Another top DEWNR decision

[Alan (Big Al)]

So the fire Cox's Scrub at Ashbourne seems to be another top decision by DEWNR to burn the day before very strong winds had been forecast, this weather has been forecast all week yet they have decided to go ahead with the burn and it has gotten away from them.
Unusually it seems to be garnering very very little media attention.

Why are these burns continuing to take place before this weather comes, have lessons not been learnt from previous fires??
And what does it say for the service to continually have these over achievements that requires a lot of volunteer time from CFS?

Is it time for higher up's to take notice and change their procedures and practices for the hazard reduction burns.

How are any of us meant to educate the normal public out there who lets face it the large majority have not much more than air between their wingnuts about safely burning and choosing the right time to burn when they see large hazard reduction burns taking place out there with poor weather predicted...

What are peoples thoughts?

[Matt84]

Defiantly not the best day to burn with forecast weather today. Was there no crews monitoring this burn the day after??

Same with the Kyeema burn as well, brigade turned out to a grass fire in private property on edge of burn??
 
MFS: *CFSRES INC0007 03/05/13 06:38 RESPOND GRASS FIRE, ALARM LEVEL: 1, BLACKFELLOWS CREEK RD KUITPO COLONY,MAP:C/121A 54,TG 132, == FIRE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY FROM PRESCRIBED BURN CLOSE TO CUT RD INTERSECTION

Pretty sure Wednesday there was another at Stipiturus Cons park (Back of Mt Compass) that broke containment lines.

Not a good run in the southern area..

[Alan (Big Al)]

whether there was monitoring of the fire i believe is either here nor there, why are these burns being done with this weather predicted.

We got lucky down here one of the locals last year decided he wanted to burn 4Ha of dropped pine trees the day before last seasons first TFB day, we thankfully talked him out of it, however first thing on May 1st he was out there lughting the whole lot off at once, resulting in us being called to it twice, thankfully it never spread.
If you cant lead by example how can any of us expect joe public to use extreme caution when burning.

[Matt84]

Very true yes, I guess they have such a small window to burn that these risks are taken. Or is is miss management from high up?

Who gives the approvals for these burns to go ahead. Is CFS, MFS and other emergency services consulted?

[vsteve01]

I like how the pager messages differ.

Jo Blo burning off a mound of sticks and gets a spark into grass burning couple of acres is a Burn off out of control.

Department burns.  Fire has broken containment lines.  Burns 1000acres.

CFS should bill the departments concerned and help prop up their budget.

Some of the large out of control fires could be reduced if they spoke to the local cfs groups about getting some assistance and have a decent water supply, or even use the big trucks they already have   I'm sure many will enjoy and value the experience of a live "controlled" fire

[Pipster]

For every burn DEWNR do, the offer is made to any local (or other!) CFS brigade who wants to come along & play is most welcome.

Pip

[Alan (Big Al)]

But the issue is that these burns are that large that they cannot be fully extinguished within 72hrs and that poor weather is causing them to break containment lines, whether they have more trucks would make little difference.  My point is that all too often these burns are conducted with high winds and no rain forecast and they over achieve.  Things need to change before one if these fires causes property loss and or injury/fatalities.  I think its a matter of when not if this happens.

[senti@nt]

Damned if they do...
Damned if they don't.

[Brigade training south east]

Ok I'm so sick of the back stabbing
DEWNR are a CFS brigade! The burn took place Wednesday. Thursday the fire ground was quiet. Friday is when it jumped 2 DAYS AFTER THE BURN. There was people there both days and they saw the spot. Stipituras was a FARMERS BURN OFF WHICH GOT INTO THE PARK. I use to work for DEWNR there is at least 3 years work that go into 1 burn. What would all you haters be saying if they did not do the burns and it was a wild fire? Ohhh DEWNR are not doing enough burns! We are all vollys and if you don't want to attend the call out dont! Those poor seasonal fire crew who cop all the crap only have jobs for 9 months and get $21 bucks a hour and are not aloud to have a life because they don't have the luxury of looking at the pager and saying nah not going to that  need more respect from us! As said previous DAMMED IF THE DO DAMMED IF THEY DON'T! I honestly would like to see half the CFS guys I volly with undertake half the burns DEWNR do then what would be said when we (CFS) loose them.

[misterteddy]

Ok I'm so sick of the back stabbing
DEWNR are a CFS brigade! The burn took place Wednesday. Thursday the fire ground was quiet. Friday is when it jumped 2 DAYS AFTER THE BURN. There was people there both days and they saw the spot. Stipituras was a FARMERS BURN OFF WHICH GOT INTO THE PARK. I use to work for DEWNR there is at least 3 years work that go into 1 burn. What would all you haters be saying if they did not do the burns and it was a wild fire? Ohhh DEWNR are not doing enough burns! We are all vollys and if you don't want to attend the call out dont! Those poor seasonal fire crew who cop all the crap only have jobs for 9 months and get $21 bucks a hour and are not aloud to have a life because they don't have the luxury of looking at the pager and saying nah not going to that  need more respect from us! As said previous DAMMED IF THE DO DAMMED IF THEY DON'T! I honestly would like to see half the CFS guys I volly with undertake half the burns DEWNR do then what would be said when we (CFS) loose them.

Pt 1. Anyone who takes 3 years to plan one burn needs to find another career.
Pt 2. Regardless of who they belong to or what they are paid..... we are all responsible for what we do (or over-do)
Pt 3. Having looked at the destruction caused in the Belair National Park recently, maybe some re-training in cool-burning techniques is in order.
Pt 4. $21/hr (not including the overtime paid) is $21/hr more than those who respond to the callouts when things go bad. Don't harp on about how hard done by you are (or were)....it is still their choice to be there
Pt 5. DEWNR were only made a "notional"CFS entity to satisfy the legislation relating to authority and powers, not because it was a good idea. They dont correspond to any Brigade format and arent answerable (to my knowledge) to any Region - unlike the rest of us
Pt 6. If it's your burnoff (thats any of us - not just CFS or DEWNR), then it's your responsibility to ensure you have enough resources to manage it, and that its out or safely contained/not going to spread - the same way we insist that land owners do. Remember landowners that don't do this are also fined  - maybe we should start on the same path with some Incident Controllers.

[pumprescue]

I agree with the fining part, getting sick of getting called to these, one recently they asked for help, then contained it, then asked the incoming brigades to assist them mop up with knapsacks, sorry, fires out, see ya.

[Brigade training south east]

Well why don't you go do the prescribed burn course since your such a expert! Lets not forget some of these IC are CFS PAID STAFF. Who's to blame then? You obviously have no idea what goes into these things! Most of the times the burns are OVER resources! Yeah I'm wingding over how much they get paid from experience of the amount of crap they get from us!you are all key board worries you go do half the stuff they do! Hers another one for you the back burn that got put in at cox by us ( CFS) was bigger then the rest or the fire! So don't sit there and tell me it's all DEWNR s fault and I would like to see the " distruction" in belair! How long ago was it burnt? And do you have a environment degree? Did it reduce fuel? Will it grow back??

[Alan (Big Al)]

So your telling me that in 3 years of planning there is no fallback put in place to say, lets postpone the burn until anohter time as in 48 hours there will be 60kph plus northerly winds forecast to occur, perhaps a ....HA scrub burn shouldnt be undertaken as we cannot garuntee a fire that large is going to be blacked out before these winds occur.
Cmon, Seriously?

So what if they were patrolling, it obviously wasnt enough, and it was the last of many that have gotten away from them..

IF a large fire occurs would i blame DEWNR for its ferociousness.... of course not.

Once again i say, how can any of us educate the public regarding safely undertaking a HR burn when over achievments are as common as a packed lunch.

Me personally i do regard the work they do very highly, BUT, things need to change at a decision making level to reduce the amount of over achievments occuring on such a regular basis.

[Chinny]

Cool burns are not good for the bush, most burns are undertaken to try recreate a natural occurring Bushfire for ecological reason. People need to remember DEWNR are under instruction from ministers to burn 5% of the parks within SA, each burn season which is a short window of opportunity. Burns will always escape, not just DEWNR's. So before people make uneducated comments, check your facts are correct.

[Alan J]

only 5% allowed to be burnt each year...
maybe HR "over-achievements" are a reflection of what needs to be burnt
vs what the "crisp, clean country air" mob will tolerate on their Sunday drives...

My brigade has rarely received invites to participate in local burns.
More often we hear about it a day or so before commencement.
Sometimes not even that.
Almost never as an invitation
More often as a notice of what DEWNR are intending to do - live with it...

[CFS_Firey]

My brigade has rarely received invites to participate in local burns.
More often we hear about it a day or so before commencement.
Sometimes not even that.
Almost never as an invitation
More often as a notice of what DEWNR are intending to do - live with it...

Notifications and invitations are sent out to group officers via email at the start of each week (in my area anyway).  Brigades are invited to contact the burn ops officer if they want to be involved.