Author Topic: New MFS station for Salisbury  (Read 68232 times)

Offline Yossarian

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New MFS station for Salisbury
« on: February 04, 2013, 08:27:46 PM »
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/new-7-million-salisbury-fire-station-will-help-meet-demands-of-growing-population/story-e6frea6u-1226570010767

Sounds like it will be an impressive one, for $7 million you'd hope so.  Looking forward to seeing it progress.

misterteddy

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 09:03:59 PM »
$7mil....not that far off the entire CFS training budget. One day someone might review the Tahj's and decide that a shed with an attached simple building might be more prudent financially

Monger

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 12:04:19 PM »
$7mil....not that far off the entire CFS training budget. One day someone might review the Tahj's and decide that a shed with an attached simple building might be more prudent financially
Yeah and no other government employees can move in to new office blocks :roll:. The new stations are built for a 50year life span so $7 million isnt too excessive.

Offline Darius

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 08:40:40 AM »
Personally I don't begrudge the MFS new stations, they are funded properly and CFS isn't, it's that simple.  CFS and the CFSVA should be lobbying for equivalent funding to MFS for training and equipment.

Just for interest I did some sums based on figures for 2011-2012 from the promo unit website.

There are 5 groups in the CFS that did more than 500 calls each for the year. That's 33 brigades that did a total of 4483 calls for the year.

Assuming on average each of those groups receives around $230,000 annual funding allocation. That figure is based on what I know of my group and extrapolating a bit for the others.  It does not include any amount for brigade stations or trucks (many of which were paid by councils anyway before CFS took it over but nevertheless an amount has to be budgeted for replacement).  It includes some training costs but not all and most equipment but not all.

That means it costs $1.1m to run the busiest 5 groups (33 brigades) doing around 4500 calls per year in some of the highest risk and highly populated areas in the state.  That's quite a bargain the government and taxpayers of the state are getting.

Even if we include the "other costs", say 1 new truck per group per year ($400K), other equipment ($50K), other training ($50K), misc other stuff ($70K) that still only comes to $800K per group, which is $4m per year for those 5 groups (33 brigades) or just over $120,000 per brigade per year.

What's the MFS budget for 1 station per year, ignoring salaries?

Offline fire8029

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 09:20:38 AM »
MFS budget for a year, lets say $120M, roughly $84M of that is wages, left with $36M divided by 46 stations is $782,000 per year for each station.

misterteddy

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 11:22:43 AM »
Yeah and no other government employees can move in to new office blocks :roll:

oh no they can.....but they dont share 400plus sq m between 4 people with gym facilities

I'm not saying dont build new stations, not saying cut down the size.....but $7mil???....c'mon Ferret, you've been to Seaford, Paradise and Beulah Park, they are over-specced for what they need to be.

Fire8029, not sure your sums are that valid.....theres a whole bunch of other costs to remove from the budget before you simplistically divide by 46 stations. Costs like Angle Park, Training (sep from APTC), Marine, Logistics and Infrastructure, Comms, Engineering, HQ, utilities etc etc. However Darius is right, they are significantly better funded per capita than CFS. And yet, funding isnt a CFSVA priority apparantly

Monger

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:50:41 AM »
Yeah and no other government employees can move in to new office blocks :roll:

oh no they can.....but they dont share 400plus sq m between 4 people with gym facilities

I'm not saying dont build new stations, not saying cut down the size.....but $7mil???....c'mon Ferret, you've been to Seaford, Paradise and Beulah Park, they are over-specced for what they need to be.

Fire8029, not sure your sums are that valid.....theres a whole bunch of other costs to remove from the budget before you simplistically divide by 46 stations. Costs like Angle Park, Training (sep from APTC), Marine, Logistics and Infrastructure, Comms, Engineering, HQ, utilities etc etc. However Darius is right, they are significantly better funded per capita than CFS. And yet, funding isnt a CFSVA priority apparantly
The new stations are being built to house more than 4 people incase of expansion in the future years. The Salisbury one will house 2 trucks with the capability of 4 in the future. The gym facilities are there because firefighters need to be fit for their job and it is a requirement that they use the gyms. How many big fat overweight MFS firefighters do you see compared to other uniformed agencies? Not too many. With stations manned 24hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year there is going to be added costs. Training areas, decontamination areas, fully serviceable kitchens etc.
But i do agree the new stations are quite extravagant

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 01:04:55 PM »
Does anyone know why the lettering on the front of the station reads "Salisbury Command Fire Station"?

Offline Pipster

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 01:07:43 PM »
Other uniformed agencies don't generally have gyms on site, are not allocated any work time to dedicate to fitness, but fitness is a required part of the job!!

And they work 24/7 every day of the year too!!!

I certainly don't begrudge decent facilities for workers, but their seems to be quite a disparity between the various services......

Pip

There are three types of people in the world.  Those that watch things happen, those who make things happen, and those who wonder what happened.

Monger

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 01:44:25 PM »
Other uniformed agencies don't generally have gyms on site, are not allocated any work time to dedicate to fitness, but fitness is a required part of the job!!

And they work 24/7 every day of the year too!!!

I certainly don't begrudge decent facilities for workers, but their seems to be quite a disparity between the various services......

Pip


Dont have too much "station envy", in 30yrs time the station will be run down and bearly liveable like O'hallaran hill is now.

Offline fire8029

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 03:23:23 PM »
Quote
Quote
Fire8029, not sure your sums are that valid.....theres a whole bunch of other costs to remove from the budget before you simplistically divide by 46 stations. Costs like Angle Park, Training (sep from APTC), Marine, Logistics and Infrastructure, Comms, Engineering, HQ, utilities etc etc. However Darius is right, they are significantly better funded per capita than CFS. And yet, funding isnt a CFSVA priority apparantly
The new stations are being built to house more than 4 people incase of expansion in the future years. The Salisbury one will house 2 trucks with the capability of 4 in the future. The gym facilities are there because firefighters need to be fit for their job and it is a requirement that they use the gyms. How many big fat overweight MFS firefighters do you see compared to other uniformed agencies? Not too many. With stations manned 24hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year there is going to be added costs. Training areas, decontamination areas, fully serviceable kitchens etc.
But i do agree the new stations are quite extravagant

I know that, it's a very basic breakdown without taking all that into consideration, so even if you drop it down to say 200k per station, its not much per year, taking in things like trucks, maintanance etc.




« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 07:33:40 PM by CFS_Firey »

Offline Yossarian

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 05:01:18 AM »
I would be interested to know what you get for 7m.  Even with the fit out of kitchen gyms etc it sounds like a hell of a lot of money unless new trucks are included. Now i'm no builder but if you can build a common house for $200,000, land not included surely a large construction like this can be done for half the price. Is it good value for money or just a case of it's Government lets jack up the price.

Offline fire8029

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 06:45:05 AM »
Because it's probably got to have fancy doors and handles and lots of stupid stuff because its a government building.

Monger

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 07:03:14 AM »
I would be interested to know what you get for 7m.  Even with the fit out of kitchen gyms etc it sounds like a hell of a lot of money unless new trucks are included. Now i'm no builder but if you can build a common house for $200,000, land not included surely a large construction like this can be done for half the price. Is it good value for money or just a case of it's Government lets jack up the price.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 08:55:28 AM by Ferret »

Offline crossy

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 08:51:22 AM »
The usal for building anything for government is cost it then double it... The amount of over engineering and bull you have to put up with is beyond a joke!
cant prove it?? then i didnt do it......

misterteddy

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2013, 08:52:48 AM »
You cant build much of a house for 200k completely fitted out.You cannot compare it to a house unless you want to build a house with 16 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, home office for atleast 4 people, gym, training area, garaging for 4 trucks with extraction for diesel fumes, cleaning and maintenance area for BA etc, huge kitchen, probably has recycled water facility for training. Now go get fairmont homes to give you a quote on that.Plus add the government factor

16 Bedrooms.....oh please, you're actually paid to work, by all means doze on a couch if u have some down time, but you should be expected to be able to present yourself at work able to complete a 14 hour shift without the need for a bed, doona, pillow and teddy bear. All night in is a luxury, not a right!

4 bathrooms? Building code says 16 people require one toilet and one shower, with seperate facilities for males and females.

Gym and Training Area: Combined space, clear your crap up if the planets align and training is done inside and onsite

Cleaning and maintenance area for BA. Its open space, the cheapest part of a building.

Diesal fume extraction....fair call, google it and systems pop up for around $6k

Huge kitchen. heres a novel concept - take lunch or dinner. Plenty of workspaces cater for the meal needs for many more staff than the mythical 16 planned at Salisbury with a fridge, microwave and a sandwich maker.

Recycled water facility??.....really? when APTC is just down the road, book off for training for an hour and go dirty up someone elses place.

Ferret, I'm not having a go at you. But the attitude of entitlement is rampant in the mfs (and saas career ranks too). Its about time someone took some of these excesses to task for what they are....luxuries, in a time when other people who work harder in the community make do with rubbish facilities.

misterteddy

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2013, 08:57:37 AM »
oh and while I'm at it.....what plan written, or even dreamed, of says that Salisbury will have 4 appliances? This model doesnt feature anywhere else in the state, why is Salisbury different? Even if it were to happen in the 49th year of the supposed 50 year life of building, a prudent organisation would build a building that fitted 2 appliances and facilities for 8 crew, with space and allowances to mirror the engine room and office space if, and its a big IF the 4 appliance plan ever saw the light of day.

Monger

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2013, 09:14:35 AM »
You cant build much of a house for 200k completely fitted out.You cannot compare it to a house unless you want to build a house with 16 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms, home office for atleast 4 people, gym, training area, garaging for 4 trucks with extraction for diesel fumes, cleaning and maintenance area for BA etc, huge kitchen, probably has recycled water facility for training. Now go get fairmont homes to give you a quote on that.Plus add the government factor

16 Bedrooms.....oh please, you're actually paid to work, by all means doze on a couch if u have some down time, but you should be expected to be able to present yourself at work able to complete a 14 hour shift without the need for a bed, doona, pillow and teddy bear. All night in is a luxury, not a right!

4 bathrooms? Building code says 16 people require one toilet and one shower, with seperate facilities for males and females.

Gym and Training Area: Combined space, clear your crap up if the planets align and training is done inside and onsite

Cleaning and maintenance area for BA. Its open space, the cheapest part of a building.

Diesal fume extraction....fair call, google it and systems pop up for around $6k

Huge kitchen. heres a novel concept - take lunch or dinner. Plenty of workspaces cater for the meal needs for many more staff than the mythical 16 planned at Salisbury with a fridge, microwave and a sandwich maker.

Recycled water facility??.....really? when APTC is just down the road, book off for training for an hour and go dirty up someone elses place.

Ferret, I'm not having a go at you. But the attitude of entitlement is rampant in the mfs (and saas career ranks too). Its about time someone took some of these excesses to task for what they are....luxuries, in a time when other people who work harder in the community make do with rubbish facilities.
Mr Teddy i dont want to get into an arguement about working conditions in different jobs. i was just trying to explain why the cost might be so high. Fire services all over the world have these conditions and facilities.

flyonthewall

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2013, 07:59:57 PM »
Funny  :-D

Ohhhhhhhhhhh  :-o

Sad  :cry:

Cool  :mrgreen:

misterteddy

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2013, 08:16:46 PM »
Mr Teddy i dont want to get into an arguement about working conditions in different jobs. i was just trying to explain why the cost might be so high. Fire services all over the world have these conditions and facilities.

Ferret, believe it or not I'm not trying to start an argument with you either, just discuss the topic....but the time is coming when the practices of the past are going to be reviewed. Have you visited a UK fire station recently, I did in November. Many of them would kill for O'Halloran Hill, which most career firies here think is unsuitable for habitation, let alone manning. And facilities in many of the States stations are there because they do 24 hrs (and sometimes 48 hrs) on station - not 10 or 14 hours....by all means have a bed then....but they sleep in one big room, not seperate bedrooms.

My point, is that there has been an incredible creep in the standard of so-called requirements for a station....and pretty soon, someone will (or should) say enough

flyonthewall

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 09:18:06 PM »
Get over it people!



Offline FAO

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2013, 05:56:12 AM »
Well done MFS. (no-sarcasm)

muscleandpluck

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2013, 06:52:35 AM »
Mr T?
You appear to have major issues with the SAMFS?
A 4 Appliance, Command station may well be a part of the 40 year plan, considering the vast amount of urban sprawl in the Northern suburbs.
Quit bitching and use the energy for your organisation.

flyonthewall

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2013, 08:20:25 AM »
Having a bleet over a $7million MFS station that needs to be completely relocated and built from the ground up that is also in a rather busy metropolitan/urban fringe area, and is also being built with the future in mind so that there dosen't need to be any add-ons down the track is a joke in my eyes. The community gets a service that they can rely on to turn up in their time of need 100% of the time because they are ready to respond from their $7million fire station 24/7 365 days a year......

Also, I think it's pretty sad that some go knocking on fire station doors (both here and in other countries), to have a look inside and to have a chat with the firefighters .......  :?.
 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 08:32:00 AM by flyonthewall »

Offline Alan (Big Al)

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Re: New MFS station for Salisbury
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2013, 09:02:18 AM »

Also, I think it's pretty sad that some go knocking on fire station doors (both here and in other countries), to have a look inside and to have a chat with the firefighters .......  :?.
 

You have got to be kidding right??
That is possibly the most stupid and narrow minded comments of late?

Why not do it?

When i was in Germany last year i went and visited the local volunteer station for a look, had a great chat to one of their firies there, and it was good to learn the differences between the services for both of us..

So i am guessing if you were given the chance to go on the truck to a few jobs with another service elswhere in the world you would knock it back because it was "pretty sad"???

Obviously for someone as narrow minded as yourself you have no interest to learn anything outside of what u already know so i guess it wouldnt be for you.
Lt. Goolwa CFS