Author Topic: NEW 34  (Read 107517 times)

rescue5271

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NEW 34
« on: September 03, 2005, 08:41:49 AM »
What did people think of the new 34 that was at the comps???looks good the only problem's that I could see was that the work area on the appliances has less room for crews to work from  in fast running grass fire's as there is no access around the tank as the hose reels side on the tray,also there was poor light for night work and once again no speaker near pump to hear the radio... Was nice to see kimba brigade drove there old 34 over to pick up there new one....

Offline 24P

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 11:45:09 AM »
If you were on the back why would you have to access the sidelines? there are 3 on the workdeck to use.
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rescue5271

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2005, 07:20:15 AM »
the workdeck is a lot smaller than what is around at present and I would like to see how this would handly in a fast running grass fire and we have always found that it works better with 4 on the back rather than 2 or 3 members...

strikeathird

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2005, 11:50:44 PM »
I personally think fires should be fought OFF of the truck.  Even fast moving grass fires can be very successfully extinguished when operating hoselines off of the appliance.  And if it is too dangerous to fight the fire on foot, you shouldn't be there in the first place.

corocfs

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 07:48:10 AM »
urban area v's rural area = differant mentality towards fighting grassies...

we always get off the truck, to make sure its out the first time and stays out... but we do have cramped acess to two onboard hoseline sin crew deck... not that you can shut the doors when your in there because of the set-up :roll:

Offline Firefrog

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2005, 09:15:01 AM »
There is a huge diversity of terrain in SA no one single tactic is best for all types of attack. Open grass lands and plains areas have very very fast moving running fires which cannot be controlled by fire fighters on foot. I have taken part in direct attacks on very fast moving grassies that could only be stopped by many appliances literally chasing the fire.

Working from the truck is a very useful and legitimate tactic. It is a skill that needs lots of practice and you must get the pump and branch setup right and have a great driver. But when you have a few good operators it is highly successful.

Offline oz fire

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2005, 11:09:56 AM »
Working from the truck is a very useful and legitimate tactic. It is a skill that needs lots of practice and you must get the pump and branch setup right and have a great driver.

My group sent strike team crews to KI several years ago - using appliances already there. For the majority of crews, it was their first experience at fighing a running grass fire from the back of a truck (as it exited the scrub at a huge rate). It inspired many to ask for training in this when we returned home (Adelaide Hills), which we provided.

It also gave many who went a new respect for how different the state is, now different the conditions are and how we take our own back yard for granted and judge others on our patch.

There would be very few, who went on the first couple of deployments to Vic - who had seen terrain and trees like those before - again another great learning experience and a fantastic opportunity to respect what others do - in our line of work. :-D

We are lucky through our training and briefings systems that we can adapt our training, skills and equipment to many, many diverse situations and that those who designed our equipment considered ALL of these situations when they built a truck - good work to the design team - nice multi purpose vehicle.
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Offline 24P

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2005, 05:25:38 PM »
Anyway after driving one they seem a bit 'floaty'. They tend to move around a bit on the road. Dont know if this is due to the height or weight distribution.
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rescue5271

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 07:53:18 PM »
You are right 24P it is because of the height that they float but you get used to it,they go well off road and the turbo helps but cuts out at 108kms but that is fast enough speed. As for the state being different that is also true I went to Vic with a crew that had never scene a crown fire and they where amazed by the speed and the ground fire that followed.

So what works well in one region or state does not work in your area....

Wagon 1

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2005, 11:13:29 AM »
Strikeathird, I think you need to get out and experience some firefighting before making comments like that. I have fought fires in many different area's, what works in the hills does not work out in the cropping country, I challenge you to put a fire out on foot in cropping country as well as a crew fighting from the back of the truck, its horses for courses. That is often why people argue that the cookie cutter trucks we use don't suit everyone, pity the people that need to know , don't listen.

Offline kat

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2005, 04:06:43 PM »
Ahh!!

Fighting a running grass fire from the back of a moving appliance is one of life's greatest joys :-) (and why do you think the lines are there?)

The often practised technique in these parts is to have an experienced driver follow the fireline (burnt side of course) at a suitable distance for crews to reach. Two branch operators on the fire side - first one to direct a power cone past the drivers open window and on to the fire line for initial knowdown (keeps the driver cool - windscreen and driver wet if not done properly and reduces flame intensity in front of truck). Second operator uses line sparingly at about 90 degrees from first line in a small fog to get the rest. Works well to have another appliance coming a few hundred metres behind to mop up the going fire line. The head can be knocked down if safe otherwise appliances can pinch out the flanks. When spreading sides are contained time to move into the burnt area to get all those bushes, tractor tyres, cow paddies etc. This is when we might actually have to get off the truck!!!!!!!!

Have safely fought fires in this manner for years and can't imagine catching them on foot! Many years ago we were doing 80km an hour to keep up with one so as you can imagine not only our firies but our lines couldn't keep up off the truck :-)

A lame training drill for this is to set up a series of traffic cones in a wavy sort of fireline pattern and have the crews practice the technique. A much more exciting training is the "Mad Rabbit" which is a bizzare sort of gas prop towed by a vehicle and requires a less than mad operator if you don't want dents in your appliance. We used them at Regional Field Days (R3) until they became "frowned upon". Maybe Blinky has used one? It was a favourite of Rex in Region Five who fought many OH&S obstacles to legitimise it as a training tool.
There's a difference between genius and stupidity -- genius has it's limits.

rescue5271

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2005, 08:23:31 AM »
Yes the mad rabbit have used long time ago wish they came back as they would give people a better understanding of what a fast running grass fire is. Fighting a run grass fire has its good and bad points but down here its better to fight from the appilanes then mopp up on foot. What works here does not work in hills country and we all have to accept that..

strikeathird

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2005, 03:35:56 PM »
Strikeathird, I think you need to get out and experience some firefighting before making comments like that. I have fought fires in many different area's, what works in the hills does not work out in the cropping country, I challenge you to put a fire out on foot in cropping country as well as a crew fighting from the back of the truck, its horses for courses. That is often why people argue that the cookie cutter trucks we use don't suit everyone, pity the people that need to know , don't listen.

Funnily enough wagon, I have fought many of the fires I refer too, with YOU! 

Any way...  I was making reference to in general, I have been exposed to a number of grass fires, when brigades rock up, and drive along and blast the heck out of it with the deck gun, or crew deck lines, waste water, and do sweet FA to the fire..   A different brigade, has 3 members working off the appliance and are 99% more effective....

If i generalised, I take it back, I meant to say that commonly, I think a majority of Fires should and can be fought off the truck, instead of taking the lazy option when it is available.

Granted, there would be terrains, and fires that being off the appliance is not only dangerous, but a waste of time.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 03:37:33 PM by strikeathird »

Offline TillerMan

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2005, 03:52:03 PM »
So yeah, back to the 34, it is a nice rig, its about time C.F.S started building some practical (non plastic) appliances. Would be nice to test one of the new turbo isuzu's compared to the first non turbo isuzu's.

Wagon 1

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2005, 04:39:26 AM »
I understand the 2 trucks are chalk and cheese, amazing what a turbo can do!!

I apologise Strikeathird, but you need to be careful about general statements.

Anyway, good to see the plastic fantastics are dying out finally!!

Offline CFS_fire32

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2005, 12:03:49 PM »
Does anyone know if the new 34's come with the very nice BA racks like those in the new 34P's?

Offline 24P

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2005, 10:13:39 PM »
Does anyone know if the new 34's come with the very nice BA racks like those in the new 34P's?
Nope just the fold down ones like the early 24P's
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Wagon 1

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2005, 12:06:55 AM »
Bugger!

strikeathird

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2005, 12:13:58 AM »
hmmmm..

Not good.

Offline TillerMan

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2005, 11:41:32 AM »
C.F.S probably allowed moores about 10 bucks to build this bracket so it figures. :wink:

Wagon 1

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2005, 12:34:36 PM »
Or the profit margin to meet CFS prices was so slim that to turn a profit thats all they could fit!!

Offline 24P

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2005, 02:58:29 PM »
must admit i reckon they need 1 more locker as space is a bit limited, but the moveable shelving is a good idea
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Offline backburn

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2005, 01:34:20 PM »
:?  I saw some being made at moors last week and saw some with two inlets and two outlets. the other with only one inlet and two outlets whats the difference or should that be why? I would also like to know what site could i go to to see more about them.

Wagon 1

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2005, 08:53:39 AM »
The two inlets and outlets are a bit of a mirage, as one goes to the pump, and the other goes directly to the tank. So it truly is a rural fire truck, not a chance it could be used to boost properly, as you would have to feed from the tank and the hydrant, so not very efficient. But I will say they look a damn site better than the earlier plastic fantastics!!

Anyone on here have a new 34, anyone used it in anger, and how are they holding up and perforimng for you? I think we have some Salisbury members on here, how is the new toy going?

Offline 24P

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Re: NEW 34
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2005, 09:00:55 PM »
We've used ours a few times, seems ok (for a rural appliance). 60 metre hoses come in handy, wanders a litle bit on the road though, might need a bit more weight on it
Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you.