Well this issue is now dead. The structural gloves the group was waiting on came in and now the structural uniform (with gloves and hood) is going out. (Even I believe without state supplying a risk assessment on the gear). But before you all soil your PBI pants here is a reply to some questions/comments. (damn browser wouldn't let me post last night)
Hmm, as an outsider, would the reluctance to allow PBI Gold into Sturt Group have anything to do with the business interests of one of their deputies?
That is such a stupid question. Not rolling out PBI has not lead to the purchase of any extra nomex and never will. Even if PBI was issued, Nomex will still be required for all members for everything other then internal structural so the issue and replacement is exactly the same.
Also I think you will find that business interest is a supplier of PBI gold as well. I could be wrong here (perhaps fire03rescue can clear this up) but I don't think nomex production is a going concern of the business interest as it has been spun off.
But any speculation that the Sturt group management is making a decision base on such a consideration is offencive. (not to mention stupid as there is no logic behind it)
Medevac:
firstly, nice to see a sturt group officer/brigade officer having there input (also i didn't think duplicate accounts were allowed?)...
wrong I just listen to the feedback that comes from group and read the minutes. You may like to try getting some info from sources other then SAFF some time. In reference to your question about duplicate accounts, people in the past have asked if I was you. So if I'm not you then this isn't a duplicate.
you know for a fact that it offers a higher level of protection for the firies at structure jobs (which is its sole purpose in CFS)
do I?
Higher level of protection against what?
A wall falling on you - no
Getting disorientated and running out of air - no
Getting heat stroke and flailing - no,indeed worse falling through a floor - no
falling off a ladder or roof - no
the only thing it may provide you better protection against is externally generated heat and last I looked on the appliance we had hose lines for that kind of thing.
Also you could run the line that why is CFSHQ issuing proban grass fire uniforms when you would know for a fact nomex offers a "higher level of protection" to use your words. (I actually think CFSHQ may have back flipped on this and may go for nomex for grass fire uniforms as it wears better and therefor has lower life costs)
All the group is doing is putting firies at more risk than necessary.
No the line is the same as it has ever been if you don't feel you have the equipment or training to do a task safely then don't do it. You can be injured and die in nomex you can be injured and die in PBI. There is a wide spectrum of risks many of them larger then externally generated heat.
There is a massive technical argument here over vent and enter vs compartment tactics. Ill leave that for now other then say that personally I believe that vent then enter is the safest option for firefighters. I know you compartment blokes will do your nar nar but just think what do you do in the compartment if someone his/her DSU. The big red button gets hit and the place is vented.
also i am interested... why would a mt lofty firie be wearing his PBI to a strike team?
Who said it was a male? In this case both genders were involved.
Anyway you ask them. (and this was a strike team they sent to Mt Gambier) but you see them at other grass fires wearing it as was photographed by the Advertiser a few months back. Not that Lofty fire fighters are the only ones.
not to worry though hicksflat - I'm actually in the process of a formal letter to region re the PBI
I hope you were going to asking them to provide the Sturt group with the simple documentation the group has been asking for, for the last 6 months or so.
the last appliance that sturt group custom built seems to have been a fizzer
Well I don't think the Sturt group had the same control on this project as it had on past builds. But my opinion parallels yours on this topic.
i do however believe the old Belair pumper and Eden pumper (shame to hear that thing is rusting away) and Coro 24P are probly amongst the finest builds in the CFS fleet....
Indeed they are but so are Blackwood rescue, Belair tanker and eden24 on which coro24P is based. They are all very fit appliances so even if you factor in one appliance that may or may not have lived up to expectations its still a good hit miss ratio. Good appliances are very complex platforms and it is very hard to get them right.
bittenyakka:
If Sturt group leads the way what is leading buy using Nomex at structure fires?
Well that was just a general comment that the Sturt group changes where the need is identified. Secondly you seem to make out that the uniform is the be all and end all of structural fire fighting. It simply is not; well not for people who actually fight structure fires and not just sit in the bottom of hot shipping containers.
At the end of the day things are as they ever have been. If you don't feel its safe to do something with the equipment and training you have then don't do it. Even with PBI gold you cant go into everything and cant save everyone. It doesn't make you invincible.
cloaks of invincibility are for D&D playing nerds with 8 sided dice.
Why has MFS gone to PBI and most FF I have spoken to much prefer PBI for structure work.
That is a fanboy comment. You say most which suggest not all, which shows the diversity in the topic. I think you will find that the Sturt group offices talk to far far more MFS firefighters then yourself. So they know the issues involved with this gear both for and against. Secondly pointing at another service and saying "they have it" isn't a full justification.
There are services that would prefer to wear something other then PBI for structural. And indeed there are better uniforms for specific purposes.
The issue is getting a uniform that matches the risks, tactics and budget of the service.
That aside I believe the Sturt group has said as soon as state/region answers some questions about its use and maintenance it would distribute the gear to fire fighters. If it is such a great uniform then there should be no problem for region/state providing the documentation that the Sturt group requested both the risk assessment (that needs to be filled out with every bit of new equipment or modification) or the operational procedure/ guide lines right? Well if its so easy and so necessary (as CFSHQ makes it out to be) their sure taking their time.
Ath:
Well you dont wear PBI at strike teams do you?? You shouldnt be. The CFS has made the decision to buy the PBI and they take the responsibility for it. As for the appliances, what did Belair get as a new truck?? A 34P. times do change.
Well I don't wear PBI gold on strike teams. But some others aren't as selective wearing it to everything and anything including grass fires and strike teams (you don't need to look to hard to see it happening). No one is questioning why group officers don't enforce CFSHQ policy on not wearing it to grass fires.
The fact is this whole PBI topic is a fan boy issue. "I want it as the people who get paid and I urn to be wear it"
I think some would question that it was a CFS decision to buy PBI gold. I think it was as much a CFS decision to buy PBI gold as it was to buy the GRN. These decisions get made by people who don't fight fires. Which is what some people in particular medevac overlook. the decision to not hand it out is made by people who fight fires. No one could dispute that those on the Sturt group management committee are highly respected and proficient firefighters and have only got there after decades of dedication. They were elected to there positions by the members of the group. Where as the person that made the decision to buy PBI gold has who knows what experience if any and was elected by no one.
Times do change but not necessarily or the better.
Gee maybe all our comments on SAFF had some clout?
Take your hand off your nozzle.
