Author Topic: SES vs CFS responses - split from Interesting Paging (Read 37558 times)

bajdas · « **Reply #25 on:** August 26, 2009, 10:08:19 PM »

Quote from: Zippy on August 26, 2009, 07:50:42 PM

Its probably time for a Internal CFS Referendum...

"Do we support the mass alteration of MFS Comcens Response Data for CFS Responses...and SES".

That was at the start of the SACAD project well before CFS CRD moved to Adelaide Fire.....can BOMS support all that data or is it waiting for SACAD ? ...I suspect the later....so whay redo the same work that has been requested before

Unless the wrong data was given or the data is not being updated continuously....then rubbish will get rubbish out

bajdas · « **Reply #26 on:** August 26, 2009, 10:09:20 PM »

Quote from: bajdas on August 26, 2009, 10:08:19 PM

Quote from: Zippy on August 26, 2009, 07:50:42 PM
Its probably time for a Internal CFS Referendum...

"Do we support the mass alteration of MFS Comcens Response Data for CFS Responses...and SES".

Wasn't that done at the start of the SACAD project well before CFS CRD moved to Adelaide Fire ?

Can BOMS support all that data or is it waiting for SACAD ? ...I suspect the later.

So why redo the same work that has been requested before

Unless the wrong data was given or the data is not being updated continuously....then rubbish will get rubbish out

jaff · « **Reply #27 on:** August 26, 2009, 10:10:01 PM »

Quote from: bajdas on August 26, 2009, 08:58:43 PM

It is sometimes quite amusing reading everyone statements about empires, training levels, conspiracy theories, etc. I am glad I was delayed in reading this thread due to callouts so I get a great laugh....

*** My personal knowledge only & not ofofficial from SES ***

sigh!......SACAD....SACAD, where for art thou SACAD!

Zippy · « **Reply #28 on:** August 26, 2009, 10:35:23 PM »

SACAD is in the In-Tray....piled under all the OHS work...

chook · « **Reply #29 on:** August 26, 2009, 10:52:35 PM »

Simple answer for you crash - own property in SA (in fact it is still my residential address), car registered in SA, 2 of my kids live in SA, as well as my girl friend, my company owns extensive plants in SA & I pay ESL. I spend one week a month "back home" & have job responsibilities there which include Emergency management. I also have friends who have dedicated over 25 years of their life to the service which some of you like to slander on a regular basis. Finally after doing "one or two" years of service myself (actually a few more than that

) & watching what was once good/great slowly but surely fade away, & knowing what it could be if people really cared I get a bit excited when I see another service which by its own admission (including people on this site) isn't perfect bagging SESSA. So no mate its not stiring - it is putting an alternative view point across! now I'm sorry if you don't appreciate that or can't see my reasons why I make comments on subjects I hold dear (which I think in most cases are fairly reasonable). I'm sure if I was way out of line a stern warning from one of the moderators would be quickly fired my way or I would get kicked off! Anyway thanks for your feed back & I will keep it in mind the next time someone has a shot at a service which I think does a great job. cheers

Darius · « **Reply #30 on:** August 27, 2009, 09:41:37 AM »

Quote from: Zippy on August 26, 2009, 07:50:42 PM

Its probably time for a Internal CFS Referendum...
"Do we support the mass alteration of MFS Comcens Response Data for CFS Responses...and SES".

you mean another mass SES alteration similar to what was done to stuff up responses that were previously correct?

Quote from: bajdas on August 26, 2009, 10:08:19 PM

Unless the wrong data was given or the data is not being updated continuously....then rubbish will get rubbish out

responses in most areas (especially those brigades on BOMS prior to the CRD changeover) were largely correct a couple of years ago but were deliberately changed to remove CFS.

PS. Pip good to hear someone else lodges those 'issues' forms, despite it being pretty much a total waste of time.

Darius · « **Reply #31 on:** August 27, 2009, 09:46:59 AM »

one of the (many) totally stuffed responses in the last day or so:

16:48:49 26-08-09 MFS: *CFSRES INC046 26/08/09 16:47,RESPOND Tree Down,BLACKWOOD CFS,BLACKWOOD MAP 0 J 1,ON MAIN ROAD APP 2 BENDS FROM BLACK ROAD,P2 BLOCKING MOST OF ROAD,STT020 SES Sturt Response

16:52:07 26-08-09 MFS: *CFSRES INC046 26/08/09 16:50,RESPOND Tree Down,MAIN RD,COROMANDEL VALLEY MAP 166 Q 2,APP 2 BENDS FROM BLACK ROAD.TREE BLOCKIN,G MOST OF ROAD P2,MIT020 SES Metro South Response

16:53:02 26-08-09 MFS: STOP FOR INC046 ADDRESS CORRECTION IS NOT YOUR RESPONSE SES Sturt Response

16:56:32 26-08-09 MFS: FROM MATHEW BELTON STURT TO RESPOND AND STOP FOR METRO SOUTH SES Metro South Response
16:56:30 26-08-09 MFS: FROM MATHEW BELTON STURT TO RESPOND AND STOP FOR METRO SOUTH SES Sturt Response

Zippy · « **Reply #32 on:** August 27, 2009, 10:31:16 AM »

Quote from: Darius on August 27, 2009, 09:41:37 AM

Quote from: Zippy on August 26, 2009, 07:50:42 PM
Its probably time for a Internal CFS Referendum...
"Do we support the mass alteration of MFS Comcens Response Data for CFS Responses...and SES".

you mean another mass SES alteration similar to what was done to stuff up responses that were previously correct?

Quote from: bajdas on August 26, 2009, 10:08:19 PM
Unless the wrong data was given or the data is not being updated continuously....then rubbish will get rubbish out

responses in most areas (especially those brigades on BOMS prior to the CRD changeover) were largely correct a couple of years ago but were deliberately changed to remove CFS.

PS. Pip good to hear someone else lodges those 'issues' forms, despite it being pretty much a total waste of time.

Soo....who made to decision to filtered that one up... lol

what a stupid idea to make CFS Chainsaws rendered useless...

bajdas · « **Reply #33 on:** August 27, 2009, 11:02:35 PM »

Quote from: crashndash on August 26, 2009, 08:32:45 PM

whenever we have these threads appear.....its always one name that appears to be stoking the fire.....i wonder why he bothers so much living in another place

I also get verrryyyyy annoyed re other posters (Darius, Zippy, CrashnDash, PumpRescue,etc) critising CRD system they do not have full details.

Do you know if the SES resource might be assisting another Unit in a different location, but still getting pager messages for the area they are assisting in ! Do you know if the local Unit is on crew rest period so they can assist later. Thus another Unit is covering the response area with vehicles maybe closer than the normal LHQ ! Yes, some SES Units have expensive equipment purchased on a limited budget. Go complain to your own organisation about equipment resources.

Yes I have commented re CFS Resource Tracking but I am not slamming it with what seems like an attitude.

I thought we were trying to share & learn to assist the community. Not this 'I did not get to go so I will have a hissy fit' attitude.

** this posting is not aimed at all people on this forum. I have been smoldering on this for a few days & had enough. No offence intended ***

pumprescue · « **Reply #34 on:** August 27, 2009, 11:16:48 PM »

I know more than you think......

chook · « **Reply #35 on:** August 28, 2009, 07:00:23 AM »

Well said bajdas - afterall it wasn't us who decided to buy all of the extra stuff, it isn't us who decided the the service gets sent to every storm job that comes through Comms & it wasn't us who decided to paint "Rescue" on the side of everything, in fact it wasn't us who said "SES is the lead agency for storm & flood in the state". From memory those decisions were made by senior management & the government as for the USAR stuff - well that was a National thing! And this "look what they are doing! look what they have got!" attitude has gone on for as long as I can remember & I can't for the life of me work out why! Then there is "why belong to more than one organisation", well everywhere else (including in SA) people do! In fact the other night I was raining people in tying knots & there were guys from RFS, VRA & even one from NSWFB who are part of SES as well. This always raises it's ugly head everytime there isn't any fires - maybe people are bored? Anyway mate I guess there isn't any point trying to change peoples opinions, this will go on & on & on

Take it easy mate & just enjoy your new unit.
cheers

jaff · « **Reply #36 on:** August 28, 2009, 08:13:08 AM »

Quote from: jaff on August 26, 2009, 03:28:23 PM

The system we have now is excellent, why would you bother local volunteers with the correct equipment and training to go to local events, when we can call in other volunteers from miles and miles away.
Bugger the public "We pay our taxes and levies and waa waa waa" you can just hear it now!

"WAKE UP SERVICES" get over protecting your duties and patch and serve the friggin public properly......FARKKK this shitte is wrong!

Can anyone of you think of any rational friggin reason for not using the closest most appropriate resource? If you can think of one, perhaps take a Blooody good look at yourself and ask whether you are still in it for the right reasons! and if you still think its valid.
Then put your reasons up here if you think they are still noble and let the masses give you another perhaps reasoned perspective! and maybe a reality friggin check put "Mr Angry" in here coz I couldnt find "Mr Can O Whooparsee"

Still waiting for the rational reasons as to why the closest most appropriate response is not sent!
Not bored Chook, just sick of stupidity!

Zippy · « **Reply #37 on:** August 28, 2009, 09:37:36 AM »

Quote from: jaff on August 28, 2009, 08:13:08 AM

Quote from: jaff on August 26, 2009, 03:28:23 PM
The system we have now is excellent, why would you bother local volunteers with the correct equipment and training to go to local events, when we can call in other volunteers from miles and miles away.
Bugger the public "We pay our taxes and levies and waa waa waa" you can just hear it now!

"WAKE UP SERVICES" get over protecting your duties and patch and serve the friggin public properly......FARKKK this shitte is wrong!

Can anyone of you think of any rational friggin reason for not using the closest most appropriate resource? If you can think of one, perhaps take a Blooody good look at yourself and ask whether you are still in it for the right reasons! and if you still think its valid.
Then put your reasons up here if you think they are still noble and let the masses give you another perhaps reasoned perspective! and maybe a reality friggin check put "Mr Angry" in here coz I couldnt find "Mr Can O Whooparsee"

Still waiting for the rational reasons as to why the closest most appropriate response is not sent!
Not bored Chook, just sick of stupidity!

Im with Jaff, Keen to hear an answer to this...

Darius · « **Reply #38 on:** August 28, 2009, 09:40:43 AM »

Quote from: bajdas on August 27, 2009, 11:02:35 PM

I thought we were trying to share & learn to assist the community. Not this 'I did not get to go so I will have a hissy fit' attitude.
** this posting is not aimed at all people on this forum. I have been smoldering on this for a few days & had enough. No offence intended ***

yes assisting the community is the aim, but as has already been said, an SES unit driving lights and sirens (causing a hazard to other traffic) from 20km away past 3 or 4 CFS brigades who are equipped to do the job is not assiting anyone, except maybe making that SES unit feel important. I don't claim to know the full CRD details (I don't think anyone does!) but apparently (like pumprescue said) know more than you think.

chook · « **Reply #39 on:** August 28, 2009, 12:40:52 PM »

Thought it was covered - no way of knowing who that is (other than the mandated response service)with the current setup. I agree with the stupidity bit Jaff, but your anger is directed at the wrong people/service. Here is another way to think about it - if there was a fire on the river bank & the closest appropriate service was a SES unit (trained, has the right equipment etc) would it be appropriate to page them first? Would Adelaide fire even know? Answer is obviously no!
So I believe it is something that the government, minister & SAFECOM need to deal with - it may be as simple as identifying suitable CFS resourses in the despatch system for that type of tasking (like the RCR directory), providing some extra training & equipment to the resources which have been identified or even writing a simple instruction that identifies areas of the state not covered by first response SES units so send the closest fire service first. As I said above your frustration is directed at the wrong people - maybe its something that CFS payed staff should be raising through your management structure - I'm sure they will be able to sought it all out for you, one way or another!

Zippy · « **Reply #40 on:** August 28, 2009, 02:17:05 PM »

This is all nothing to do with Politics and Rivalry......

Yes SES are the combatant agency to storm damage events, but CFS are open to be the first responder to any local jobs to assess the many jobs that SES gets called to.

Send the SES to the jobs they need to be at..relating to tree's YES SES should be at every Tree On Structure.

Tree on a Road? Send the closest Chainsaw..and in the Mount Lofty Ranges...CFS is typically it.

My brigade personally do not ever use a appliance siren for a tree down...Priority 2 unless life threat

bajdas · « **Reply #41 on:** August 28, 2009, 04:40:58 PM »

Quote from: pumprescue on August 26, 2009, 01:27:06 PM

Because most of us are smart enough to know that their is no point having stupdily expensive vehicles sitting there most of the time, most people struggle to crew 1 vehicle, let alone half a dozen.

Think about it, you just said yourself people are sick of having to much put on them, so why join half a dozen different services.

99% of the time the jobs are cutting up tree's and tarping, with the odd sandbagging job.

Can't remember a real full on USAR style job happened, if ever.

Anytime ropes are mentioned the job ends up being done by state staff...you know what I mean.....

It annoyed the filtered out of me yesterday when the SCC were pumping out jobs flat out to units that were 50+ kms away.

And you wanna cane MFS comms, they have to follow the same stupid rules.

Quote from: pumprescue on August 26, 2009, 01:27:06 PM

Reply #34 on: Today at 02:46:48
I know more than you think......

If you know the SES SOC RFA system and its history, then the above posting is very insulting. Yes, I believe you know of a CRD system, but not the system being critised in this thread.

The business rules are set in agreement with all MFS, CFS, SES & SAFECOM. Go critise them not a volunteer.

If I am wrong, then tell me your name because I must be training with you has a SES Volunteer or paid staff. I doubt this.

I also work full-time has 2nd level support, with a call centre system which dispatches jobs to me. This system has time response and time to fix penalties that are tightly controlled. The CFS and SES system do not go to this level. I do not know if MFS have time to fix system.

On Monday and Tuesday, we also were flat out at work maintaining infrastructure. It might not involve lights/sirens but people do get impacted greatly if the problem is not fixed in a timely manner.

The same when I was doing Coms In at SES SOC. It might be a small storm damage tasking in your perspective that anyone could fix. But the woman who wanted help for her 90+ old mother with a possible unstable roof in the Barossa Valley area it was a big deal. She was in metro Adelaide when she got a call from her frightened mother.

As stated, yes you might work with a emergency CRD system. But please do not insult me by saying you know better than myself when you do not publish your name on the forum you post to.

boredmatrix · « **Reply #42 on:** August 28, 2009, 05:54:13 PM »

BAHAHAHAHHAA....I love it when everyone fights over who should be doing what...

....this is just perfect ammo for getting rid of three services and just creating one big one which does everything - and reduces duplicated administration, training. staffing and infrastructure........

wake up to yourselves......you're talking about SA Government administration......you minions on the frontline can do bugger all to change it until you've got someone at the top of the admin chain who gives a rats about service delivery - and has the punction, foresight and clout to make that change happen before the service is blasted by the coroner or the media!!

bajdas · « **Reply #43 on:** August 28, 2009, 06:01:17 PM »

Quote from: boredmatrix on August 28, 2009, 05:54:13 PM

BAHAHAHAHHAA....I love it when everyone fights over who should be doing what...

....this is just perfect ammo for getting rid of three services and just creating one big one which does everything - and reduces duplicated administration, training. staffing and infrastructure........

wake up to yourselves......you're talking about SA Government administration......you minions on the frontline can do bugger all to change it until you've got someone at the top of the admin chain who gives a rats about service delivery - and has the punction, foresight and clout to make that change happen before the service is blasted by the coroner or the media!!

Aint that the truth....

Zippy · « **Reply #44 on:** August 28, 2009, 06:04:50 PM »

Aint that a awesome dream

Grant, Euan, Stuart & ..whose the Minister these days? in the Same room...

crashndash · « **Reply #45 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:41:40 AM »

Quote from: Zippy on August 28, 2009, 06:04:50 PM

Aint that a awesome dream Grant, Euan, Stuart & ..whose the Minister these days? in the Same room...

just give them all box cutters and last man standing wins

crashndash · « **Reply #46 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:50:57 AM »

Quote from: bajdas on August 28, 2009, 04:40:58 PM

On Monday and Tuesday, we also were flat out at work maintaining infrastructure.

baj.....you're post highlights the stupidity of the fact that mutual aid arrangements exist in the current system for just this reason and SES don't (and won't) use them....you know it, and we know it....and YOU, the SES make the community (including lil old ladies) wait unnecessarily, because u dont devolve jobs....dont sound so sanctimonious when people criticise your "system" for decisions like that.

Don't say that MFS and CFS agree to it, they don't, didnt and wont ever sign off on that....pure and utter crap. They just don't push the matter, because at this stage there is no point to doing so....one day there will be

crashndash · « **Reply #47 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:59:48 AM »

and while I'm on an early morning roll....if someone could visit Sturt SES and remove the obvious hardwiring they have for their siren from the ignition that would be great thanks..... Darius may well have seen them the same day I did......miles from home, and on a tree job P2, with a boatload of noise.... just dumb

Zippy · « **Reply #48 on:** August 29, 2009, 10:41:28 AM »

MFS: *CFSRES INC030 29/08/09 08:59,RESPOND STORM DAMAGE,WAIKERIE ,WAIKERIE MAP 0 0 0 TG205,NO 4 PENALUNA CR, WAIKERIE. SALT CHURCH., MINOR STORM DAMAGE. FROM SES VIA REG. 3, DUTY OFFICER.,WAIK19

Finally some sense.

6739264 · « **Reply #49 on:** August 29, 2009, 11:41:21 AM »

Ah, I do miss this place sometimes.

I love it when a few people dare to ask why the closest and most appropriate resource wasn't sent to a Tree Down job, and suddenly the SES gents start blowing up and screaming about "Empire Building" and the like. Idiots.

The allegations that SACAD will fix it all are certainly far fetched. The Fire Service can't even get its own act together and currently requires me, as IC to know the nearest 10 Brigades to my location, as well as the location of ALL specialist equipment within the Region and State in case I need it. THAT is the problem. As much as I would love to know all of that... I don't.

Will things ever change? Who knows. But it's going to take a lot of work by people that know what they are doing to get things to a place that will even begin to resemble Fire & Rescue Services that know what they are doing.

Possibly off topic, but a quick question to our SAMFS comms lads... What the filtered is going on down there? Why are the responses so wonky these days? You have "Smoke in Area" calls with the further info stating that there is smoke issuing from a premises, callers who are having their requests denied, callers who are getting pages with the opposite of the directions they have stated... Whats the deal? (I know the gents who post here are solid operators, but are there a heap of blows ins in comms at the moment or something?)