New CFS pumpers

[BundyBear]

A little birdy told me CFS infrastructure and logistics department has come out with another cracker. 14 pumpers and they are based on Canter size applainces. God help us if this is a fact!

[Zippy]

they could at least use a 2 Wheel Drive Chassis....end up being a modern 12... not too bad, but water & respect lacking..

[crashndash]

ahh Boys....lets be a little lateral about things for a second....

Most Mets trucks carry around 1400l of wet stuff....so strictly they are 12's....so lets not be closed to it.

If its an affordable way of getting a decent pump that can relay to other working trucks from mains or boost from a static supply or mains for those brigades who have low call numbers but higher risks....then there may be some merit to it. The Canter is just the transport mechanism...you dont need a $400,000 appliance just to propell a pump around the Sticks. So long as the build is good, and they are fit for purpose and cheap enough to warrant the fitout....then I reckon its not a bad compromise for SOME Brigades that would otherwise be left with a dakka dakka rural chaffcutter.

A 2000GPM pump in your Engine Room at a build price of less than $150,000?....we should be able to achieve that reasonably easily ....I'd line up for one, bring them on.

[Firefrog]

Agree!!!! Great way to put the right sized pump into stations that need them without the extra expense of a full sized truck! Could be a good move!

[Darren]

yeah you can't argue if it meets the specs!

[Alan (Big Al)]

If its up to spec and can carry a full RCR/Urban stowgae we will take one

[Darren]

Be a good small town pumper, eg a brigade that has a 34P a Hazmat vehicle and needs a decent pumper. Clearly the 34P's aren't up to it.

[JamesGar]

Belair 14 with a bigger pump...?

I know the stowage could potentially be a problem but I think they could be a functioning appliance for SACFS, I certainly wouldn't discount the idea until you see the product.

[Pipster]

We still have three of these in the current fleet - Upper Sturt, Stirling & Aldgate

I think it is a good idea to look at different appliance build & designs - although CFS HQ get bagged when they don't look at new vehicles & designs, and get bagged if they do!!!

If it gets trialled, and it works well, then we can end up with a number of useful appliances in the fleet.  If it turns out to be a lemon, we don't end up with a fleet of them!!

Pip

[calspec]

I think it sounds very sensible.  Pumper really only requires a small quantity of water on board to act as a buffer until a hydrant is sunk and whilst relaying.  

Doesn't matter how much water you have on board, if there is no reticulated supply you aint gonna pump nufin, well not for very long anyway.

Look at the filtered that broke loose at Kilburn due to lack of water.  All those $400K trucks with all the gear and 1800 litres of water would have only lasted a few seconds longer than a Canter with a 2 stage pump, 4in-4out plumbing, 10 lengths of 64, 1000 litres of water and a crew of 5 on board.  Probably get two (or more?) pumpers for the price of one red truck!

We all know in CFS, it's about value for money.  Sounds like a great way of getting effective resources to where they are needed without a 'CFA' budget.

Call em 12P's

[JamesGar]

I guess the other concept would be to put a rosenbauer NH30 onto the back of a 34p to see how that going with 4 in 4 out...

[mattb]

I guess the other concept would be to put a rosenbauer NH30 onto the back of a 34p to see how that going with 4 in 4 out...

James, my brigade would be happy to take something like that. A 34P with at least a 750GPM PTO pump would be ok for us, then we still have a second 4wd for rural stuff and an appliance that can actually have a reasonable crack at boosting should we need it.

I'm not sure if there is some physical limitation or just that no one has pushed it but a few of those trucks around the bigger towns and EMA brigades would be great. That is the urban interface vehicle that has long been talked about.

[bajdas]

A CFS QAV vehicle was on display at the showgrounds.
I did not get a close look at it
Is this the concept vehicle you are talking about or something different ?

[Zippy]

A CFS QAV vehicle was on display at the showgrounds.
I did not get a close look at it
Is this the concept vehicle you are talking about or something different ?

a QAV is good for lil rubbish fires.

[Pipster]

Different appliance...QAV (or QRV!) is designed to carry small amounts of water (that one at the show was 550 litres of water) with a small pump, designed solely for rural fires.

The mini pumper being discussed is more aimed for urban type applications, where mains water is available, and where a large pump is required, due to urban type risks.....

Pip

[Darren]

I can't work out why they can't put the NH30 on the 34P, it must be something to do with the 4x4 side of things, as our Pumper has the same engine and a 7 speed box instead of 6, but otherwise similar thing.

But yeah, a canter with a decent pump would be ideal, and not a 500 gpm thing, at least 750 gpm 4 in 4 out.

We will see what they come up with, could possibly be that CFA small town pumper ?

[crashndash]

in my haste to be a nice guy for a change and not crucify the CFS Head Shed....of course we are assuming that the power out of a canter is sufficient for a "decent" pump.....might well be a limiting factor, although for many of the towns these would suit, a 500GPM pump would be sufficient I guess.

I doubt the lil Mittsy would have the herbs to cope with a 1000GPM real mans pump in a 4 in and out array.....but...it still has a place, plenty of lil towns would kill for a 500GPM baby-pumper

[Alan (Big Al)]

I guess the other concept would be to put a rosenbauer NH30 onto the back of a 34p to see how that going with 4 in 4 out...

James, my brigade would be happy to take something like that. A 34P with at least a 750GPM PTO pump would be ok for us, then we still have a second 4wd for rural stuff and an appliance that can actually have a reasonable crack at boosting should we need it.

I'm not sure if there is some physical limitation or just that no one has pushed it but a few of those trucks around the bigger towns and EMA brigades would be great. That is the urban interface vehicle that has long been talked about.

I agree with you Matt, mind you at the moment our brigade would be very happy with a stock standard 34P, but a 750gpm version of the 34P would be great for us and still keep the extra rural capability we would need in our area.

[jaff]

in my haste to be a nice guy for a change

Going by your previous posts its more of an anomaly.......I'm sure normal transmission will resume reaalll soon!

[Darren]

If the 500 GPM had 4 in 4 out, 2 stage pump, with decent plumbing, then you might have a winner, but in the current 34P configuration it will never work well.

[bittenyakka]

just to refresh me the current 34p is 500gpm? and FDNY is 2000 or 4000?  and mfs is 1000?

i think the idea is good i just want to see some blueprints or the finished thing.

[Darren]

All new FDNY engines are 2000 GPM. The older engines are 1000 GPM, there are a few 2000 GPM high pressure engines for boosting highrise buildings. They are single stage but they don't use HP lines, so high pressure isn't so important.

[bittenyakka]

yeah i guess using at least a 70mm hose fixes that problem.

is there a mid mount NH30that we could put on a 34p and remove the crew deck ? that would work really well for and urban ish truck for lots of brigades?

[Darren]

http://www.cfaconnect.net.au/index.php?option=com_joomgallery&func=viewcategory&catid=516&Itemid=11


This is the CFA small pumper, I am wondering if this is what they are talking about, trying to find some specs on it.

[BundyBear]

Thanks for that was just interested to see what response I got.

The positives everyone came up with was a decent size pump and recognising a dedicated pumpers does not require a lot of water (but if it can handle it why not!) if working on the urban fringe or large rural township.

Can I share with everyone now don't let your brigade take on one of these small pumpers as if they are on a chassis such as a Mitsubishi Canter or a like it won't have the guts to pull the skin off a rice pudding.

The appliance will be grossly under powered with all the necessary urban kit and then if you've got to carry rescue gear or hazmat it will be worse. Plus they are not real roomy especially wearing PBI Gold.

I know this from experience due to being at a brigade that suffered with this sort of concept appliance a few years back on the urban fringe. I understand CFS has budget constraits like all businesses but be warned. A 34P would be a better option even though the storage on them is a pig of an idea.

I think Burnside has set the bar realistically for a pumper and why should we as firefighters that are unpaid except sub standard equipment to complete the task.