Author Topic: HyperYelp/HyperLo  (Read 10047 times)

Offline Alex

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HyperYelp/HyperLo
« on: January 04, 2011, 07:27:50 AM »
Is there any reason the new CFS appliances with code 3 microcom sirens are coming out with these functions de-activated? It is easy enough to change, but i am curious as to why there not set up as standard.

Is it a case of the HyperYelp and HyperLo not meeting any certain standard?

Offline Alan (Big Al)

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 08:51:24 AM »
Maybe thats the factory settings and they just dont bother to flip the switch when they are installed??

I have found hyper yelp to be reasonably effective, hard to judge if its more effective than "normal" siren tones.

And as for the sirens in the new 34's they are shocking compared to the code 3,, seem very cheap.
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Offline 6739264

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 07:37:13 PM »
Good god, vollo's can't use the current Wail/Yelp/Manual/Hi-Lo/Mix/PA and you expect them to deal with another TWO tones? They'll have a nervous breakdown!

Actually, I think I'll change that to: "Can't use wail/yelp correctly - let alone anything else"
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Alex

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 01:25:57 PM »
Good god, vollo's can't use the current Wail/Yelp/Manual/Hi-Lo/Mix/PA and you expect them to deal with another TWO tones? They'll have a nervous breakdown!

Actually, I think I'll change that to: "Can't use wail/yelp correctly - let alone anything else"


Thanks for the useful info.

misterteddy

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 02:34:02 PM »
Good god, vollo's can't use the current Wail/Yelp/Manual/Hi-Lo/Mix/PA and you expect them to deal with another TWO tones? They'll have a nervous breakdown!

Actually, I think I'll change that to: "Can't use wail/yelp correctly - let alone anything else"

difficult to bother using anything remotely concerned with sirens when the CFS do such a wonderful job of making it so user friendly for the driver to operate (remember he is the one with the responsibility for the safe passage of the appliance - not the officer). Putting a small, multifunction control 90degs from your line of sight and in the darkest place in the vehicle so that you are forced to take your eyes off the road, just as u approach the higher risk areas, like intersections,  is certainly the best way to get people to screw it up and then not be bothered using it properly - take a bow CFS


At least SAAS can get it almost right with a foot change up button as well as a duplicate on the vehicle horn. Much easier, and safer

I'm sure CFS are sick of my near miss forms regarding them :)

Offline 6739264

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 09:02:35 PM »
Thanks for the useful info.

Someone's gotta provide it, god knows you can't.

difficult to bother using anything remotely concerned with sirens when the CFS do such a wonderful job of making it so user friendly for the driver to operate (remember he is the one with the responsibility for the safe passage of the appliance - not the officer). Putting a small, multifunction control 90degs from your line of sight and in the darkest place in the vehicle so that you are forced to take your eyes off the road, just as u approach the higher risk areas, like intersections,  is certainly the best way to get people to screw it up and then not be bothered using it properly - take a bow CFS


At least SAAS can get it almost right with a foot change up button as well as a duplicate on the vehicle horn. Much easier, and safer

I'm sure CFS are sick of my near miss forms regarding them :)

Simply put, the driver drives and the Officer operates the warning devices. The driver shouldn't have to be doing anything more than driving, and the OIC really should be experienced enough to read the traffic and road and switch between wail and yelp at the appropriate times.

It's not hard.
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline Alex

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 10:52:45 PM »
Thanks for the useful info.

Someone's gotta provide it, god knows you can't.


Your a useless fu ck mate. Your post bore no relevance to the thread, hence my reply. You and several others are the reason this forum has never been more than a joke.

Hiding behind an alias and doing nothing more than trolling is not contributing.

Mods feel free to do whatever you like.

misterteddy

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 01:53:20 AM »
Simply put, the driver drives and the Officer operates the warning devices. The driver shouldn't have to be doing anything more than driving, and the OIC really should be experienced enough to read the traffic and road and switch between wail and yelp at the appropriate times.

It's not hard.

I guess if your experience is only the MFS, or an MFS wannabe Brigade, then thats the way you think. They are wedded to that thinking, but it's actually flawed. Maybe its just that SOs are control freaks and still want to feel like they are part of the game. Maybe its just that MFS guys cant drive....I don't know. Actually, as I said, it's the driver's responsibility. Failure to correctly operate the warning devices that contributes to or causes an accident/incident, and the driver wears it - HE/SHE is in legal control of the vehicle. The officer SHOULD be doing much more important scheiße on the way to a job, like listening/talking on all 3 (or more) radios , listening for oncoming appliances, pre-plans, crew allocations, thinking about bomber use,and a 1000 other more useful things at a fire, than worrying about when to change the siren from wail to yip.

 But then, you wont agree Numbers.....life's like that

Offline chook

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 05:34:56 AM »
Just to take some of the "heat" out & to share some insight gained from the course I did (Drive Vehicles under Operational conditions - on roads as Response/P1) as part of the assessesment the driver had to correctly operate the sirens (wail/yelp)as it was the drivers responibility. The training was developed from the NSWFB, NSW ambulance service & police training. Whilst I agree Numbers the team leader could operate this change switches, it is the drivers job at the end of the day as per MT's last comments. I also agree with MT the switches are often mounted in stupid spots. Just for your interest - to ensure we got it right we were trained on one vehicle but had to do the two practical assessments in vehicles that we had not driven! That made for interesting times :wink: You soon learned where the switches could possibly be mounted.
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Ken
just another retard!

Monger

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 07:14:06 AM »
Simply put, the driver drives and the Officer operates the warning devices. The driver shouldn't have to be doing anything more than driving, and the OIC really should be experienced enough to read the traffic and road and switch between wail and yelp at the appropriate times.

It's not hard.

I guess if your experience is only the MFS, or an MFS wannabe Brigade, then thats the way you think. They are wedded to that thinking, but it's actually flawed. Maybe its just that SOs are control freaks and still want to feel like they are part of the game. Maybe its just that MFS guys cant drive....I don't know. Actually, as I said, it's the driver's responsibility. Failure to correctly operate the warning devices that contributes to or causes an accident/incident, and the driver wears it - HE/SHE is in legal control of the vehicle. The officer SHOULD be doing much more important filtered on the way to a job, like listening/talking on all 3 (or more) radios , listening for oncoming appliances, pre-plans, crew allocations, thinking about bomber use,and a 1000 other more useful things at a fire, than worrying about when to change the siren from wail to yip.

 But then, you wont agree Numbers.....life's like that

MFS driver would need filtered long arms to operate the wail/yelp!!!!

Offline 6739264

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 09:23:32 AM »
Your a useless fu ck mate. Your post bore no relevance to the thread, hence my reply. You and several others are the reason this forum has never been more than a joke.

Hiding behind an alias and doing nothing more than trolling is not contributing.

Mods feel free to do whatever you like.

Straight to the heart! Have you tried meditation? You seem very cranky. There are many reasons why this forum has never been more than a joke, and most of them are pretty much the same reasons why the CFS in many respects is nothing more than a joke.

And perhaps just to clear something up, as your anger seems to be clouding your reading comprehension, my original post was, in a horribly offense manner, trying to suggest that we have no training for correct siren operation and that as 90% of CFS volunteers are unable to operate the basic controls correctly, why should they get an extra two tones to try and use properly?

Do you give a station that can't operate a 24 a Heavy Pumper? Of course not! (oh wait...)

I guess if your experience is only the MFS, or an MFS wannabe Brigade, then thats the way you think. They are wedded to that thinking, but it's actually flawed. Maybe its just that SOs are control freaks and still want to feel like they are part of the game. Maybe its just that MFS guys cant drive....I don't know. Actually, as I said, it's the driver's responsibility. Failure to correctly operate the warning devices that contributes to or causes an accident/incident, and the driver wears it - HE/SHE is in legal control of the vehicle. The officer SHOULD be doing much more important filtered on the way to a job, like listening/talking on all 3 (or more) radios , listening for oncoming appliances, pre-plans, crew allocations, thinking about bomber use,and a 1000 other more useful things at a fire, than worrying about when to change the siren from wail to yip.

 But then, you wont agree Numbers.....life's like that

I agree with your basic premise regarding who is "in control" of the vehicle as per legislation. At the end of the day, anything that vehicle does is the responsibility of the driver.

In terms of common sense, (especially when driving manual vehicles) I think that the less the driver has to do the better. Not to mention that only a small portion of CFS vols are regular truck drivers and an even smaller portion are regular emergency drivers.

The setup of the siren controls in the current 34P's is a pain, but way better than having it at the rear of the console like the older 24/24P. The Type 2 Pumper with the ACS console accessible by both driver and OIC, plus the OIC stomp switch is a pretty good setup that allows either person to operate the necessary controls.

Sure the OIC has a few other things he should be doing route, but so has the driver (Appliance siting, Booster ID, Hydrant ID, not hitting other vehicles, etc, etc) and is it really that hard to mash a stomp switch to change from wail to yelp and back again while you're talking on the radio? (although the same could be said for a driver side stomp switch)

As long as the driver doesn't need to take his hands off the wheel, it could well work. I've little experience with stomp switches on the driver side, only the old ACCO High beam stomp switch. So it could work...

If only the trucks were auto, it'd be so much easier...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 11:56:54 AM »
Who cares......

They still don't get out of your way!

pumprescue

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 12:23:22 PM »
Federal Q's and Grover air horns.....

Offline 561

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 12:30:21 PM »
Only thing in my experience that cleared the traffic in my SAMFS days was the air horn on our LUP (fleet 166).......might have been a "little" truck but it made a BIG noise!

pumprescue

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 01:58:54 PM »
Yeah they have the proper air horns, under the front bumper....little trucks lots of noise

Offline 6739264

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2011, 02:35:47 PM »
Nothing like a pair of Air Horns to strongly suggest to a vacant minded motorist that they should perhaps move...
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline robin14

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2011, 02:56:17 PM »
Just to take some of the "heat" out & to share some insight gained from the course I did (Drive Vehicles under Operational conditions - on roads as Response/P1) as part of the assessesment the driver had to correctly operate the sirens (wail/yelp)as it was the drivers responibility. The training was developed from the NSWFB, NSW ambulance service & police training. Whilst I agree Numbers the team leader could operate this change switches, it is the drivers job at the end of the day as per MT's last comments. I also agree with MT the switches are often mounted in stupid spots. Just for your interest - to ensure we got it right we were trained on one vehicle but had to do the two practical assessments in vehicles that we had not driven! That made for interesting times :wink: You soon learned where the switches could possibly be mounted.
cheers

Well it didnt come from the NSWFB as when they do their driver training they are told to drive and the IC worry about the siren with the foot pedal to change the siren, driver is their to drive and operate pump and not worrying bout siren changes.

Offline 6739264

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2011, 03:25:29 PM »
Just to take some of the "heat" out & to share some insight gained from the course I did (Drive Vehicles under Operational conditions - on roads as Response/P1) as part of the assessesment the driver had to correctly operate the sirens (wail/yelp)as it was the drivers responibility. The training was developed from the NSWFB, NSW ambulance service & police training.

How does this compare with the SACFS course? Obviously, Chook, you haven't done it, but can a SACFS person that has done it possibly suggest a comparison? As far as I was aware, not having done the SACFS DUOC course, siren use wasn't really taught. I hope I can be shown to be wrong... It might just brighten my day!

Was it really a collaborative effort by all three services? That seems like a massive step forward in this day and age. Bonus points to NSWSES if they managed it.
To think they employed me as a drooling retard...

Offline gilfire99

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 02:48:08 PM »
The NSW Rural Fire Service covers siren use in its Rural Fire Driving (RFD) course. The new Category 1 (equiv. 34/34P) and 7 (between 14 and 24) share a common centre console. Siren controls are on the drivers side near front with a wail/yelp change also on the horn button, radios, GPS phone etc. are all on officers side. I find it a good setup from either job perspective. Over here the driver has the responsibilty for the vehicle operation and safety but the OIC determines the level of response and what warning devices are activated. An example would be the OIC directing lights only response to an MVA out of our small town at 2.00 in the morning (no sense having everyone awake is there!)
NSWRFS District Officer, Learning & Development Officer, Castlereagh Zone, Gilgandra NSW
Ex Kangarilla Brigade SACFS

Offline smiff77

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2011, 09:57:50 AM »
From A CFA perspective, it is very clearly stated in the Chief Officers SOP's that the driver is in control of the vehicle and the warning devices. Most appliances now only have controls within reach of driver, although some older ones maybe within reach of Passenger as well.

Offline chook

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Re: HyperYelp/HyperLo
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2011, 05:49:03 AM »
Yes Numbers - a need was identified by the service & they went out & got help from the other services mentioned (there was however a long lead time between identified need & the first pilot) And yep we work the same as RFS - OIC decides level of response, driver operates lights, sirens etc. What was really good was we got to see how NSWFB & the ambulance service do it using vision from their dash mounted cameras - including hearing what they were saying (very calm :) ). So we saw a practical use of wail vs yelp. There is a down side though - currently there is a "major" discussion around the issue of public roads & training! Until someone can decide on what the go is, this is a real problem. As for the 4x4 type DUOC 4x4 cse (which is similar to the RFD course?) there will be a partial recognition of prior learning, however the competencies cover differ enough to require further thought. Finally our new vehicles come out with the switches mounted nearer to the driver similar to RFS.
cheers
Ken
just another retard!

 

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