Author Topic: New 24 prototype  (Read 33115 times)

Offline kiwifirefighter

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New 24 prototype
« on: November 01, 2011, 09:16:35 PM »
What do people think of the new prototype 24 tanker that is planned to be built

Offline Zippy

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 09:27:04 PM »
Crewdeck :/

Offline mengcfs

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 08:24:17 AM »
As Arthur states in his October Infralog "Yes it is different - we need to stimulate debate!

pumprescue

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 10:16:51 AM »
I think it will fill in a large gap, the 34's are way to big for the likes of say Basket Range, Cherryville, even Norton Summit, I say bring it on, make a good basic rural appliance, should still be able to get some airsets on it for those that have it as their main appliance.

I have noticed taking our's out that compared to the Hino 24 the new one is a monster and doesn't go half the places the Hino went. Yes the Hino was VERY basic, but as a rural only appliance you can't beat it.

34's out on the plains or remote areas are great, and could even go to the extent of having single cab 44's or dare I say 54's !

I am sure some tweeking will be done, so long as they don't shelve it after 1 try like the 24 that ended up at Burnside.

Offline Pipster

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 02:09:02 PM »
A 24 is what we have been asking for in my area - 34's are just too big for us.

I think I read it only has one side line, not two.....?  If so, I think that is a mistake.

Any 24 must have some capacity to take a couple of BA sets, chainsaw & traffic control stuff (which is pretty much what we have at the moment) - and 5 or 6 crew. 

In my area, a crew deck is pretty much a waste of space, but a twin cab would be very useful.

We need to supply the feedback, and hopefully end up with a decent new appliance in about 3 years, when our old 24 comes up to its 20 years!!!

Pip
There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline kiwifirefighter

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 03:14:56 PM »
I think that the leftside rear locker could be extended to the front end of the water tank for extra locker capacity, as currently drawn this area is a waste of space unless your as thin as a stick.  The crew deck should stay as a statewide fire service, these vehicles need to be able to deal with all types of rural fire suituations.  I agree that these sort of vehicle would suit the areas in the hills where more water is available and a smaller appliance is required.

misterteddy

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 03:57:15 PM »
I agree, a small crewdeck able to service both sides of the appliance (without extending down the sides of the appliance) is certainly required in an appliance like this. I agree with Pip.... 2 decent 90m live hose reels please. 30m or even 60m means your hardly off the road before you need to add lengths.

When are we going to source some decent Tanker replacements now?..... with 10k of water and 6x4 drivetrains that will get it most places an appliance will go? Theres a challenge Arthur...

Offline boss

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 09:25:51 PM »
the way the main work area is set up. is the same as the tassie 14 really meant for one person use only .
And for the 34's yes there abit big for around the hills area but be grate full you guys got them and not a toy water gun mounted a push bike that's all i can say
we save lives, we breath smoke, we eat ash, why do we do it? cos it's a way of life for us that we have chosen to take

pumprescue

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2011, 10:02:24 PM »
So what your saying is just keep quite and be happy because it's new.....this is why we never progress, to many just happy because it's new and shiny!!

Offline boss

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 09:22:40 PM »
So what your saying is just keep quite and be happy because it's new.....this is why we never progress, to many just happy because it's new and shiny!!

yes a new 24 would be good a bit of mod it could work better then what they have drew up so far.... no im saying just be grateful you guys have / getting the newer truck there's quite a lot of stations with older trucks that need up grading so in other word if your station is running an isuzu FTS750 or a hino pro ranger 8z  you don't need an isuzu FTS800 to replace them. early to mid 90's depending on k's and age yes up grade them
we save lives, we breath smoke, we eat ash, why do we do it? cos it's a way of life for us that we have chosen to take

pumprescue

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 10:22:56 AM »
You don't seem to understand fleet management at all.

Example - Appliance A is from a brigade that is busy, does a lot of strike teams, etc racks up several thousand kms a year not to mention operating hours.

         Appliance B does maybe 10 calls a year, all local area and in 20 years has racked up 5000 kms, doesn't go on strike teams.


As a fleet manager why would you leave Truck A in the same brigade for 20 years and find its stuffed after 10 and needs lots of money spent when you can leave it Appliance A at the first station for 5 years, get some kms up, get some bugs ironed out and get some high usage out of it, then pass it onto the second brigade that does the 10 calls all in the local area, its still modern, nothing wrong with it, and can live quitely doing a few runs a year.

Perhaps better still have 3 levels, Busy, middle range and very quite, get maximum value, rather than spending $300,000 for a truck that will be lucky to  leave the station 100 times in its life time.

Now I wait for the rants "the deserve the morale boost" "they see more fire than region 1" blah blah blah.

Its not longer the days of when the local council paid for it, so they should adopt a more stringent plan.

But of course no one wants to think of the big picture.

Offline boss

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 02:52:25 PM »
what I'm inapplying is everyone get a new truck then start up date again eg the  brand new last fts750 to go to whoop whoop brigade in region 6 then region 1 din dong brigade gets an fts800 and there truck go's to action to pay for the next new fts800 truck for joe blow brigade in region 3. the trucks would have a higher resale with less K's on them . and if your truck is stuffed after 10yr with only 20 to 30,000 on the clock i would be wondering if a you guys need to start looking at taking it to a new service place to get it seen to or your crews need to start looking after things better then what they have been doing
we save lives, we breath smoke, we eat ash, why do we do it? cos it's a way of life for us that we have chosen to take

pumprescue

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 03:11:51 PM »
Aghhhhhh

Don't worry about it...

The auction money doesn't go back to the CFS....

Offline Pipster

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 03:30:12 PM »
I don't think the km travelled is the issue with some of these appliances in busy brigades.  It is more the number of times it is started from cold (pretty much every call) and goes flat out to the call, where it idles for some time, before ambling back to the station, ready to do it again. 

That type of driving is not generally conducive to good engine wear - but it is the nature of emergency vehicles.

Pip



There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

pumprescue

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 03:47:19 PM »
Anyway getting back to the 24, I hope the likes of Basket Range etc get to trial it where the 34's can't go, see if it is that much smaller or not. Can't beat those old 24's for rural work!

Offline Alan J

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 08:33:44 PM »
Locker space  :-(
Having just spent $4800 and a lot of hours on our new 34 to be able to carry a
chainsaw & some other regularly used bits & pieces. And improve accessibility to
hardware in others...
I think detail of the content stowage is more critical than general layout.
I'd want to see details of where everything is supposed to go before giving it
a thumbs up.

cheers
Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

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Offline bajdas

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2011, 02:10:08 AM »
How much weight (full water & equipped) should this type of vehicle be ?
That could affect your stowage plan & take off speed.
Andrew Macmichael
lives at Pt Noarlunga South.

My personal opinion only.

Offline bittenyakka

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2011, 05:10:36 PM »

I think I read it only has one side line, not two.....?  If so, I think that is a mistake.



Why are we so hooked on 2 live reels ?  it has the dead reel. If we can just get over always having a charged line with you i think loosing a sideline may be a good thing.

Offline kiwifirefighter

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 06:41:18 PM »
It is a good point, looking at some of the 34s being produced, most have a 25mm outlet, so having a dead reel means that one person can begin attacking the fire, whilst the hose is removed from the dead reel and then hook in and pulled out etcetc.  The crew deck on this appliance is different to the tasmanian appliance as this design allows for attacking fire from both sides, while allowing for more stowage on the appliance.

Offline Pipster

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2011, 08:34:36 PM »

I think I read it only has one side line, not two.....?  If so, I think that is a mistake.



Why are we so hooked on 2 live reels ?  it has the dead reel. If we can just get over always having a charged line with you i think loosing a sideline may be a good thing.


We use both live reels on the appliance.  And we find it easier to pick up the roll of 25 mm layflat, and carry that to the end of the existing hose, (layflat or hosereel) and bowl it out and connect, rather than pulling the length off a dead reel, and dragging it through the scrub, to connect it to where you want it.

Certainly in my area, it is not uncommon to take out 4, 5 or 6 lengths of layflat, and go up (or down ) a really steep hill, to get the water where you need it.  Bowling the hose out as you go is a better option for us.

Pip
There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline Alan J

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2011, 03:12:10 PM »
Yes I have done the Forestry F/F course.
No I am not comfortable with the idea of crew walking away from the appliance
with an unproven hose-line. This is a quite separate issue from absence of one
live reel though.

Rarely use more than one 25mm, so loss of one live reel would not hurt much.
The only time in last 15yrs I can recall two lines in use other than during
mop-up, was at a grass fire which ran past us like we weren't there anyway.

A dead reel of 3x 38mm might make more sense than of 25mm. Might be quicker
getting a line prepped for structure entry & the like. And be easily pulled
out to replace the first few lengths of rubber/25mm to give better delivery
on long lays.
Alan J.
Cherry Gdns CFS

Data isn't information.  Information isn't knowledge. 
Knowledge isn't wisdom.

Offline Pipster

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2011, 07:07:17 PM »
And therein lies the difference - we are regularly using both our 25mm side lines - pretty much every bushfire mop up....... so some brigades would use both, while others only need one...

It'd be nice if brigades could choose which they want, on any new vehicle of this type!

Pip
There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Offline ftstn

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2011, 08:14:46 PM »
should be easy enough if you use hermaphrodite couplings ( storz,wajax, forestry etc) the plumbing runs to a coupling in the hose reel then brigades can fit what ever they like on the reel.

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2011, 01:38:29 PM »
The crew deck should stay as a statewide fire service, these vehicles need to be able to deal with all types of rural fire suituations.

I completely disagree!  Putting a crew deck on an appliance in my station is about as useless as putting a 4000 lpm pump on Mount Hope 34.  We are a statewide fire service, which is why we need to be able to build different appliances to suit the different areas we cover.

I'd much rather have the extra locker space.

Offline kiwifirefighter

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Re: New 24 prototype
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2011, 05:54:30 PM »
regardless of where your station is located, a rural fire truck, whihc this 24 is should be able to deal with whatever rural fires it encounters as this applaince may end up in the outback, down the south east or the adelaide hills. Most brigades in the Adelaide hills will respond on strike teams whihc will take them to areas such as the fleurieu, KI or the upper south east where running grass fires do occur, which require a crew deck to fight effeciently.