wasting volunteers time

[Darius]

Heard a funny dummy spit this morning by South Coast SES to Adelaide Fire complaining why have Victor MFS been responded to "their" jobs as well and when they (SES) turn up there's nothing to be done.  He said they have wasted an hour this morning doing this.  The Adelaide Fire guy replied that that's the system and he should ring them and speak to a supervisor.

Frankly I'm surprised it seems to have taken someone in the SES this long to notice their time is being constantly wasted.  The SES are responded with different job numbers to CFS/MFS but to the same job, different talkgroups, and each service isn't told the other has also been responded.  Adelaide Fire, who should know who has been responded, don't pass on stop calls or sitreps from the first service to attend to any others. 

I have sympathy for the SES volunteers being mucked around like this and think the SES management have a lot to answer for.  I also think it's about time the SES management realised they are not an emergency service (there are so many examples why this is the case, eg. response pages in some cases just go to a single staff members pager and they chase up people via phone, sending someone out to recce things first before responding, units that respond 30mins, 1hr, 3hrs whatever later, and so on, all these mean it can't be an "emergency"), that doesn't mean the service they provide isn't valuable of course, just not an "emergency".  Unfortunately there's too much vested interest, it needs the safecom chief to smack some sense into them.

[pumprescue]

Pre CRD and pre CAD you just called SES when you actually needed them, they were happy, no stop calls, and every job they got to work. Every SES member I have spoken to said they want to go back to those days before its to late and they lose more members.

[SA Firey]

I heard that conversation to Dave, he wasn't happy

[Shiner]

In my area, M/Bridge SES now have access on GRN to the CFS/MFS talk groups.

Still working on it but have seen it work on a number of occasions.

Only issue so far is that the GRN's that the SES have can only be changed channel one at a time (so it takes ages) rather than inputting the channel you want to go to like the CFS hand-helds.

We also now have access to the duty-officer mobile number to ease the comms difficulties.

[Alex]

I also think it's about time the SES management realised they are not an emergency service (there are so many examples why this is the case, eg. response pages in some cases just go to a single staff members pager and they chase up people via phone, sending someone out to recce things first before responding, units that respond 30mins, 1hr, 3hrs whatever later, and so on, all these mean it can't be an "emergency"), that doesn't mean the service they provide isn't valuable of course, just not an "emergency".  Unfortunately there's too much vested interest, it needs the safecom chief to smack some sense into them.

Wow, what a very broad, uneducated and unfortunately typical statement.  You are obviously forgetting the areas that cover RCR, confined space, USAR, vertical rescue, etc etc? Or are you one of the "fire service should do it all" believers?

Not all "SES jobs" are true emergencies, and a lot of them are weeded out either at call receipt stage or by unit duty officers, however to claim that the SES as a whole is not an emergency service is a ridiculous statement, and if fishing, consider the hook well and truly taken

[Alex]

Adelaide Fire, who should know who has been responded, don't pass on stop calls or sitreps from the first service to attend to any others. 

We can only pass on information if we receive it
If & when stops are received they are passed on to all attending agencies.

[Alan (Big Al)]

After working with this unit for some 15 years now a dummy spit isnt surprising, i dont think they are used to other services helping them or getting "their" jobs done for them before they get there. I have no sympathy for them.
This is also the same unit who was monitoring local CFS talkgroups this morning and trying to self respond themselves to a VA outside of their area and that they werent called to.


As much as these sort of calls arent our usual bread and butter Its nice to be able to help with them. We rarely used to get called to them or when we did it would be hours after help was called for and often unhappy people because they eventually realised they couldnt do 30 calls at once.

[Darius]

Or are you one of the "fire service should do it all" believers?

no I'm a "don't waste volunteers (of any description) time and make the most efficient use of the volunteers there are" person.  Have you read Peter Wicks (Onka CFS GO and Onka SES UM) paper on combining the SES and CFS in many areas?  He makes very good arguments but unfortunately as I said before, vested interests and empire building has seen it swept under the carpet instead of considering what would be best for the community.

[Darius]

We can only pass on information if we receive it
If & when stops are received they are passed on to all attending agencies.

as with many things Adelaide Fire, it's highly dependent on the operator at the time (some are switched on, some less so, as you'd know).  I heard Victor MFS all that morning on 124 giving stops and sitreps and action taken codes etc back to Adelaide Fire but didn't hear or see any of that being passed on to the SES.  But again you've kind of latched onto one comment.  If all agencies were responded by a single CRD centre with a single common incident number and single talkgroup for the job (and they used it) then they would all know what was happening and be able to talk to each other.  Less work and more efficient all round I would have thought.

[bajdas]

....Only issue so far is that the GRN's that the SES have can only be changed channel one at a time (so it takes ages) rather than inputting the channel you want to go to like the CFS hand-helds....

All newer SES GRN's have CFS talkgroups under Zone 4. They can be chnaged from the keyboard if the operator knows how.

[bajdas]

Or are you one of the "fire service should do it all" believers?

....Have you read Peter Wicks (Onka CFS GO and Onka SES UM) paper on combining the SES and CFS in many areas?  He makes very good arguments but unfortunately as I said before, vested interests and empire building has seen it swept under the carpet instead of considering what would be best for the community.....

Already voted on by SES Volunteers months ago.

[bajdas]

....The SES are responded with different job numbers to CFS/MFS but to the same job,....

From my personal understanding, the different job numbers is because CRIIMSON is not suitable to SES as a database. So a different one is to be implemented in the future & thus the seperation of the data.

[bajdas]

Pre CRD and pre CAD you just called SES when you actually needed them, they were happy, no stop calls, and every job they got to work. Every SES member I have spoken to said they want to go back to those days before its to late and they lose more members.

Must be speaking to different SA SES volunteers than I am....personally I do not want to go back to the old 'pre CAD' method you described.

[Mike]

An interesting discussion.

As someone who wears both hats, the SES duty officer in my area will often ask AF if CFS has been responded. All the SES vehicles carry a list of CFS talkgroups and crews will often call to check if they need to continue. For the likes of trees, we are more than happy to take a stop... We can always be called again if something changes. Given we cover a much larger area for trees than road crash, it makes ensuring response much easier to maintain for rcr.

Nicer if it could be managed at a higher level, but still easy at a local level. You just need to ask/talk to people.

Cheers.