical for more equipment to be placed in these areas.

rescue5271

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2005, 10:06:29 PM »
That may be true but from what I have read in stats for the past 3 years my brigade and others in the country attend more jobs than some city brigades......

corocfs

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2005, 11:41:40 PM »
thats why i said "times the amount of MOST country brigades"

correct me if im wrong bill but your from naracoorte?

from what i understand in naracoorte station at the moment is a brand new 34, a 2 year old pumper and a fairly new stand alone rescue appliance.

better than a lot of hills/city brigades

last year you did 141 jobs, morphett vale did 347 with a 24 and a 24P??

im not saying you dont deserve the number of trucks you have.. i think you definitely need them there. just saying that you cant possibly compare our response areas here to yours out in country areas. there are to many variables...

rescue5271

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2005, 07:41:44 AM »
Firetruck, at the prsent we have a 5 year old pumper that is slowly rusting away and has cost lots of money to keep it going,we have a 12 month old 34 and our stand alone rescue is 3 years old. Yes we all have differnt risks and we all fight fires different,as for the appliances in Naracoorte we have a urban risk/a large rescue risk and our large rural risk with in the group we have had to work hard for our stand alone rescue as we have been to jobs where all the gear has come of the unit just to do the job and our next back up for rescue is 50 kms south at penola and 45 kms north at padthaway and 65 kms west at lucindale..

By the way the last time I looked morphet vale had 3 appliances and they do have back up closer than we do...

corocfs

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2005, 08:24:52 AM »
believe morphett vale's 3rd truck the 14, was funded entirely by the brigade

Offline TillerMan

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2005, 11:35:46 AM »
Don't forget morphett 0.4 if they still have it. :mrgreen:

Offline kat

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2005, 12:44:54 PM »
Nope 0.4 is at Meningie now :-)
There's a difference between genius and stupidity -- genius has it's limits.

Wagon 1

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2005, 01:36:03 PM »
Population equals incidents, Incidents equals equipment, but anyway, what does this have to do with the SES?

corocfs

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2005, 09:16:37 PM »
Population equals incidents, Incidents equals equipment,

i reckon its more like; population equals risk, risk equals equipment

Offline oz fire

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2005, 10:04:35 AM »
i reckon its more like; population equals risk, risk equals equipment

Tell that to Roseworthy who has a tiny population and then has the college, glass factory and alike - risk has nothing to do with population.

Maybe Stirling North - they have a small population but then the risk of a power station and prision! I guess there is a reasonable population in the prison though!

Millicent and the HUGE factory down there - small population, huge risk!!

These days risk and popualtion have very little to do with each other.

Dollar wise theres more risk in the Stirling North response area than the whole of the Sturt Group - does that mean Stirling North get the equivelant budget, resourcing etc  - no - it'c called risk management and that is how we determin resources for what ever service!
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

Wagon 1

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2005, 10:08:34 AM »
No, its called SAMFS have millions of dollars of gear down the road, we will just use them instead of doing it properly.

But again, we digress.

Offline oz fire

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2005, 10:13:44 AM »
Digressing,

The majority of SAMFS millions goes on paying the highest f/f wages in Australia.

They appear to always have new equipment as they are a small service - tiny compared to interstate and compared to CFS - plus when they build a truck it gets delivered in Adelaide so gets media coverage, when we deliver a truck, build a station it happens anywhere in the 96% of SA that we look after.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

Toast

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Re: What the SES does
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2005, 12:52:51 PM »
Well, getting back to the topic, the only time I have ever seen the SES turn out to anything here int he hills was to a tree vs. house an hour after we had started working. There isnt much around here for them to do apart from USAR if needed and their search fucntion if it was ever needed...

 

anything