Author Topic: what is going on with cadets?  (Read 28503 times)

strikeathird

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2006, 10:44:13 PM »
I was at my first MVA rescue at 16...  Spose some people aren't as bothered by it.  Personally I think it is up to the individual at jobs like that, if they don't feel ready, don't pressure them...  However, at the same time, if they seem ready and able, and you see the after effects of 'Post Traumatic Stress" or such symptoms on a person, be the first to offer assistance / spam counscelling.


I have seen alot of things in different forms of Fire and Rescue, and other agencies I have been involved in...  And I don't care what people say, no matter how often, or how many you go to, jobs like that always affect you in some way...   Even if that means thinking about it afterwards...   The little things all add up.  Which is why we have departments like SPAM...  Don't feel scared, or like a wuss if you need to use them.

Offline Master of Disaster

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2007, 10:37:56 PM »
Hi Guys and Girls,

SES cadets become operational at 18 but fire fighting is more dangerous then being an ses member!  Thanks 8-)

Offline SA Firey

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2007, 08:58:59 AM »
Hi Guys and Girls,

SES cadets become operational at 18 but fire fighting is more dangerous then being an ses member!  Thanks 8-)

SES always out on a limb :lol:
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Offline Cadet1234

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2007, 11:02:34 PM »
i am a cadet at the happy valley brigade and i would love to go to burn offs and stuff like that but apparently you have to have level 1 or something to even be allowed to go to a burnoff

Offline 5271rescue

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2007, 08:19:14 PM »
That is correct,may be you guys should do BFF1 cadet units in the south east do it....
blinky bill
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Offline fireblade

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2007, 12:37:19 AM »
 The whole cadet thing is a sticky issue especially meeting all the legal stuff to make sure youíre covered i.e. following procedures, police checks, and minimum levels of adult to cadet numbers. CFS is not unique as I use to coach a team of kids in soccer and the club went through the whole thing before CFS did, but in saying that I think it is a good thing as the protection of children is paramount.

In my opinion and many of my peers, I think 16 is too young for a fire fighter I think it should be 18. Also you should limit there exposure to nasty prangs and structures that have fatalities for a year or two (20, 21).

 I use to think the same as some have said ďI went to those sorts of jobs when I was young and Iím fineĒ. A few years ago I saw a mate of mine get a depressed by all the nasty jobs over the years and it just got too much.

So when you have experts like Jill Scott saying itís to young and a lot of fire fighters that are paid and CFS that double their exposure to nasty jobs saying itís too young. In my opinion I think we should listen.

I had a young F/F challenge me once when he arrived on our second appliance for fire cover and I told their OIC to hold the crew there. I said to him youíll get plenty of time to see the gore Iíve been doing it for 15 years and I donít go out of my way to see it. Plus it looks unprofessional when you've got heaps of guys all over the scene when they dont need to be.

Offline 5271rescue

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2007, 07:27:35 AM »
I would have to disagree there,at if a cadet has come up from cadets to the main brigade we should let them attend some call outs at the direction of the brigade captain or any other officer.Having said that members under 18 years old should not attend MVA's.on the first appliances may be on the second and help with traffic duty away from the action.Remember in this day and  once young people hit 16 they want to be involved in something that is going to give them a buzz or a high. TOO many times we are saying to cadets you can't do this and you can't do that  Yes I agree we have to protect them and we also have to make sure we do all the legal stuff but at the end of teh day if cadets dont get a chance to become a firefighter at 16 then there is no point in having cadets at all..This is my view only;;;;; So people you should give these young people ago and let become firefighters at 16 with a mentor from the brigade. I thinks sometime we forget that in the city areas there is lots of fun stuff for cadets to do but once you get out to the country there is not much. Cadets are our future of this service and in many country towns they are the next leaders of local brigade's .
blinky bill
my view only

Offline RescueHazmat

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2007, 12:09:21 PM »
I would have to disagree there,at if a cadet has come up from cadets to the main brigade we should let them attend some call outs at the direction of the brigade captain or any other officer.Having said that members under 18 years old should not attend MVA's.on the first appliances may be on the second and help with traffic duty away from the action.Remember in this day and  once young people hit 16 they want to be involved in something that is going to give them a buzz or a high. TOO many times we are saying to cadets you can't do this and you can't do that  Yes I agree we have to protect them and we also have to make sure we do all the legal stuff but at the end of teh day if cadets dont get a chance to become a firefighter at 16 then there is no point in having cadets at all..This is my view only;;;;; So people you should give these young people ago and let become firefighters at 16 with a mentor from the brigade. I thinks sometime we forget that in the city areas there is lots of fun stuff for cadets to do but once you get out to the country there is not much. Cadets are our future of this service and in many country towns they are the next leaders of local brigade's .

I guess its an area for debate, however I disagree with disallowing the members (as you mentioned being 16+) to MVA's .. - There are many roles they can undertake without having to be in the 'thick' of it..  When a majority of us started we all attended those incidents at that age, why should it be different now?

I believe if the person, and the officer think that person is capable, then it shouldnt be a problem... - & like I said, they don't have to be in the middle of the action..

MVO

Offline chinabone

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2008, 12:14:09 PM »
well no postd for ages. so i thought id dd 1 lol. well my first incident ever was a mva with a fatality i saw the cars but did not c the body. I think it should be up to the individual if there up to seing it or not  were all diferent

Offline Robert-Robert34

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2008, 04:33:53 PM »
I didnt get exposed to my first fatal accident until November 2007 and was right in the thick of the action doing fire suppression this is because Kalangadoo is a non RCR brigade

As what blinky has said theres no point of having cadets if they cant respond to callouts after turning 16, if you continue to wrap the young fire fighters up in cotton wool by not allowing them to gain experience or respond to large incidents they are gonna lose all interest   
Kalangadoo Brigade

Offline chook

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2008, 05:00:39 PM »
Robert you said went to you first fatal in 2007 - and then said you can't see a problem sending under 18's to jobs.
Sorry mate, but based on what? There is a reason SES has an 18 and above rule - we just like you guys are involved in potentially dangerous & horrific stuff. We don't have the time or manpower to control cadets at serious incidents. Its hard enough with trained but inexperienced adults.
We used to have cadets in my unit - not any more. Why? More time and effort was spent looking after cadets, than training the adults.That might sound harsh but adults are the rescuers, if I wanted to manage kids the I would be a scout leader :wink:
Having said that if several brigades/ units want cadets then form a cadet unit & yes VMB does have a cadet program you can tap into.
cheers
Ken
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Offline Robert-Robert34

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2008, 05:54:35 PM »
Robert you said went to you first fatal in 2007 - and then said you can't see a problem sending under 18's to jobs.
Sorry mate, but based on what? There is a reason SES has an 18 and above rule - we just like you guys are involved in potentially dangerous & horrific stuff. We don't have the time or manpower to control cadets at serious incidents. Its hard enough with trained but inexperienced adults.
We used to have cadets in my unit - not any more. Why? More time and effort was spent looking after cadets, than training the adults.That might sound harsh but adults are the rescuers, if I wanted to manage kids the I would be a scout leader :wink:
Having said that if several brigades/ units want cadets then form a cadet unit & yes VMB does have a cadet program you can tap into.
cheers

The 18 and above rule is a good idea Chook but its really up to the OIC to determine if someone is or isnt capable of responding to a major emergency such as a RCR's cause its not a pretty sight to respond to 
Kalangadoo Brigade

Offline chook

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2008, 06:13:07 PM »
Yep, horses for courses & I agree its up to the Brigade/Unit boss.
And I have some idea on how bad jobs can get :wink:
Ken
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Offline Robert-Robert34

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2008, 12:52:46 PM »
Yep, horses for courses & I agree its up to the Brigade/Unit boss.
And I have some idea on how bad jobs can get :wink:

Ditto Chook lots of jobs can go from bad to worse after arriving on scene
Kalangadoo Brigade

rescue5271

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2008, 01:40:16 PM »
Getting a little of track there robert,cadets should be given every chance to do the same as the main brigade when it comes to training,cadets are the future and I think afew years ago we lost the chance to give cadets the same training as everyone else. I dont have a problem with cadets going to burn off's ONE ON ONE with a senior I think you will find that they can now do this as long as they have done BFF1. there is only so much that we are allowed to teach our cadets and in some cases some members would liek to see us turn cadets into scouts and we are not a scout unit but the CFS cadet unit....

we should welcome with open arms anyone who wishes to join cadets and we should support and show them the ropes but above all we should encourge them to move up the ranks rather.

Offline chinabone

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2008, 11:51:03 AM »
yea im actually still the cadet capitian for my brigade but the pepole coming up i know they still got about 2 years most of them till they are 16 (aloud on the truck).But i  wouold not feel safe with them even in 2 years.
In saying that my first incident was before i was 16 and aint 16 til end of next month.in saying that i have been a cadet for about 5 years so i know my stuf done my level one work in a team grn and a couple other courses and am doind my supress wildfire very soon.Im also a very respected member in my brigade.and organise/help with some traning activites for the newer senior members

Offline Dusty

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2009, 01:04:11 PM »
Hey i know i just started on this website but with the cadets that i'm in we might end up training with the firerys because we only have 2-3 cadets turn up each week. :|

Offline Alan (Big Al)

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2009, 01:09:17 PM »
We have 2 cadets that train with us.

But they normally only do that once they get within 12 months of becoming a FF
Lt. Goolwa CFS

Offline chinabone

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2009, 12:29:05 PM »
I think that senior cadets,What we call the ones who have done bff1 and are 15 or above should be training with the seniors.Obvisoully with pearent consent.I have noticed the 2 cadets we have brought up to senior training have excelled in there training.There is suposebly new cadet guidelines comeing out soon wich may alow cadets to wear ba and do live fire training in and array of other things
cheers Bayden

Offline wombat34

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2009, 01:58:44 PM »
Think you would find that Cadets would fall under the same rules as non BA trained members in what they can/cannot do with BA. ie no actual drilling, just don/doffing. Then there is the issue of needing to be 18 for BA as well. Yet another can of worms
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Offline whitecloud

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2009, 03:10:55 PM »
The whole cadet thing is a sticky issue especially meeting all the legal stuff to make sure you’re covered i.e. following procedures, police checks, and minimum levels of adult to cadet numbers. CFS is not unique as I use to coach a team of kids in soccer and the club went through the whole thing before CFS did, but in saying that I think it is a good thing as the protection of children is paramount.


Exactly this. Part of the reasoning for the age restriction on BA is the structure of the spine of a growing child. While it is all well and good to say they can cope with the physical loading and the psychological issues, the fact remains that we are in an age where the medical community recognises the benefit of looking after the spine in early life.

Bit of fun, all well and good, asking them to wear weight more often and the CFS is aware of the load of litigious BS they are opening themselves up to.

On the age and attendance debate, its entirely subjective. I also was lucky enough to begin attending callouts early, and some of the accidents gave me a darn good shock and certainly reinforced why its stupid to speed or drink drive. In some cases, kids could probably deal with the lesson.

However, in my experience i have also met people at age 18 who were hopeless, and I'm not actually sure WHY they would attend calls, and constantly made a fuss over blood and needed medical treatment / peer support almost every time we went to something. The only reason they were still allowed to attend was some degree of tolerance, as a result of relations with others.

Some people will feel ready earlier, and there's nothing to say they wont benefit from the experience. However, they should be at least a little limited. I can't honestly see much of a role for a brand spanking newbie in the thick of a bad vehicle accident, perhaps standing back on fire cover. (No criticism for any of us that have been put in that position, just stating ideally a slow breakin would be better.)

Same goes for strike teams, all too often there are people with insufficient experience for larger incidents present. I have heard of a couple of examples a few years ago where cadets were taken on strike teams, one probably caused more kick up than the other (and from what it sounds like, with reason! ) Cutting teeth on smaller incidents is most certainly the way to go. That way, the brigade can check what is actually known, rather than be thrown in the deep end with someone they have to compensate for.




rescue5271

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Re: what is going on with cadets?
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2009, 08:22:30 AM »
It was great this week while working in other parts of the state for work to hear how strong cadets are in some area's in the HILL'S but it was also interesting to hear about the problems that they have about what cadets can or cant do. But brigades and groups all agree that cadets in rural areas are the future and we need to ensure that we keep them involved and active as long as we can....