Author Topic: Graduate paramedics (Read 25181 times)

jayc · « **on:** October 24, 2010, 07:54:17 AM »

Hi guys, I was just wondering how successful flinders
(paramedic studies) graduates are in getting employed with SAAS?
Paramedics is offered as an undergraduate course, so that means some will be qualified to apply for an internship at age 20... Also, with the introdcution of the university prerequisites, are you finding that new staff are all quite young?
I understand that life experience is sort of important , so what can a younger, prospective paramedic do to increase employability? (i.e. volunteer in the CFS etc?)
I'm in year 12 at the moment, and I've applied for medicine and paramedics next year. it's unlikely that i'll get into med, but it is quite likely that i'll get a spot in paramedics, so I'm just trying to find out as much as I can. Anyway, I look forward to hearing your thoughts....
Cheers!

disOrderly · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2010, 12:03:01 AM »

As far as I am aware, it is getting harder to get an internship and a job at the end of the degree in SA.

I too am trying to get into the Paramedic degree, I am currently an undergraduate Nursing student at Flinders and I work at a major metropolitan hospital. I feel I should be in good stead to get a position pending I get into the degree, but that's not to say I will! I suppose I really hope I do! haha.

I am sure some of the guys who actually work in SAAS will provide better information than I can anyway.

jayc · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2010, 10:45:27 AM »

cool, thanks for the input!
I have considered a double degree in nursing and paramedics - doing nursing for a while and then tying to apply for an internship with SAAS... but i don't think flinders offers the double degree? However, i think you can do 3 years of paramedics and then a 1 year fast track nursing qualification? And vice versa i guess...

anyway, good luck mate - hopefully you get a place in the course!

disOrderly · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2010, 02:56:20 PM »

There was a double degree offered a few years ago, but it is no longer around. You can do the fast track program which I was going to do, but tbh its getting very hard to get into the Paramed degree, so I want to get into it ASAP and then I can come back and finish my nursing later.

Also, I don't think that 'life experience' has much to do with it. Life experience is not something that is quantitative and just comes with age. I have far more 'life experience' than many people my own age and probably older. It would be wrong to assume that younger people don't have any 'life experience' purely based on their age.

No Care 1 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2010, 05:19:48 PM »

One, maybe 2 next year as SAAS, maybe start looking at WA or Vic as they are desperate for grad staff

jayc · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:37:57 AM »

dis0rderly - I completely agree

no care - that's a bummer... there will be maybe 20 paramedic graduates applying? So I wonder what those 18 or 19 unsuccessful applicants will do? I mean I guess SAAS will just have a lot of overqualified PTOs...?

It's a little reckless on Flinders' behalf - the amount of positions they're offering obviously doesn't represent the demand. But then again, 3 years ago... when they took in this year's graduates, they couldn't have predicted the increase in wages, and that all of a sudden it would become a much more desirable job......

Either way, I still want to do the course. I'd prefer not to go interstate... but what do you do? The lower wage wouldn't bother me; but I assume that's one of the main reasons behind the shortage of staff over there.

misterteddy · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2010, 01:20:04 PM »

welcome to the real world.....getting a place in a Uni course does not equal a god given right to a job for life. Try whinging to the hundreds of other uni course students that only 30 or 40 or 50% of the course students are going to get a job offer. Finish the course, then go find a job like everyone else has to.

As was said, plenty of work in Australia for Degree qualified paramedics that arent afraid to look at other locations in Australia or alternatives other than working for a cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run transport service

Not sure whether SAAS will be vastly increasing its PTS numbers, that would be in contratst to its stated reduction in the NEPT side of things, and the corresponding increase in private PTS providers (with another one to start soon apparantly). If they do, it wont be with highly priced (and therefore costly) degree students.

jayc · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2010, 01:49:24 PM »

I wonder how other state run ambulance services fair compared to SAAS...? Do they have the same selection criteria as SAAS (paramedical science/health science (paramedic) degree)... or do some still offer on the job (cert. IV)training? If so, is there any point in spending 3 years and 25000 dollars completing the paramedics degree here in SA only to end up working at say QAS, where (I think) they still offer that sort of route?

misterteddy - I'm well aware of the job shortages that various uni students may face. I was just pointing out that maybe the universities should be more conscious of this and adjust the number of places they offer accordingly

I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

6739264 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2010, 02:22:56 PM »

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 01:49:24 PM

I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

Then you've already made the decision to move interstate?

jayc · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2010, 02:46:38 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 02:22:56 PM

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

Then you've already made the decision to move interstate?

I plan on doing the paramedics degree at flinders, applying for an internship at SAAS, and if unsuccessful, looking at NSWAS, QAS etc. I have come to understand that employment opportunities for paramedics with SAAS are scarce, and accept that I maaayyy have to move interstate in the future; I haven't "made the decision" to move interstate.

6739264 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2010, 03:14:03 PM »

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 02:46:38 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

Then you've already made the decision to move interstate?

I plan on doing the paramedics degree at flinders, applying for an internship at SAAS, and if unsuccessful, looking at NSWAS, QAS etc. I have come to understand that employment opportunities for paramedics with SAAS are scarce, and accept that I maaayyy have to move interstate in the future; I haven't "made the decision" to move interstate.

But you said you didn't want cosy nights in bed and want to join "for the nature of the work"....?

jayc · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2010, 03:22:22 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 03:14:03 PM

Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: 6739264 on October 26, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
Quote from: jayc on October 26, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
I don't want to work for a govt.run ambulance service because it's a "cosy, tuck you into bed in night, state run service;" I want to work at SAAS or somewhere equivalent in the future, because of the nature of the work. NEPT doesn't appeal to me as a job prospect.

Then you've already made the decision to move interstate?

I plan on doing the paramedics degree at flinders, applying for an internship at SAAS, and if unsuccessful, looking at NSWAS, QAS etc. I have come to understand that employment opportunities for paramedics with SAAS are scarce, and accept that I maaayyy have to move interstate in the future; I haven't "made the decision" to move interstate.

But you said you didn't want cosy nights in bed and want to join "for the nature of the work"....?

Whether or not working for the SAAS is 'comfortable' doesn't bother me. What I mean is what really motivates me to become a paramedic is the rewarding and exciting nature of the high acuity/emergency work

misterteddy · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2010, 07:00:31 PM »

so why tie yourself to SAAS and Flinders. To be honest, the Flinder degree has a crap reputation, certainly not helped by the fact that SAAS and Flinders have had a lovers tiff of some substance for a while. Not sure if they have kissed and put out yet

It's a big wide world of pre-hospital emergency practice out there....dont just follow the sheep, look at other Uni's with better degrees, better facilitated clinical blocks, better teaching facilities, better online/distance learning (not hard to beat Flinders effort of none!)

At least 3 services are recruiting now - The Jacks in WA, QAS and ACTAS. WA is quite exciting with a new Clinical Director onboard who should shake the Johnnies up a fair bit. That said....if being a degree qualified paramedic and still running Nanna to the x-ray unit then home again is your thing......feel free to stay in safe and homely SA

jayc · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2010, 08:27:00 PM »

Quote from: misterteddy on October 26, 2010, 07:00:31 PM

so why tie yourself to SAAS and Flinders. To be honest, the Flinder degree has a crap reputation, certainly not helped by the fact that SAAS and Flinders have had a lovers tiff of some substance for a while. Not sure if they have kissed and put out yet

It's a big wide world of pre-hospital emergency practice out there....dont just follow the sheep, look at other Uni's with better degrees, better facilitated clinical blocks, better teaching facilities, better online/distance learning (not hard to beat Flinders effort of none!)

At least 3 services are recruiting now - The Jacks in WA, QAS and ACTAS. WA is quite exciting with a new Clinical Director onboard who should shake the Johnnies up a fair bit. That said....if being a degree qualified paramedic and still running Nanna to the x-ray unit then home again is your thing......feel free to stay in safe and homely SA

Wow, you've given me some interesting points to consider. I have always wondered about applying for the same degree interstate, at a uni that offers more hours of placement/has a better relationship with their ambulance service than Flinders!
I guess it would be a little naive of me to stick around in Adelaide, and complete a degree that won't necessarily get me anywhere.
I definitely don't want to be just 'running nanna to the x-ray unit and home again'; if I were to do 3 years of paramedics, only to be employed as a PTO in SA, it would be sort of unfulfilling, or, anticlimactic... i dunno... I mean there are numerous health care degrees that I could apply for - physio, OT, podiatry, radiology - but, like PTO, it just wouldn't be as fulfilling as being a paramedic

I'll definitely look into the QAS, and have a long think about how their courses differ from ours.
Cheers mate

boredmatrix · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2010, 08:52:35 AM »

good luck Jayc

as noted by some of the others -FUSA's reputation is not that solid in terms of academic ability - and judging on the quality of some of the students of late.....[shudder]

The reality with this career/profession now is that with it being post-graduate -the competition will only increase significantly. SAAS is prob less competitive than somewhere like QAS given that 5 uni's currently pump out over 500 graduates a year for just 120 positions in the sunshine state.

as for your comment about the motivation of rewarding and exciting work...don't worry - it will pass after about 8 years and you'll just become cynical and cranky like the rest of us public servants who enjoy a nice lunchtime walk from Vic Square to Parliament house on a Tuesday!!

jayc · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2010, 09:50:46 AM »

thanks alot, boredmatrix

"as for your comment about the motivation of rewarding and exciting work...don't worry - it will pass after about 8 years and you'll just become cynical and cranky like the rest of us public servants who enjoy a nice lunchtime walk from Vic Square to Parliament house on a Tuesday!!" - Haha! Well, we'll see

6739264 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2010, 11:46:04 AM »

In all seriousness, (for this post only) the other consideration you may want to investigate is career progression.

I am but a simple Fireman, and do not know the numbers, but look at the number of positions available for specialisations such as SOT/ USAR in SAAS and then compare them with other interstate organisations. Based on the fact that Vic/NSW/Qld are states with significantly larger populations and a larger area to cover, they are, by this fact alone, able to offer you more positions in vastly different roles down the track...

The other thing that lies behind the interstate suggestion is that you're obviously still young and essentially unattached (I imagine you dont have kids!) which means you're in a unique position to begin your employment in ANY service you want country wide. You'd be mad not to look at those that will be able to offer you better career progression than SAAS.

jayc · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2010, 01:07:27 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on October 27, 2010, 11:46:04 AM

In all seriousness, (for this post only) the other consideration you may want to investigate is career progression.

I am but a simple Fireman, and do not know the numbers, but look at the number of positions available for specialisations such as SOT/ USAR in SAAS and then compare them with other interstate organisations. Based on the fact that Vic/NSW/Qld are states with significantly larger populations and a larger area to cover, they are, by this fact alone, able to offer you more positions in vastly different roles down the track...

The other thing that lies behind the interstate suggestion is that you're obviously still young and essentially unattached (I imagine you dont have kids!) which means you're in a unique position to begin your employment in ANY service you want country wide. You'd be mad not to look at those that will be able to offer you better career progression than SAAS.

6739264 - Thanks for the input! SAAS employs fewer paramedics than QAS etc, so, althogh there may be fewer positions for 'specialisation' here, it would be proportional to the (smaller) number of paramedics employed.
I've never considered career progression in great depth before. Paramedics would be a unique sort of job, in that I can't see it getting boring or being very monotonous. Consequently, keeping the same role or title for a long time wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I'll look into how paramedics reach ICP or SOT status; but that's probably getting a bit ahead of myself!

You're right - I am young; I'm only 17 and I guess I am unattached; I don't have any kids... I hope, haha... and I I even have a couple of family members dotted around the country

. I certainly won't rule out the possibility of future interstate employment - judging by some of the comments re: job availabilities in SAAS, it sounds like working interstate might not be a choice or liberty; but rather the only option!

I'm not sure if there are any SOT/ICP paramedics on this forum? Boredmatrix sounds like an experienced career paramedic... it would be interesting to hear about how he got to where he is!

misterteddy · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2010, 01:59:55 PM »

Quote from: 6739264 on October 27, 2010, 11:46:04 AM

In all seriousness, (for this post only) ...

Numbers.....you do this again and we are going to lose respect for you...

JayC...numbers does raise a number of good points and they are well worth considering. The SOT and ICP processes in SAAS are very nefarious and somewhat incestuous. I'm sure to become a successful SOT candidate you need a picture of one of the senior management team in a compromising position with a farmyard animal. Contrast that with ACT for instance, where everyone joining the service is on a career path to become an ICP, and as part of your normal job rotation (thats right, no spending your career in a single station in BumfXXknowhere, protected from scrutiny) you rotate through the Snowy Rescue helicopter.

Be wary about thinking every day is a new adventure in the job. Currently, that is one of the biggest reasons for being disillusioned given by new grads after a few years on the road. Doesnt matter how u dress it up, the boring and repetitive stuff will always be just that - and theres a good deal of it; it's not all about getting your SPRINT car airborne over a traffic island at an intersection - or maybe it should be

I'm sure Boredy will offer you his pearls of wisdom regards his career.....just be wary if he asks you to try on the sheep costume

jayc · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2010, 04:03:45 PM »

Quote from: misterteddy on October 27, 2010, 01:59:55 PM

Quote from: 6739264 on October 27, 2010, 11:46:04 AM
In all seriousness, (for this post only) ...

Numbers.....you do this again and we are going to lose respect for you...

JayC...numbers does raise a number of good points and they are well worth considering. The SOT and ICP processes in SAAS are very nefarious and somewhat incestuous. I'm sure to become a successful SOT candidate you need a picture of one of the senior management team in a compromising position with a farmyard animal. Contrast that with ACT for instance, where everyone joining the service is on a career path to become an ICP, and as part of your normal job rotation (thats right, no spending your career in a single station in BumfXXknowhere, protected from scrutiny) you rotate through the Snowy Rescue helicopter.

Be wary about thinking every day is a new adventure in the job. Currently, that is one of the biggest reasons for being disillusioned given by new grads after a few years on the road. Doesnt matter how u dress it up, the boring and repetitive stuff will always be just that - and theres a good deal of it; it's not all about getting your SPRINT car airborne over a traffic island at an intersection - or maybe it should be

I'm sure Boredy will offer you his pearls of wisdom regards his career.....just be wary if he asks you to try on the sheep costume

Haha! Well, if I ever did end up getting employed by SAAS, at least I'd know my colleagues have a good sense of humour

Thanks for the info, i really appreciate it.
i'll look into ACTAS... do they employ grad students? In fact, do any canberaa universities offer a paramedic course?

Sounds interesting though!

No Care 1 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2010, 07:30:55 PM »

The odds of getting a job aren't good in SA because we continue to use volunteer labour in large numbers. In Victoria, NSW or QLD many country locations would be a career station.

bittenyakka · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2010, 08:18:10 PM »

This is a good thread, i am not in and emergency service in a paid role and i kinda get the dream of not wanting a dull job and doing cool stuff etc. Remember it isn't so much about what you are doing ( that does count) but who you work with. Also every job has its bad/boring bits and SAAS/MFS... .will be no different.

jayc · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2010, 11:26:19 PM »

No Care - I definitely wouldn't have voted for Foley&Rann... if I were old enough to vote that is haha... I agree that we, like vic, nsw, qld, should employ more qualified paramedics (but then again, my opinion is a little biased

).
An article I read the other day made a similar point, saying: if they aren't willing to staff our stations with career paramedics, they're "not just hurting [prospective paramedics], they're also hurting the essential services to all people that this government has a duty to deliver."

Quote from: bittenyakka on October 27, 2010, 08:18:10 PM

This is a good thread, i am not in and emergency service in a paid role and i kinda get the dream of not wanting a dull job and doing cool stuff etc. Remember it isn't so much about what you are doing ( that does count) but who you work with. Also every job has its bad/boring bits and SAAS/MFS... .will be no different.

thanks bittenyakka, those are some good points;
I think this job would attract a very particular type of person, and I like to believe, that if you were to become a paramedic, you'd work alongside like-minded people. And you're right - I'm sure this job has its boring bits; but (in my opinion) the positives would outweigh the negatives.

I'm reaaallly looking forward to uni next year, and to developing a better understanding of this job after some sort of practical placement! .......assuming I actually get a spot in the degree that is

misterteddy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2010, 07:16:10 AM »

Quote from: No Care 1 on October 27, 2010, 07:30:55 PM

The odds of getting a job aren't good in SA because we continue to use volunteer labour in large numbers. For example goolws is a SAAS volley station with 600+ jobs per year workload ( and struggle to man their ambulance), in Victoria, NSW or QLD they would be a career station with guaranteed staffing and paramedic level care. But as foley said in parliament today "sh# t happens"

we use volunteer labour because in most cases, paid staff cant be enticed to move away from the comfort of a hospital 4 mins away. Goolwa (1500 jobs a year, not 600) and Strath (around 1100 cases a year) are exceptions, and theres no doubt that in a year or so they will have a mixed model of manning as SAAS continues to make the process of being a Volunteer more difficult, and the good people move on. But lets face it, the next busiest Vol station is Mallala, tell me we are going to get enough people to man there when we cant fill spots at Murray Bridge now? Given Goolwa works harder than Woodside, maybe we should swap and return Woodside as a Vol station

Most states use volunteer workforces of some description in their Ambulance Services. With our city-centric population, we have no hope of meaningfully increasing the number without a serious attitude change from some staff, and some serious $$ from the Gov.....and if they happen, well, I'll line up at the airport to watch the pigs take off and land in my retirement.

As for Comrade Foley....if the Union let him off the hook with that comment...then they get what they deserve.

Alan (Big Al) · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2010, 09:26:25 AM »

Quote from: No Care 1 on October 27, 2010, 07:30:55 PM

The odds of getting a job aren't good in SA because we continue to use volunteer labour in large numbers. For example goolws is a SAAS volley station with 600+ jobs per year workload ( and struggle to man their ambulance), in Victoria, NSW or QLD they would be a career station with guaranteed staffing and paramedic level care. But as foley said in parliament today "sh# t happens"

Believe their call numbers topped 1500 calls last year however being the most profitable saas station in the state i think they want to leave it volly for as long as possible.

Ninja edit.. oops didnt see that misterteddy had already corrected call numbers