Author Topic: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005  (Read 32076 times)

Offline 6739264

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PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« on: December 10, 2009, 11:22:05 AM »
So, I hear rumours of a "memo" from somewhere "up the chain" that is commanding that we only wear PBI to *Confirmed* Structure fires and nothing else?

No AFA's, no RCR's, no rural jobs...

Confirm/Deny?
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline BundyBear

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 11:31:36 AM »
Should be a poster in your station that tell's you what and what not to wear it to.

Offline 6739264

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 11:43:14 AM »
Should be a poster in your station that tell's you what and what not to wear it to.

Ah, but which has more authority, a poster or the dreaded "memo from up the chain" ?
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Darius

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 12:49:46 PM »
So, I hear rumours of a "memo" from somewhere "up the chain" that is commanding that we only wear PBI to *Confirmed* Structure fires and nothing else?

No AFA's, no RCR's, no rural jobs...

Confirm/Deny?

not quite, but if you removed the words "confirmed" and "AFA's" from your post then it matches the memo sent to captains from the R1C (and agree to by GO's at the last R1VMC).

regarding authority and the poster/memo, the definitive answer of what you wear when and to what is found in section 5 of the CFS uniform manual.

Offline 6739264

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 12:57:45 PM »
Oh I love the continued hearsay and Chinese whispers that are so prevalent in the CFS.

mmm Chinese...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 01:03:57 PM »
So this has happened to open a whole can of worms in the Chain of Command....

Does state policy overtake regional policy...

POSTER > State
MEMO > Region


Personally, i know where i want to wear it,  and i compare that to both.

POSTER > Green light
MEMO > Red light


Guess where i wont wear it that keeps state and region happy lulz!


In regards to "confirmed/AFA's"...those brigades who heard that, have misinterpreted the memo.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 01:15:04 PM by Zippy »

Offline 6739264

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 01:22:28 PM »
In that case, it looks like my choice is:

POSTER > Red Light
MEMO > Red Light

Oh well *shrug*
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 01:30:31 PM »
I would like to go POSTER > Yellow Light...the Hybrid format.  But you have to be in Lofty group to do that... 

Offline 6739264

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 01:34:38 PM »
I was talking more of just avoiding the issue and going nude...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »
ha good point...  Now that's a new idea when it comes to Fire Service PPE Protests...   But yeh,  it'd be horrible..

Offline Darius

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 02:21:22 PM »
POSTER > State
MEMO > Region

can you give an example where it's contradictory? (cos of course the memo, poster and uniform manual should all match)

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 02:22:25 PM »
State...Everything except Rural.
Region....Only when you will wear BA.

Hazmat is an example where this contradicts with SOP. To do anything in Hazmat operations, its PBI Gold or Higher, required.

IF youve got PBI, wear it...its a higher level of protection, from the elements of danger we encounter..  CFS Motto: "Safety First".

Now...the Storm Damage/Weather Related incidents....Poster: Yes,  Memo: No.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 02:27:58 PM by Zippy »

Offline crashndash

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2009, 02:50:00 PM »
Region.....isnt that advisory only.....sort of like that annoying tone that tells u that you are over the speed limit in your car?

Offline Darius

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2009, 07:25:58 AM »
State...Everything except Rural.
Region....Only when you will wear BA.

the uniform manual is supposed to be the definitive source. If the poster contradicts that then get your GO to raise it to the region.  (both the uniform manual and poster are issued by state, so when you say 'region' I assume you mean the memo?  the memo is just supposed to be reinforcing the state policy.)

quote from the uniform manual (under 'structural ensemble' and a picture of someone wearing PBI Gold):

APPLICATION
To be worn at all structure and other fires and / or incidents where the risk dictates the necessity for structural firefighting PPE to be worn.
The PPE is worn during structural fire fighting and while partaking in drill or training exercises.
The PPE may be worn in other situations at the discretion of the Officer-in-Charge.
It is not to be worn at rural fire incidents and it is not to be mixed with rural ensemble.

Hazmat is an example where this contradicts with SOP. To do anything in Hazmat operations, its PBI Gold or Higher, required.

No it's the 'rural ensemble' for hazmat according to the uniform manual (usually just a shorts/pants and t-shirt are worn under the splash/gas suit from what I've seen).

IF youve got PBI, wear it...its a higher level of protection, from the elements of danger we encounter..  CFS Motto: "Safety First".

where you think you should wear PBI Gold is a different matter. If you don't like the current rules, lobby to get them changed.

Now...the Storm Damage/Weather Related incidents....Poster: Yes,  Memo: No.

I would have thought storm/weather related things are what the wet weather gear is for but agreed it does say you can wear PBI Gold to those.  If you're following the poster I would think you're on safe ground.

[disclaimer: you should be asking your Captain or GO about all this stuff, not an internet forum]

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2009, 08:40:50 AM »
Quote
No it's the 'rural ensemble' for hazmat according to the uniform manual (usually just a shorts/pants and t-shirt are worn under the splash/gas suit from what I've seen).

Ill keep washing my Level 1 after being a Decon Zone Operator, in my own washing machine then.....

Decon Zone Operator literally needs to be wearing a Chemical Barrier...either being PBI gold or Tyvek Coveralls.

The PBI Gold Ensemble is a chemical barrier application.  The IERG refers to Level 3/Structural when it comes to the lowest protection for Immediate Rescue.

...Yeah, but you know how some GO's & Captains are, they seem to follow the leader who sends out the wrong message. Higher ranks in the group seem to hate PBI as much as the select few of Staff.   They are, unapproachable, about this topic.

Last question, why isnt there a copy of the Uniform Manual in every station, accessible to all members.


Rules being made without consulting particular departments of the CFS...
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 08:55:34 AM by Zippy »

Offline Mike

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2009, 09:45:24 AM »
If you're following the poster I would think you're on safe ground.

The poster is simple to understa.... and issued by state.

As I have told my captain, until something is provided in writing by state that contradicts the current information, I will wear the best aforded protection that suits the situation (as allowed by the ticks).

As for storm/weather: PBI povides a water barrier. Why carry another coat in the rain....?

Offline 6739264

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2009, 11:24:47 AM »
As Zippy suggested, we're only to wear a rural ensemble for Hazmat, yet for immediate rescue we are to wear L3 as a minimum...

Hmm, curious...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 12:26:40 PM »
I'm going to carry around a Uniform Manual, a Poster, a Memo, and a IERG with me all the time....somehow...

Offline Alex

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2009, 01:37:29 AM »
So, I hear rumours of a "memo" from somewhere "up the chain" that is commanding that we only wear PBI to *Confirmed* Structure fires and nothing else?

No AFA's, no RCR's, no rural jobs...

Confirm/Deny?

I'm going to presume the entire basis for this post was probably just rumopur and not actual fact anyway... but.

If the AFA bit is true, then someone has there head well and truly wedged up there butt... although it would tend to echoe the entire services attitude towards alarm calls.

Offline tft

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2009, 09:46:11 AM »
Wear PBI gold to a structure fire, half the time if you are in a busy brigade it is getting cleaned.
Try get a spare set

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2009, 08:12:46 PM »
The memo comes froms Mr Martin (thats a whole other story on his interesting views) but all it says is don't mix and match eg no PBI pants and NOMEX jacket. It goes on to say abide by the poster.

Offline Mike

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2009, 05:57:59 AM »
Well, apparently something is coming from COAC.... But ive been told to chase it up with region.
Have to say im much, much less than impressed with some of the things I was told last night in relation to this issue.... but that shall remain in my head for now.

Offline Zippy

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2009, 07:27:26 AM »
The more this issue gets pushed, the more i care less about bushfires...

Offline Darius

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2009, 07:55:58 AM »
but that shall remain in my head for now.

it is like that. Most of the guys in my brigade (I'd say all except a couple) don't care about any of the crap that goes on, or should I say comes down from upon, they just turn up (training and calls), do the job and go home.

But all you guys with thoughts on PBI Gold, have you made sure your group officer knows of your and/or your brigade's opinions?  at the last regional volunteer management meeting all the GO's present were in agreement with the published policy - however the main two GO's who have been somewhat vocal on PBI Gold in the past were not at that meeting.

Offline Mike

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Re: PBI - Hated by CFSHQ Since 2005
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2009, 08:11:54 AM »
Darius, Im certainly not one who likes to remain quite about these things :)

Well, just got off the phone to region. The official stance is still: poster + uniform manual = all the info needed..... (which we all knew anyway)

Which unfortunately contradicts what I was told AGAIN last night, and makes the proposed consequences even more stupid and irrational....

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