Author Topic: Domestic Response  (Read 14472 times)

Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Domestic Response
« on: October 08, 2010, 11:26:35 AM »
Howdy Guys,

This hypothetical is purely to tell us all who you as a brigade or at a group level respond to reported house fires and why. Not interested in reading about incident control and management or who you might respond in a perfect world... i want to know WHO ACTUALLY GETS RESPONDED AND WHY.

In our area there is always 2 brigades [in the hopes of a minimum of 2 appliances] to any structure call, fire or AFA. And a tanker will get added for areas with no reticulated water.

We all know CFS SOP says minimum of 2 inc 1 with BA, but this seems to vary greatly dependant on group and brigade and SOPs get ignored. What do you do locally?

Offline mattb

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 12:47:55 PM »
In our dual response zones (CFS / MFS) it is one CFS brigade (two trucks if you can get em) and two MFS pumps. If one MFS pump is not available from station 43, you will get a second CFS brigade on the initial response.

Outside of the dual response area it is two CFS brigades, with a minimum of 4 x BA on the way (from either trucks), if you don't have at least 4 another brigade will be turned out.

Offline Pipster

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,269
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 02:05:52 PM »
When asked by Adelaide Fire on ALERTS who else to send, other than my own brigade, I will choose the next two closest BA brigades to the incident (and they will be different, depending on which end of the district the incident is).

If there is another non BA brigade adjacent to the incident, I will respond them too, often making it an initial 3 or 4 brigade response.

My reasoning is that two out of four of my adjoining BA brigades only carry 2 BA sets each, the others carry 4 sets each, but depending upon the time of day, I know some brigades will struggle to get lot of BA crews in the first 15-20 minutes.

A tanker will also be responded, due to having no mains water in the area.

Pip

There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline vsteve01

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 02:11:45 PM »
pretty sure they roll all BA brigades in our group to confirmed fires, but I can't be sure.  I'd say the theory is to get enough BA operators coz the chances are, each will only have 1or2 members on each truck at best.  Not sure what the first alarm response is though.

I guess it would really depend on where it was and what resources the closest brigade has.

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2010, 12:52:17 AM »
We recommend a 14 with a crew of 2, ring it with the drip torch then head home! :wink:
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2010, 08:38:28 AM »
Excellent input as usual JAFF.

Im interested to know what some brigades/groups feel is an adequate response, as im fed up with seeing some single brigade [especially when single appliance stations] responses. And them im curious when i can think of one group that for the same incident type in the same town i have seen variations from 1 brigade to 3 brigade responses.

We have SOPs and some people have common sense... do those members on ALERTS and OICs on appliances recommending ridiculous responses not realise they are going to be liable if it all turns to crap?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 08:40:06 AM by Alex »

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 08:41:58 AM »
In our group if the job is in Naracoorte township its Naracoorte brigade only unless its fully involved,Outside  of the town its  3 Brigades and one being CABA and a BWC if required..

Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 08:54:12 AM »
In our group if the job is in Naracoorte township its Naracoorte brigade only unless its fully involved

whats the reasoning for this?

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 09:18:04 AM »
With Domestic fires in the township we can take care of it with the pumper and 34p,How ever if its fully involved then we need more appliances,Man power Thinks will change once the hynam brigade has done CABA.

Domestic fires as you know Alex range from the low to high scale,thats why our groupies upgrade calls ....Our nearest CABA back up is 30 mins away...

Offline Zippy

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,540
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 09:27:20 AM »
What happens when...you have 4 BA operators..and a Lieuy rock up to the Naracoorte station.

Would you call other brigades purely for man power, not BA?

Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 09:32:39 AM »
Domestic fires as you know Alex range from the low to high scale,thats why our groupies upgrade calls ....Our nearest CABA back up is 30 mins away...

Indeed, thats why we have differant level of alarms. The thing is though Bill, can Naracoorte guarantee two appliances out the door every single time to fulfill first alarm requirements? No. Noone can. This is what frustrates me and i see no reason not to involve a minimum of two brigades straight up, apart from special cases like coober pedy, ceduna etc where areas are isolated.

Theres no need to treat fire calls as 'ours', get people on the road and stop them if not required on arrival!

Im just fed up with being told to only respond such and such brigade regardless of our suggestions and SOP, and then on arrival "oh scheiße, send everyone."

Offline SA Firey

  • Forum Group Officer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,967
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 09:46:57 AM »
Alex, I would run with the SOP's that way you've covered your back, and it's about time some other groups read up on them, and what the true response in an appliance is...not 2 people in an appliance as I have witnessed, or a command car to check the job out!!

If you get a call for a "domestic fire" it should always be at minimum a 2 brigade response, and obviously if you are getting multiple 000's then upgrade it.

Seems to work well for the MFS crews.
Images are copyright

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2010, 09:50:29 AM »
Alex, I dont think anyone can say they can get 2 applinces out the door 100% of the time, But in the past 10 years the Brigade has been able to get 2 fire appliances and a rescue out to all domestic fires in the town. As for CABA back up well lets get real if its a house fire fully involved and at the moment our CABA back up is 30 mins away its very unlikely that the house will be standing.

We do and I have done it as duty officer called in a second CABA brigade from else where for larger domestic or commercial fires. Unlike metro CFS we dont have CABA back up around the corner but we will soon.... Last domestic fire we had out of town we had 3 caba brigades due to the location and travel time...

Offline 6739264

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,806
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • RETARD RETARD RETARD Need I say more?
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2010, 02:59:30 PM »
In our group if the job is in Naracoorte township its Naracoorte brigade only unless its fully involved
Alex, I dont think anyone can say they can get 2 applinces out the door 100% of the time, But in the past 10 years the Brigade has been able to get 2 fire appliances and a rescue out to all domestic fires in the town. As for CABA back up well lets get real if its a house fire fully involved and at the moment our CABA back up is 30 mins away its very unlikely that the house will be standing.

We do and I have done it as duty officer called in a second CABA brigade from else where for larger domestic or commercial fires. Unlike metro CFS we dont have CABA back up around the corner but we will soon.... Last domestic fire we had out of town we had 3 caba brigades due to the location and travel time...

If the house is fully involved, would you not need LESS manpower? If your only concern is asset protection and defensive firefighting, you wouldn't even need a CABA Brigade!

I see little problem with single brigade responses, in fact I believe that it is a standard to which brigades should aspire. If the brigade is responsible in its turnout times and its ability to turn out other brigades then where is the problem?

It also depends heavily on Adelaide Fire. They should be able to upgrade responses based upon information received from callers. Does a small single room fire need the same response as multiple 000 calls to a factory alight, going well?

What happens when...you have 4 BA operators..and a Lieuy rock up to the Naracoorte station.

Would you call other brigades purely for man power, not BA?

Whats wrong with that crewing? 2 internal, 2 External + OIC. You've all bases covered, and can undertake internal attack AND exposure protection...

As for real world (odd that its in the HYPOTHETICAL forums, but anyhow) my group has a mixture of both single brigade and multiple brigade responses based on location and incident type. It works well, in my very humble opinion...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline bajdas

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,745
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2010, 03:12:42 PM »
Domestic fires as you know Alex range from the low to high scale,thats why our groupies upgrade calls ....Our nearest CABA back up is 30 mins away...

Indeed, thats why we have differant level of alarms. The thing is though Bill, can Naracoorte guarantee two appliances out the door every single time to fulfill first alarm requirements? No. Noone can. This is what frustrates me and i see no reason not to involve a minimum of two brigades straight up, apart from special cases like coober pedy, ceduna etc where areas are isolated.

Theres no need to treat fire calls as 'ours', get people on the road and stop them if not required on arrival!

Im just fed up with being told to only respond such and such brigade regardless of our suggestions and SOP, and then on arrival "oh filtered, send everyone."

So this is someone in metro Adelaide advising a country crew and bypassing local knowledge ??
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2010, 08:05:57 AM »
Andrew, current procedure in Adelaide Fire [as requested by CFS state] is that operators phone local ALERTS for 90% of brigades, who then decide who they want. The operators have no say in it and can only suggest brigades follow SOPs etc.

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2010, 08:11:35 PM »
ALEX, its good to use SOP'S but we still need to get more information out of the caller,They may report a fire being south or east when in fact its north and over 40kms away..I know its hard to drag information out of callers but when you have a hwy that spans some 300 or so Kms does make life hard.....


Dont get me wrong SOP'S have there place .....

Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2010, 08:20:40 PM »
Not sure what your talking about Bill. I am unsure how distance and bearing effect the application of SOPs.

Darren

  • Guest
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2010, 10:04:03 PM »
Ahhh Alex, we get canned when we do something correctly, and we get canned when we do something wrong....that's why I have resigned myself to doing what I am told on the ALERTS....

There is no thanks in our job !!

rescue5271

  • Guest
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 06:15:53 AM »
Darren, Dont be like that mate..We all know that working in Comms is very hard....Call taking is one of the hardest jobs in COMMS....Keep the good work up BOYS...Speaking of comms how comm we never hear a female on the radio or on alerts????

Offline jaff

  • Forum Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2010, 11:22:32 AM »
Andrew, current procedure in Adelaide Fire [as requested by CFS state] is that operators phone local ALERTS for 90% of brigades, who then decide who they want. The operators have no say in it and can only suggest brigades follow SOPs etc.



Alex are your suggestions based on your knowledge of areas, or do you other than the RCR directory have a prompt?
Just Another Filtered Fireman

Offline bittenyakka

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,342
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2010, 01:11:31 PM »
ALEX, its good to use SOP'S but we still need to get more information out of the caller,They may report a fire being south or east when in fact its north and over 40kms away..I know its hard to drag information out of callers but when you have a hwy that spans some 300 or so Kms does make life hard.....


Dont get me wrong SOP'S have there place .....

Sometimes Callers are jsut plain Wrong. But still If the domestic fire is street A or street B whats the diffrence excepte maybe a BWC.

We hope for a 2 stacion and hence 2 appliance response but sometimes Alerts will change this and more often than no XXX42 will result in all the kings men.


Offline Alex

  • Forum Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2010, 05:15:48 PM »
Andrew, current procedure in Adelaide Fire [as requested by CFS state] is that operators phone local ALERTS for 90% of brigades, who then decide who they want. The operators have no say in it and can only suggest brigades follow SOPs etc.



Alex are your suggestions based on your knowledge of areas, or do you other than the RCR directory have a prompt?

Mapping, the RCRD and SOPs mate.
There's no pre-determined response schedules [closest to furthest brigades] setup in BOMS for zones other than MFS and a couple of urban frings CFS groups.

Offline Mic10110

  • Forum Firefighter
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2011, 09:17:18 AM »
I agree Alex - 2 Brigades minimum for a reported structure fire within the town. Oustide of the town include a couple of BWC's. There's still plenty of fixed alarms out there with a single brigade response too. We're guilty I know....

Offline fire8029

  • Forum Senior Firefighter
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Domestic Response
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2011, 08:53:59 PM »
in our area we would have an mfs appliance and 2 cfs appliances and for a second alarm another mfs appliance from 10kms and one 2 from 15kms, them there is multiple cfs within 30km radius for a third or fourth and so on.