Wanted Urgently: More Bush Fire Fighters

[CyberCitizen]

The chances of a younger person getting burned are higher than of someone who has years of experience.We got to blend them slowly into the system.But of course humans all make mistakes.

I Was Advised By A Firey That He Was Supprised To See So Many Young Members On A Task Force To KI, Eg Members In The Service For Like 2 Months.

Shouldn't There Be A Time Limit With The Service Before You Can Attend Such Iccidents?

[mengcfs]

The chances of a younger person getting burned are higher than of someone who has years of experience.We got to blend them slowly into the system.But of course humans all make mistakes.

I Was Advised By A Firey That He Was Supprised To See So Many Young Members On A Task Force To KI, Eg Members In The Service For Like 2 Months.

Shouldn't There Be A Time Limit With The Service Before You Can Attend Such Iccidents?

Sure is, minimum 12 months and level 2.

[Robert-Robert34]

I agree Cyber Citizen there should be a certain time limit for new members to wait before they are allowed to go on a interstate strike or task force team deployment

In my 6 1/2 years as Senior Fire Fighter i have not once been allowed to go on a Interstate deployment due to either the brigade captain thinking I'm not ready for a big responsiblity... or the region taking the same people who have been before    

Then again when you look at our Interstate brothers such as New South Wales RFS and ACT RFS most of their young members are 16 or 17 and still they're allowed to go on deployments

Me thinks that the CFS should set a time limit for newly joined volunteers before they can go on interstate deployments and besides new volunteers who have had little experience are only a risk on deployments due to their lack or training and experience  

[CaptCom]

There needs to be a minimum experience level set for Strike teams...they are no place for newbies (no matter how old they are!) to get experience..

You are more often than not teamed with people you don't know and hope you can trust in their abilities..I wouldn't be happy to see someone who only had a few months experience on my team...they would be an added factor to consider..

You are nearly always in unfamiliar terrain, weather and sometimes, fire behaviour..not a place for the inexperienced!

[Mike]

now this is an interesting point. only experienced members getting to go to calls....

I guess the first comment is how do you get experience if your not allowed to goto a call to get it.... Now, there are to destinct areas.

local calls: people have told me that new crew members should only goto "mopping up" jobs first up. all well and good, but how many fores do you attend where a second truck is sent specifically for mopping up! and even if you were to do that there is no fire (effectively) for them to get experience with. Now, as long as they were with a relatively experienced crew, Id have no problems taking a "green" crew member out with me. Id 'assign' them to a 'more experienced' member, and make sure they got their hand dirty under supervision.

strike teams/task force: now this takes a little more thought.....
If we're talking about a 12Hr deployment and working conditions are known (wouldnt send them in blind), with a relatively experienced crew (full crew, not 1 of 4 people) again i wouldnt be hugely worried.
KI night shift, high humidity, cold nights again i wouldnt be hugely worried. Day shift for a known running fire or interstate then NO.

Last I spoke to RHQ, they recommended BFF1 and burnover training for the KI deployment.

Had the opertunity to work with a 'green' crew member (night shift) on KI and have have to say they held their own quite well. They told the crew of their experience before we started, and stuck nearby to someone at all times..... keen to get in and get hands dirty to . In all honesty, it would have been some of the best training they'll ever get.

but i keep comming back to hte same thought: how do you get experience if your not allowed to go and do it. vicious circle really.....

[strikeathird]

I agree with you mike, about the fact that a newbie won't gain the exp. without going to the jobs.  All comes down to knowing their abilities, trusting their abilities, and chosing the right jobs..  Often the best experience comes when the pager drops, they are one of the four to arrive, and end up at a going job.. !

[Mike]

We have 2 or 3 members in that situation at the moment..... its an ongoing discussion between the the other 'powers that be' and myself.....

[CyberCitizen]

From What I Have Heard The Members Were New Members & Couldn't Really Handle Themselfs Very Well, I Am Trying To Be Generic As Not To Mention Names Or Brigades.

I Am Referring To A 12hr KI Deployment & From What I Heard Most Of The Crew Were Not That Well Experienced. Both Day & Night Crew.

But I Guess As Long As They Have Met The Required BFF1, I Just Think There Should Be A Lenght In The Service.

No Issues With Them Going To Jobs, I Was Refering To Strike Teams/Task Force.

[kat]

but i keep comming back to hte same thought: how do you get experience if your not allowed to go and do it. vicious circle really.....

And how do you keep them interested, motivated and keeping coming back?

[Mike]

but i keep comming back to hte same thought: how do you get experience if your not allowed to go and do it. vicious circle really.....

And how do you keep them interested, motivated and keeping coming back?

exactly!!!

[Firefrog]

How do you keep them coming back = pay them. 

[CaptCom]

This situation Mike is to be judged just as you said...depends on the conditions..eg are they known or is it completely unknown...but depends more on the rest of the crew..if they are very experienced, not such an issue..

We take newbies on controlled burns firstly but never stop them from a real incident, provided I have experienced crew as well...I'm lucky my crew are very accommodating and are very happy to show and teach on the job...you will also find that most newbies on a real job will try to help without getting in the way..we all learnt on the job..

[Mike]

at least a few people agree with me..... 

now just have to work on the people that count!

[Laska]

I totally agree with you Mike. I've been in for a year and a bit now and I went down to the fires down on Kangaroo Island. I learnt SO much on that one weekend and it was a great learning experience for me. I'm really glad I went because of how much I learned.

[Sternzee]

In regards to retaining young members. i am 19 and have been in cfs since i was 12 as a cadet and now have 3 years fire ground experience. in my position the hardest thing about being a member is keeping jobs! i have lost 2 jobs in two years for responding to calls both being strike teams to major fires. last year on black tuesday and then this year for KI it is extremely difficult to find supportive employers in the local community!

[Mike]

It generally pays to ask your boss before you go..... they dont enjoy getting a call saying "i wont be in for XX days, out fighting a fire..."
it can often leave them in a spot of bother. Get a mobile number, as curtosy never goes astray....

Just remember, whilst its good to be keen, its shouldnt be at the expense of your livelyhood.

[strikeathird]

Yea I think loosing your job for the service is beyond the call of duty...

However, understand why you went.

[CyberCitizen]

I totally agree with you Mike. I've been in for a year and a bit now and I went down to the fires down on Kangaroo Island. I learnt SO much on that one weekend and it was a great learning experience for me. I'm really glad I went because of how much I learned.

But Like You Said You Have Been In The Service For Over A Year, So I Am Sure You Would Have Had Previous Experience, What I Was Referring To Was New Members Eg 2 Months That Were Going To KI On A Strike Team / Task Force.

[CyberCitizen]

It is extremely difficult to find supportive employers in the local community!

Everyone Pays The Emergency Services Levy And Expects Coverage, However What Alot Of Employers Don't Realise That With Out Us There Would Be Minimal Coverage Or They Would Be Paying Alot More Of Their Emergency Services Levy To Cover The Cost Of Paid Fire Fighters Over The State.  Most Are Fine With The Job That We Do Until It Starts To Cost Them Money.

One Of The First Things I Do Is Grab A Contact Number & Ask The Boss How They Would Feel In The Event That I Was Asked To Go Away & Could Be Away For Days. Most Are Normally Ok With It. Its A Judgement Call You Need To Make With Your Employer.

Sternzee Was Approval Obtained From Your Boss Prior To Going Or Did You Just Say I Wont Be In For The Next 3-4 Days Because I Am Fighting Fires?

[CaptCom]

The hardest thing to remember or try to get a perspective on is that the employer is still paying for you to be out fighting fires and you aren't generating any income for his business.

I've found that most are supportive of you volunteering..as long as it doesn't take TOO much time away from work...which is fair..some employers are better than others but you have to respect that it's their business that is losing...

Try to see it from their side..definitely ring and contact them but be mindful of the impact of you not being at work too..or coming to work stuffed after a call out..

I'm not an employer but I always ask during the interview if they have a supportive view of volunteering...volunteering doesn't pay if you don't have a job to go to..

[medevac]

In regards to retaining young members. i am 19 and have been in cfs since i was 12 as a cadet and now have 3 years fire ground experience. in my position the hardest thing about being a member is keeping jobs! i have lost 2 jobs in two years for responding to calls both being strike teams to major fires. last year on black tuesday and then this year for KI it is extremely difficult to find supportive employers in the local community!

personally i think it is more important to keep your boss happy than respond miles away to fight fires... (as important as that is too.)if it was my own backyard i might think differantly.

[Firefrog]

Yep - Work First and volunteering second

[CyberCitizen]

I Am Happy To Take A Day Off Non Paid To Help Out, I Don't Think It's Fair That Work Have To Continue To Pay You While Your Not There, However Not All Work Places Do This Either.

At This Stage Of My Life I Couldn't Afford To Take 3 Days Off, As The Morgage Doesn't Pay Itself.

Doesn't The Work Place Get Some Type Of Government Funding If Its Paying To Vols To Attend Major Iccidents?

[strikeathird]

I was under the impression there was legislation passed that prohibited Employers sacking someone on the sole basis they were acting as a volunteer at the time for emergency services ??

[medevac]

^^wouldnt have thought so...