Author Topic: New Rescue van for CFS (Read 89977 times)

big bronto · « **on:** July 20, 2009, 05:30:12 PM »

Peoples thoughts on this new Hyundai Rescue vehicle getting around for CFS?

Alex · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2009, 06:11:30 PM »

lame...

in a service where crews cannot be garaunteed, giong back to a stand alone rescue seems like a bad idea... also road crash rescue [time critical] should not be the job of a 'pod vehicle', unless it was constantly setup as RCR and only changed over to HAZMAT, but even then this seems a bad idea to me.

also, i think others have staterd it, but RCRs/VAs often turn into dang. sub. incidents... so does this mean the vehicle [and crew to load pod] wil have to leave scene and go get the HAZMAT pod???

Seriously what is the problem with just fixing up the 34s/34Ps to have some workable locker space...

Zippy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2009, 06:50:19 PM »

Quote from: Alex on July 20, 2009, 06:11:30 PM

lame...

in a service where crews cannot be garaunteed, giong back to a stand alone rescue seems like a bad idea... also road crash rescue [time critical] should not be the job of a 'pod vehicle', unless it was constantly setup as RCR and only changed over to HAZMAT, but even then this seems a bad idea to me.

also, i think others have staterd it, but RCRs/VAs often turn into dang. sub. incidents... so does this mean the vehicle [and crew to load pod] wil have to leave scene and go get the HAZMAT pod???

Seriously what is the problem with just fixing up the 34s/34Ps to have some workable locker space...

A brigade like Jamestown is a good example of how things should be...

34P Rescue
24P Hazmat

its just that, both of those appliances dont have "comfortable" stowage lockers..for everything + more.

Darren · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2009, 07:19:27 PM »

I can see the value as a hazmat only, but not for RCR, just as a hazmat it would free up heaps of room. Often Hazmats are long distance jobs so won't tie up a Pumper or 34P, but leave 34P's and Pumpers as the RCR vehicles.

Hair · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2009, 08:39:39 PM »

Why not all HAZMAT brigades have a purpose built tandem axle box trailer such as Strathalbyn and supply a Logistics vehicle to go with this. I'm sure some groups could warrant an extra Command/Logistics vehicle.
Would also be a cheaper option to maintain.

Hair

rescue5271 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2009, 10:42:23 PM »

Sorry dont like it, where is the crew protection on those long trips to a RCR or to a hazmat job

Did CFS just go out and buy these with out any consultataion from its members who have to use them?? Sorry CFS but it wont work in the country where a RCR or Hazmat briagde has to drive for a hour or more just to get to a job.....

There are some photos on OZFIRE of the van......

BundyBear · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:44:55 PM »

How the wheel revolves CFS tried this years ago Smithfield CFS was one brigade that had a rescue van the managers in town should just concerntrate on building better appliances. They're trying a van? Why cause its cheap!

pumprescue · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2009, 04:38:44 PM »

Rumour has it that the van can only just squeeze the barest of essentials and isn't carrying a full RCR kit. Also apparently the whole POD idea is out the window, so basically they haven't acheived anything.

Zippy · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2009, 06:18:49 PM »

http://failbus.com/

crashndash · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2009, 07:17:18 PM »

Quote from: Hair on July 20, 2009, 08:39:39 PM

Why not all HAZMAT brigades have a purpose built tandem axle box trailer such as Strathalbyn and supply a Logistics vehicle to go with this. I'm sure some groups could warrant an extra Command/Logistics vehicle.
Would also be a cheaper option to maintain.

Hair

can we please get the concepty of emergency vehicles and box trailers out of our respective heads.....its the 21st century. They are dangerous on the road, bad to work from an OHS perspective, and reinforce our half-arsed ness about dealing with emergency response.

If we need to have a Rescue Pump, then lets for heavens sake build one that takes the standard stowage. Its not that hard.

The vans have a place in support, particularly Hazmat, but honestly, if you were going to look at an RCR support vehicle, it wouldn't be the Try-undai. Try a dual cab Tradie type 4 x 4 with a slide out rear tray- useful for additional blocks, second pump, specialist tools or whatever u want

bittenyakka · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2009, 08:06:50 PM »

Quote from: Bill Corcoran on July 20, 2009, 10:42:23 PM

Sorry dont like it, where is the crew protection on those long trips to a RCR or to a hazmat job Did CFS just go out and buy these with out any consultataion from its members who have to use them?? Sorry CFS but it wont work in the country where a RCR or Hazmat briagde has to drive for a hour or more just to get to a job.....

There are some photos on OZFIRE of the van......

What do you mean by crew protection?

rescue5271 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2009, 02:15:59 PM »

There is no crew protection if one was to hit stock that are roaming around our country roads and I think its fair to say that any RCR brigade who has to drive long distance to a job might have the same feelings... Not sure how it would go in a MVA and what if any protection crews woudl have sitting on a bench seat in the back.... Thanks but I think a rescue appliance is better than a Tonka Toy.....

boredmatrix · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2009, 07:04:43 PM »

so based on that theory...all regional officers should be driving trucks not less than 10 tonne capacity in case they come across a kangaroo.....and so what about ambo's.....should they all be driving freightliner or kenworth ambulances of not less than 10 tonne capacity because of the risk of animal strike?

Seriously- at what point does OHS become cost prohibitive to operating a service because a couple of people are scared of kangaroos? SAAS have roo bars on their country fleet....the majority of which are...surprise surprise....VANS!

BundyBear · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2009, 09:20:09 PM »

The way CFS is going a lot of brigades struggle to get two appliances out the door so the van would go for rescue so where would the fire pump come from the next nearest brigade? also how far away is that brigade in some areas? A van is not an OHS&W issue but I say stick to pump/rescues at least you can react if there is a fire or fuel spill. We all know the real reason and its someone in you know what castle trying to create cheaper options instead of the right ones.

Also lets start getting the stowage right on these new appliances currently they are ordinary!

Darius · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2009, 10:20:47 AM »

although I am not in favour of the concept, actually that hyundai van does ok in the ANCAP crash testing: 4 stars, pretty good for a commercial van (and the same as the 100 series landcruiser). http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/_scripts/ancap_detail.php?IID=2733
both of which are quite a bit better than the nissan navara 4WD (3 stars which is extremely poor for a new vehicle these days).

Zippy · « **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2009, 10:35:18 AM »

Quote from: Darius on August 10, 2009, 10:20:47 AM

although I am not in favour of the concept, actually that hyundai van does ok in the ANCAP crash testing: 4 stars, pretty good for a commercial van (and the same as the 100 series landcruiser). http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/_scripts/ancap_detail.php?IID=2733
both of which are quite a bit better than the nissan navara 4WD (3 stars which is extremely poor for a new vehicle these days).

Would the pod system loaded in the van decrease its crash testing star rating???

bajdas · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:13:58 PM »

Quote from: BundyBear on August 09, 2009, 09:20:09 PM

The way CFS is going a lot of brigades struggle to get two appliances out the door so the van would go for rescue so where would the fire pump come from the next nearest brigade? also how far away is that brigade in some areas? A van is not an OHS&W issue but I say stick to pump/rescues at least you can react if there is a fire or fuel spill....

For an outsider, would you need to fill all the seats in both vehicles ? Why not place 2 or 3 in the fire appliance and 2 in the RCR van. Total crew at the incident still is 4 or 5 (same as currently) and you have the extra equipment on site.

Even the van will provide more crew / scene protection at the incident (fendoff position on the other side of the roadway) and possibly accelerate faster than a 24 truck.

BundyBear · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:03:37 AM »

Quote from: bajdas on August 10, 2009, 12:13:58 PM

Quote from: BundyBear on August 09, 2009, 09:20:09 PM
The way CFS is going a lot of brigades struggle to get two appliances out the door so the van would go for rescue so where would the fire pump come from the next nearest brigade? also how far away is that brigade in some areas? A van is not an OHS&W issue but I say stick to pump/rescues at least you can react if there is a fire or fuel spill....

For an outsider, would you need to fill all the seats in both vehicles ? Why not place 2 or 3 in the fire appliance and 2 in the RCR van. Total crew at the incident still is 4 or 5 (same as currently) and you have the extra equipment on site.

Even the van will provide more crew / scene protection at the incident (fendoff position on the other side of the roadway) and possibly accelerate faster than a 24 truck.

I understand what you are saying but personally I like a pump/rescue with a full compliment of crew, then you are only maintaining 1 vehicle not 2. Also at my brigade there has been occassions when we respond to an RCR and then on the way back to the station we are responded to a structure or another type of incident so therefore it is easier to manage crews and everything you need is available to you.

In my opinion the van is just a cost cutting tool if CFS was serious about rescue appliances with a rapid response capability why would they not look at a Ford F-350 at least that way you could mount a decent size pump and a 1000 litre tank on it as well as rescue equipment for MVA's.

Plus you have to say is this not just the big wheel turning around again I'm having visions of Smithfields old red rescue van and other brigades with Toyota 4x4's and trailers on the back.

Firefighters drive Fire Appliances

Alex · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:05:08 AM »

Quote from: Bill Corcoran on August 09, 2009, 02:15:59 PM

There is no crew protection if one was to hit stock that are roaming around our country roads and I think its fair to say that any RCR brigade who has to drive long distance to a job might have the same feelings... Not sure how it would go in a MVA and what if any protection crews woudl have sitting on a bench seat in the back.... Thanks but I think a rescue appliance is better than a Tonka Toy.....

Get a grip... im sure they could put a polybar or something else on it if need be... but honestly its no differant to a command car is it. I would think this sort of appliance would be more comfortable for distance driving than our current appliances anyway.

If we could see how much stowage would fit and if it would be accesible... i can see a place for these as HAZMAT vehicles. Id still tend to disagree with them being an RCR option.

There was a VicSES falcon ute getting around that looked like a decent RCR setup.......

Alex · « **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:07:21 AM »

Quote from: BundyBear on August 11, 2009, 11:03:37 AM

In my opinion the van is just a cost cutting tool

Of course it is!!!

Quote from: BundyBear on August 11, 2009, 11:03:37 AM

Firefighters drive Fire Appliances

And only fight fires?

There is a requirement for specialised vehicles also.

chook · « **Reply #20 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:45:20 PM »

The Ford F350/F450 was used in Vic as a rescue & had numerous problems including poor turning circle, excessive fuel consumption & overweight.
Your combined Pump/rescues (& I have seen them up close) are manual handling nightmares (especially the 24P)in regards to RCR. And if you want a rescue appliance you need to consider not just RCR, so it wouldn't matter how well you designed the truck to have decent off road capability, decent wild fire capability, decent structural capability & be a proper rescue - you need more than one vehicle.
I'm not sure the van concept is that great for rural areas, however a dual cab chassis with a decent pod (I'm thinking merc sprinters here) would be ideal as a medium RCR truck & still be cheaper than a full blown Rescue pump.
Other than that I echo Alex's comments

Zippy · « **Reply #21 on:** August 11, 2009, 07:42:21 PM »

Quote from: chook on August 11, 2009, 03:45:20 PM

The Ford F350/F450 was used in Vic as a rescue & had numerous problems including poor turning circle, excessive fuel consumption & overweight.
Your combined Pump/rescues (& I have seen them up close) are manual handling nightmares (especially the 24P)in regards to RCR. And if you want a rescue appliance you need to consider not just RCR, so it wouldn't matter how well you designed the truck to have decent off road capability, decent wild fire capability, decent structural capability & be a proper rescue - you need more than one vehicle.
I'm not sure the van concept is that great for rural areas, however a dual cab chassis with a decent pod (I'm thinking merc sprinters here) would be ideal as a medium RCR truck & still be cheaper than a full blown Rescue pump.
Other than that I echo Alex's comments

The pump/rescue concept has pretty much been perfected on the Type 2's (Mt Barker, Nuriootpa, Millicent, etc) that are far and few between....Trying to create a 34P Rescue Appliance and make it work well is a bastardisation of a Pump/Rescue.

Hazmat on a 34P is a OHS Nightmare...yet it is plainly overlooked, which i personally dont mind what so ever... EG: Over-drums have to be manually lifted above the crew deck swing door height.

Take a Izuzu 2WD chassis, 1500L Tank, Urban/Rural Pump (not rural/urban), A midship locker that you can see completely through...(use all the other space for the Pumper/Stowage)....and Ta Da. Pumper/Rescue'OR'Hazmat.

Edster · « **Reply #22 on:** October 07, 2009, 09:47:46 PM »

Whats happened to the van?

anyone got some news to shed on it?

firefighter21 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2010, 10:50:57 PM »

merc sprinters are a good idea for a rcr or hazmat vechile they dont have to be a pumper either as you can always send a 24P along with it but i think they should look at the SES new rcr vechile which is based on a merc sprinter that would be perfect for a rcr vechile and i was told the other day that there are hazmat vans already been made for the cfs the idea is of using these vehicles as rapid response to incidents that require further assistance these vehicles would get their faster then a 24P or 34P would but my guess is the cfs are looking at the rcr/hazmat vans that are currently in use in the nswfb

Darren · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2010, 11:01:53 PM »

Wow, I am out of breath !!

They have 1 Hyundai van at the moment, but it seems to have been hidden somewhere, haven't seen it anywhere.

Author Topic: New Rescue van for CFS (Read 89977 times)

Darren

rescue5271

pumprescue

rescue5271

firefighter21

Darren