Author Topic: PTS  (Read 27017 times)

Offline ambogirl

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PTS
« on: January 17, 2011, 11:52:41 AM »
Does anyone know of any casual PTS positions coming up this year? I heard there is a move to private ambulance companies supposedly happening before june so what is going to happen with SAAS patient transport?

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: PTS
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2011, 12:44:55 PM »
A stack of jobs to be advertised shortly is the rumour.

Privates not having as big an impact on SAAS's workload as first anticipated.

Offline amboman69

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Re: PTS
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 10:55:51 PM »
A bunch of new PTS cars are starting next week covering 24/7 and they are a little stretched for staff to fill the extra shifts.  Have heard a rumour that the latest bunch of casuals will be the last ones advertised for in the usual way and that future casuals will be drawn from the Uni ranks. No real substance to this, just something I heard on the road

Offline amboman69

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Re: PTS
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 10:59:10 PM »
PS, the reason for the extra PTS is so that ESS can be relieved of Cat 6s so that they in turn can take up Cat 4s and some Cat Cs (eventually, maybe 80% of them) so that Emerg can concentrate on Cat A & B.

No Care 1

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Re: PTS
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 05:54:09 AM »
A bunch of new PTS cars are starting next week covering 24/7 and they are a little stretched for staff to fill the extra shifts.  Have heard a rumour that the latest bunch of casuals will be the last ones advertised for in the usual way and that future casuals will be drawn from the Uni ranks. No real substance to this, just something I heard on the road

You are right a course started redcently I believe. They are all uni students or graduates who are waiting to start their internship later this year.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 07:04:26 PM by No Care 1 »

pumprescue

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Re: PTS
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 11:59:39 AM »
Why would you just recruit from the uni's, you would know full well you aren't going to have long term employee's from this.

Is there such a thing as a permenant PTS ? Or do you move up to ESS ?

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Re: PTS
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 10:27:46 PM »
Why would you just recruit from the uni's, you would know full well you aren't going to have long term employee's from this.

Is there such a thing as a permenant PTS ? Or do you move up to ESS ?

it's a lazy HR/Recruitment approach. They get a look at the new meat before they graduate, see their work ethic, and then see which ones are worth the offer of a Paramedic Internship

There are long term permanent ATS members currently

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: PTS
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 10:39:34 PM »
It's so they can minimize the number of crusty old farts on ATS.

No Care 1

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Re: PTS
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 05:30:25 AM »
It's so they can minimize the number of crusty old farts on ATS.

And for paramedics (old and young) have somewhere to go.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 07:05:02 PM by No Care 1 »

Offline excelcare

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Re: PTS
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 07:39:21 AM »
Total waste of tax payers' funds since going government. :-P

Offline jayc

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Re: PTS
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 08:31:41 PM »
A bunch of new PTS cars are starting next week covering 24/7 and they are a little stretched for staff to fill the extra shifts.  Have heard a rumour that the latest bunch of casuals will be the last ones advertised for in the usual way and that future casuals will be drawn from the Uni ranks. No real substance to this, just something I heard on the road

You are right a course started yesterday from what I believe. They are all uni students or graduates who are waiting to start their internship later this year. They are on a temp. 5 month PTS contract. They do a 2 week quick training course only and must work with a qualified Cert. 4 Transport Officer. I had heard the PTS casual recruitment and course, due to start in Late Feb/Early March had been cancelled, but it might be rescheduled later?


does anyone know how far into the degree you need to be before you're eligible to apply for NEPT with SAAS or an equivalent provider?
would a student who has done their first year at flinders (and has consequently been trained to bls level) be eligible?
If so, is it plausible (time-wise) to work as a PTO while you study?

And would experience as a PTO significantly improve the student's employability with SAAS as a paramedic...?

cheers


No Care 1

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Re: PTS
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 08:57:18 PM »
Jayc.

Your talking about 2 different beasts.

Uni doesn't qualify u to do PTS.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 07:05:37 PM by No Care 1 »

Offline amboman69

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Re: PTS
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2011, 12:19:30 PM »
Just a few observations on the above discussion:

Crusty Old Farts - Employing Non Emergency Services (NES) staff from the Uni ranks does not get rid of the COFs - they will be there until the reaper drives them away in the Big Black Ambulance. COFs and for that matter "Failed and Disaffected Paramedics" (FDPs) give Non Emergency Services a bad name and are universally disliked by the PTS/ESS members who see their part of the job as a valuable resource.

Why recruit Uni students? - Initially it was more of a political move because the students were not securing casual positions through traditional recruitment processes - they did not have the maturity or ability to put their clinical knowledge into practice. Now it looks like the rationale is to save on training time. From memory,the first few Cert IV intakes (Community Studies) were 14 or 16 weeks in the classroom with lots of practical assignments in between.

Quote
Being a PTS officer does not increase your chances of getting a paramedic intern job.
.

Don't for a minute think that the attitude and knowledge of Uni Casuals (good and bad) goes unnoticed on station.  Make yourself a pain to your partner (who may be a COF) and the word will get around big time.  You may make the internship, but you will be carrying a big question mark on your back from Day 1.

Also, don't think that an internship is the same as a job. Initially only a small percentage of the first graduate groups actually got into SAAS at paramedic level.  Questions were asked in parliament as to why SAAS was not employing SA graduates etc etc.  It was my understanding at the time that an Internship program would result in the maximum number of graduates being employed by SAAS - at least for 12 months or so.  This stopped the "Ministerials" and gave SAAS more breathing room in selecting permanent staff.

The downside of this is that SAAS generally takes the easy way out and tends to offers unsuccessful interns ESS/PTS positions rather than giving them the flick - topping up the Non Emergency COF/FDP gene pool

Offline jayc

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Re: PTS
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2011, 02:57:14 PM »
"Also, don't think that an internship is the same as a job. Initially only a small percentage of the first graduate groups actually got into SAAS at paramedic level."

How many graduates got the internship? And how many interns progressed to become paramedics?
And is the internship unique to SA? You've made it sound as though someone with a para degree will have trouble gaining employment here. How does this compare to interstate?>

"Questions were asked in parliament as to why SAAS was not employing SA graduates etc etc."

Why weren't they?

What's the 'veteran' paramedic's view on the graduates applying for these internships? I hope they aren;tautomatically presumed to be incapable of doing a job they've studied for 3 years to do... simply because they haven't had as many birthdays as everyone else, or because they haven't taken the traditional pathway.


"The downside of this is that SAAS generally takes the easy way out and tends to offers unsuccessful interns ESS/PTS positions rather than giving them the flick - topping up the Non Emergency COF/FDP gene pool"

Have the unsuccessful graduates been employed in NEPT on a permanent basis? Does SAAS have a view to try and upgrade these graduates to paramedic level in the future?

« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 03:00:46 PM by jayc »

No Care 1

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Re: PTS
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2011, 03:13:55 PM »
"

What's the 'veteran' paramedic's view on the graduates applying for these internships? I hope they aren;tautomatically presumed to be incapable of doing a job they've studied for 3 years to do... simply because they haven't had as many birthdays as everyone else,




JayC the answer to this question is easy yes alot of older paramedics think that way
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 07:06:39 PM by No Care 1 »

Offline jayc

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Re: PTS
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »
the figures aren't as bad as what i thought. as for the stigma though...

while i understand some of these interns may not be up to par, those sorts of generalizations are still unfair.
I wonder if Dr. Grantham's involvement with FUSA will affect the way in which graduates are received by SAAS...?

I agree, the WA model looks good. It'd become clear pretty quickly who works well in a practical sense and who doesn't...

But we do have 500hrs practical placement here, and a lot of your mark comes from practical examination. So as long as you take the candidates with good GPAs, then practical adeptness shouldn't be an issue.
To me the complusory two years of post yr12 work is meaningless. Although I guess they'd need a few years to get their full licence...

edit... what's your experience with students on placement/ para interns been like?



« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 08:49:20 PM by jayc »

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: PTS
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 06:39:32 AM »
the stigma isn't because they're uni trained.

the stigma is because they're all coming out with the attitude that they know everything already - and then they fall over at the first hurdle they get to in a job when you let them go.

granted- they're not all like it, but the majority will speak for the minority.

the best ones are those who've had a life outside of ambulance and have gone back to study and then come out on the road.  At least they have the ability to talk to someone without being aggressive, condescending or downright rude! (and that's not even the patients!)

Offline jayc

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Re: PTS
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2011, 09:23:42 AM »
the stigma isn't because they're uni trained.

the stigma is because they're all coming out with the attitude that they know everything already - and then they fall over at the first hurdle they get to in a job when you let them go.

granted- they're not all like it, but the majority will speak for the minority.

the best ones are those who've had a life outside of ambulance and have gone back to study and then come out on the road.  At least they have the ability to talk to someone without being aggressive, condescending or downright rude! (and that's not even the patients!)


fair enough bored.
I have a lot of respect foir paramedics and for the profession. so i know that personally i'll always approach this career path with a lot of humility.Now especially, after seeing how graduates tend to be perceived, and what's lead to this perception...
cheers

Knackers

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Re: PTS
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2011, 05:49:02 PM »
Geez BM, who you been working with??? I find the majority of the people I work with pretty decent people, both grads/interns/degree through to diploma. I would think that it is more of a personal behaviour rather then whether or not they entered the service via a grad/intern program.

I do think life experience is important though.

Offline amboman69

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Re: PTS
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2011, 10:20:46 PM »
A bit of wavy history (others more in the know feel free to correct my GOF memory)

Cannot remember the exact numbers, but the first few groups of grads were about 16-20 per graduating class.  There was no such thing as an internship and the idea was that graduates would apply for jobs using traditional practices.  Successful applicants were only going to spend something like 12 weeks in training before becoming paramedics

Something like 2-4 people got accepted from one of the initial groups and an irate parent who had forked out many thousands in uni fees went to their parliamentarian. The initial number of successful job seekers was inflated somewhat to the Press and parliament by offering some of the unsuccessful applicants ATS jobs.  After this, SAAS management rethought the whole process and the end result was the development of the Internship (initially 12 months??) which was then further stretched out to include the NES components.

Quote
What's the 'veteran' paramedic's view on the graduates applying for these internships? I hope they aren;tautomatically presumed to be incapable of doing a job they've studied for 3 years to do... simply because they haven't had as many birthdays as everyone else,

Yep - that is pretty much the view - just the same as it is for any graduate in any profession.  Uni does not teach you how to do a job, it just gives you a truckload of generic knowledge.  In every profession you have to empty the bedpans and clean up the lab before they award you the Nobel Prize

There is a great scene in "Nurse Jackie" where she tells her graduate nurse to put her finger on a dressing on the neck of a trauma victim.  "But you always treat me like a child - I want to do something important", says the Newbie.
Nurse Jackie tells her to take her finger away from the dressing, which dramatically shoots off under the pressure of an arterial bleed.  Nurse Jackie: "See, it IS important"

Offline boredmatrix

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Re: PTS
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2011, 11:32:18 PM »
Bugger off knackers....it's not about being nice- it's about being competent.

....And no....I don't care that you can tell me how knowledge of Sgarbossa's  criteria can make young better clinician if you sit there for 25 mins trying to diagnose the infarction while the patient quietly wanders toward the light at the end of the tunnel. 


misterteddy

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Re: PTS
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2011, 01:15:03 AM »
sadly you're both right

The sad fact is that the Flinders degree does not prepare the graduate to be a paramedic on graduation (nor in FU's defence do many of the degrees around the place). It does a pretty average job of preparing a kid out of school for a job in SA Health

In my not so humble opinion (for those that know me) - there are very few professions where you can't do what you studied for once you finish. There is a degree ('scuse the pun) of cynicism from staff when it come to new grads..... many of their forebears are to blame for this with their non fragrant manure beliefs. Having said that, I watch new Grads all the time opting out of the little stuff, the not so glamorous and the dirty, thankless stuff. I don't think its a new phenomina, its just that in the days when we used to do that, we had some old fossil kicking our can earlier in the piece.....these days they just arrive at the can kicking rotation later in life and fuller of their own filtered liquid waste and importance.

It's up to the profession to sort out a meaningful career education profile and make sure they get better value for the money the Govt spends (in HECS). Sadly while its only CAA having a say on the end product, its unlikely to improve. Having a highly educated but poorly skilled and poorly utilised workforce that earns a shiteload of $$ isnt really in anyones interests....... most of all the patients who could do with a hand occasionally.


Offline bittenyakka

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Re: PTS
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 08:40:02 AM »
In my not so humble opinion (for those that know me) - there are very few professions where you can't do what you studied for once you finish.



Is this right? don;t you mean Can?

misterteddy

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Re: PTS
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 12:23:35 PM »
In my not so humble opinion (for those that know me) - there are very few professions where you can't do what you studied for once you finish.



Is this right? don;t you mean Can?

Umm....yes it's right.... There are very very few professions where you can not be employed in that profession the day after you graduate. Medicine and Pharmacy are the only ones I can think of.

When u finish Nursing, you are able to be employed next day as a Nurse. Same as for Engineer, Accountant, Lawyer (with a few restrictions), any other of the Para-Medical streams (OT, Physio, Radiographer etc). Its just that some Ambulance Services (and Ambulance folks)can't get their head around the concept, CAA hasnt made Universities accountable for their product AND no-one has told the students whats expected of them AND made them accountable either.

To keep it well and truly on topic - great motivation  for a brand new qualifed Paramedic....stuck in a PTS/ESS truck with a bitter and twisted old Ambo, full of woe about the organisation and how it wasnt like that it was in their day. No wonder they look down on them and don't listen to them....the good info is buried under layers of b/s.

As an aside.....as a Cert IV unpaid type Ambo Occifer  :-D ...... finish the exam one day, full crew the next day (and possibly in charge of a Cert II)

Offline bajdas

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Re: PTS
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2011, 04:26:13 PM »
Similar in the IT industry as well.

A fresh graduate will not be allowed to take full control of a companies network. They would be started on the help desk phone or maintenance with supervision.

Everyone needs experience which the tertiary institutions do not seem to provide.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

 

anything