SAAS Responding Other Services..

[corecutters]

It has been said before, but why not say it again.  - Outside of the Metro area, all 3 agencies / resources are to be responded within the first instance.  If this does not occur for what ever means, lodge an RCR grievance form.. No use bitchin on here about it.  Take action, lodge the forms, and hope for a positive and successful outcome !



CC

[Alan (Big Al)]

And another one tonight, Berri SES,MFS and Barmera SES responded to MVA Barmera when it was realised that berri were mistakenly responded it took another 15 minutes for Barmera CFS to be responded.

I just don't get it i know greivance forms are the way to go but how about a joint meeting is held and then something is done about it then and there and not wait for the usual politics to play out?

[Pipster]

This really is out of control............

10:35:12 23-08-06 SB81 Cat2 Woorong St, Calca POLICE REQUIRED

10:35:41 23-08-06 NW5 Cat3 Woorong St, Calca POLICE REQUIRED

10:40:37 23-08-06 EL81 Cat2 Woorong St, Calca POLICE REQUIRED

And from initial call......32 minutes later

11:07:16 23-08-06 SHQ: *CFSRES: CALCA RESPOND MVA WOORONG STREET CALCA. 2 CAR MVA NO ENTRAPMENTS SAAS ON SCENE < 23/08/2006 11:07:05

And SES......37 minutes later

11:12:35 23-08-06 MFS: RESPOND RCR 23/08/06 11:12,CALCA CFS,CALCA, MAP 0 0 0 ,,2 VEHICLE ACCIDENT. CASUALTIES UNKNOWN,78129*CFSRES:

11:19:56 23-08-06 SHQ: CFSRES: STREAKY BAY RESPOND MVA, WOORONG-BOOLONG ROAD & DRINANVALE ROAD, NEAR CALCA, 2 CARS ***DEFAULT FOR CALCA*** > 23/08/2006 11:19:44 AM

There are perhaps two issues here.  One is the time taken for the relevent service to call the fire service.  The thing we don't know from the page, is what information the Ambulance and / or Police were given, in relation to this crash. It may well be that the occupants have called the police, and advised they had been in a minor crash, and there were no injuries.  As a matter of course, the Ambos are advised - even though the info given to Police says no injuries, everyone out of the vehicle etc.

The call for CFS might well have been to come and clean up the small oil spill after the tow truck had moved the vehicle.....we don't know, because that info was not on the pager message.

The other issue is the time taken to page each of the fire / rescue services.  As I read this one, it is less of Comms Centres paging the wrong people, or the wrong people being called, or services not calling other services, and more of a default for the first responded service, who either didn't respond quickly enough, or didn't tell their Comms they had responded, and the next closest resource was dispatched, and the same thing happened, so the next closest resource was dispatched and so on.

Reading through these posts, people are making assumptions on what has occurred at some of these scenes, without knowing the facts.

There are obviously times when particular services were not responded perhaps as they should have been.

But, I am sure people would get very sick of being responded to crashes, and always been stopped called, because the people have got back into their vehicles after exchange details, and driven off...

[corecutters]

^ I agree pip, avoiding speculation, and acting on fact, and acting on the correct and procedural(sp) way is the key to fixing anything..


Unfortunately by the response, that being 2 cars and a North West TL (NW5), I wouldn't want to speculate in assuming the Fire Service should have been responded...   

[mengcfs]

There are perhaps two issues here.  One is the time taken for the relevent service to call the fire service.  The thing we don't know from the page, is what information the Ambulance and / or Police were given, in relation to this crash. It may well be that the occupants have called the police, and advised they had been in a minor crash, and there were no injuries.  As a matter of course, the Ambos are advised - even though the info given to Police says no injuries, everyone out of the vehicle etc.

If Police/Ambos are advised shouldn't it be auto response of the appropriate agencies as per the RCR directory? or do we call who we want these days?

The call for CFS might well have been to come and clean up the small oil spill after the tow truck had moved the vehicle.....we don't know, because that info was not on the pager message.

C'mon....surely that info would be on the page. Our OCO's work pretty well to ensure the Brigades responding are well informed. And prehaps a priority two might have been in order if that was the case.

The other issue is the time taken to page each of the fire / rescue services.  As I read this one, it is less of Comms Centres paging the wrong people, or the wrong people being called, or services not calling other services, and more of a default for the first responded service, who either didn't respond quickly enough, or didn't tell their Comms they had responded, and the next closest resource was dispatched, and the same thing happened, so the next closest resource was dispatched and so on.

Agree

But, I am sure people would get very sick of being responded to crashes, and always been stopped called, because the people have got back into their vehicles after exchange details, and driven off...

Yes we don't like chasing calls. I suppose the more urban Brigades get sick of that as it probably happens all the time. From my neck of the woods when we get a job it generally is a 'going' job. So not being called, for everyones safety, peeves me off.

You're right it is all speculation but after reading and speaking to many people, apart from the colossal amount of incidents our Brigade has been directly involved with, and know the facts, that this is happening and it is not right. Grievence forms have been lodged. I don't see it as "bitchin" but more so information sharing. Isn't that what this forum is about?

[CFS_Firey]

Pip, I had a whinge about this in another thread and was told, regardless of what the caller says to police/fire/ambulance they still HAVE to respond Rescue, Fire, Police and Ambulance immediately to ANY job, so there is no excuse for not doing it.

[mengcfs]

Pip, I had a whinge about this in another thread and was told, regardless of what the caller says to police/fire/ambulance they still HAVE to respond Rescue, Fire, Police and Ambulance immediately to ANY job, so there is no excuse for not doing it.

That's exactly right otherwise agencies would be responding or not responding whoever they liked and the RCR directory might as well be thrown out the window. There are MOU's for a reason.

[Pipster]

Pip, I had a whinge about this in another thread and was told, regardless of what the caller says to police/fire/ambulance they still HAVE to respond Rescue, Fire, Police and Ambulance immediately to ANY job, so there is no excuse for not doing it.

That definitely isn't happening....have you seen it in writing?

[CFS_Firey]

I believe its in the RCR directory... See the discussion on Response SOP's... (note Rusty's post halfway down)

[medevac]

Pip, I had a whinge about this in another thread and was told, regardless of what the caller says to police/fire/ambulance they still HAVE to respond Rescue, Fire, Police and Ambulance immediately to ANY job, so there is no excuse for not doing it.

That definitely isn't happening....have you seen it in writing?

Would have thought with your background you would have been familiar with the RCR directory. It makes for an interesting read when you consider what happens in reality...
There is no excuse for failing to resopond the appropriate fire & rescue resources, and really there are a lot of emergency services dispatchers that should be getting bashed across the head and penalised in some for m or other...

The other issue is the time taken to page each of the fire / rescue services.  As I read this one, it is less of Comms Centres paging the wrong people, or the wrong people being called, or services not calling other services, and more of a default for the first responded service, who either didn't respond quickly enough, or didn't tell their Comms they had responded, and the next closest resource was dispatched, and the same thing happened, so the next closest resource was dispatched and so on

im not 100% sure what you are getting at with this comment.... im still half asleep, but from reading this response it seems to me that SOCC have responded the appropriate fire cover, and phone MFS for SES response.... they then defaulted the brigade after no acknowledgement..... no issue there. As i said though, not 100% on what ya mean...

[Pipster]

Pip, I had a whinge about this in another thread and was told, regardless of what the caller says to police/fire/ambulance they still HAVE to respond Rescue, Fire, Police and Ambulance immediately to ANY job, so there is no excuse for not doing it.

That definitely isn't happening....have you seen it in writing?

Would have thought with your background you would have been familiar with the RCR directory. It makes for an interesting read when you consider what happens in reality...
There is no excuse for failing to resopond the appropriate fire & rescue resources, and really there are a lot of emergency services dispatchers that should be getting bashed across the head and penalised in some for m or other...

I know of the RCR directory...but working where I do, I am at the pointy end, not the dispatch end, hence don't get to see it....haven't had  the opportunity to look at it for some time....I reckon last time I was able to see a copy, the only bits I saw set out which was the nearest fire service / nearest rescue service / unit / police station / ambulance service to specific locations....... nothing that I can remember reading about saying when the various services were to be called.   It may have been there, but I don't remember it.....although I suspect things have been updated a lot since then.....perhaps an MOU was signed( I figure it must exist, but I haven't seen it!  )

The other issue is the time taken to page each of the fire / rescue services.  As I read this one, it is less of Comms Centres paging the wrong people, or the wrong people being called, or services not calling other services, and more of a default for the first responded service, who either didn't respond quickly enough, or didn't tell their Comms they had responded, and the next closest resource was dispatched, and the same thing happened, so the next closest resource was dispatched and so on

im not 100% sure what you are getting at with this comment.... im still half asleep, but from reading this response it seems to me that SOCC have responded the appropriate fire cover, and phone MFS for SES response.... they then defaulted the brigade after no acknowledgement..... no issue there. As i said though, not 100% on what ya mean...




That is basically what I typed....   

[Pipster]

With all the discussion re this topic, and some thoughts etc that all services should be responded to all reported crashes, does anyone know how many reported road crashes there are in a year?

Anyone want to have a guess?

[medevac]

lots...


 

[CFS_Firey]

It would have to be in the 5 digit range.. Its very hard to find info on the internet though, unless you just want the death toll...

How many is it, Pipster?

[Camo]

Interesting one this afternoon...

Motorcycle crash this arvo somewhere near nairne?

took 25mins for cfs to be called.  then when they were responded they responded three brigades barker, nairne and brukunga i think.

saas then said there is no need for three trucks but cfs wouldnt stop call anyone until a cfs truck arrived on scene.

hmmm weird

[medevac]

thats the way things work though unfortunately mate....

SAAS call us late so were already behind the ball lol, then the set response for a VA that area is those three resources... all gets bigger than ben hur for a single motorbike.... 

its been bashed elsewhere though that we dont generally take stops from other agencies... obviously with the exception of vehicles having  left the scene....

[Pipster]

It would have to be in the 5 digit range.. Its very hard to find info on the internet though, unless you just want the death toll...

How many is it, Pipster?

I had a look at some of the Stats...in the metro area, there is in the vicinity of 25,000 crashes per year....haven't had a chance to get the Country ones, although I would expect them to be lower than 25,000.

Pip

[SA Firey]

This is what your looking for that job info long time to be trapped before fire service is called obviously SAAS error...again

Mt Barker,Nairne and Brukunga brigades

1908911 14:14:49 27-08-06 MFS: RESPOND RCR 27/08/06 14:13,MILITARY RD,HARROGATE, MAP 150 K 2 ,,MOTOR CYCLE ACCIDENT AT ACUSA MOTOR CYCLE TRACK,1279 1288 1298*CFSRES:


1915607 13:51:46 27-08-06 MB81 Cat3 Military Rd, Harrogate 150 K2 POLICE REQUIRED
1916089 13:49:33 27-08-06 W81 Cat2 Military Rd, Harrogate 150 K2 POLICE REQUIRED

[Alan (Big Al)]

How do you dig up the old messages??

[SA Firey]

Save them daily for a rainy day...well we havent had many of them either

[Darius]

here's another one with a delay of 13 mins:

12:16:12  08-09-06  W81 Cat2 Gorge Rd, Cudlee Creek 88 F16 TRAFFIC
12:29:57  08-09-06  SHQ: CFSRES: PARACOMBE, CUDLEE CREEK LOBETHAL RESPOND MVA GORGE RD, 3 KM WEST OF WILDLIFE PARK, BETWEEN PRAIRIE RD & TORRENS HILL RD, CUDLEE CREEK, NEAR POPLAR CORNER > 8/09/2006 12:29:47 PM
12:31:48  08-09-06  SHQ: CFSRES: LOBETHAL, ***STOP CALL*** FOR MVA GORGE RD, CUDLEE CREEK > 8/09/2006 12:31:38 PM

[Darius]

6 mins:

12:45:14  08-09-06  MB81 Cat2 Strathalbyn Rd, Echunga
12:51:10  08-09-06  MFS: RESPOND RCR 08/09/06 12:50,ALDGATE-STRATHALBY RD,ECHUNGA, MAP 183 A 4 ,,CAR V TREE 4 KMS TOWARD TO MYLOR

[bajdas]

6 mins:

12:45:14  08-09-06  MB81 Cat2 Strathalbyn Rd, Echunga
12:51:10  08-09-06  MFS: RESPOND RCR 08/09/06 12:50,ALDGATE-STRATHALBY RD,ECHUNGA, MAP 183 A 4 ,,CAR V TREE 4 KMS TOWARD TO MYLOR

For the person trapped 6 minutes is a looooong time. But to record, allocate resource, page and telephone the next ComCen, who then records, allocate resource and pages then 6 minutes is quick.

Bring on SACAD....

[SA Firey]

Where is the SES for this job
SHQ: CFSRES: GOOLWA RESPOND MVA CAR INTO SHOP, CORNER DAWSON & CADELL ST, GOOLWA, REAR OF SHOPPING CENTRE > 8/09/2006 3:29:34 PM

[rescue5271]

bring on the CAD system,it should be noted that the delay could be another call to triple zero for that job?