Poll

Should CFS corporate let CFS volunteers use the Star on Brigade clothing?

Yes - without restriction
No
Yes - with restrictions

Author Topic: CFS Star  (Read 34298 times)

Offline ttgcapt

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2006, 10:09:06 AM »
I have been asked to enter this forum and let you guys know the facts about why this topic has risen its head again after some time. 

Basically, brigades over the years have been able to promote them selves within the community and often showed "their" colours by wearing similar clothing representing both the service and more importantly promoting "their" brigade. They did this by purchasing brigade T shirts.  Most brigades chose to wear blue t shirts with the star on the chest and their brigade name emroidered below the star.  The shirts looked smart and represented the brigades appropriately, they also carried the name south australia country fire service around the collar.

The logo was introduced in 1999 after a short competition as the service thought we needed a corporate logo.  At that time the then chief officer stated that the introduction of the corporate logo into brigades will be at the discretion of brigades and no brigade will be compelled to adopt the logo.  The logo was designed by Aldgate member Gary Macrae. (Volunteer 87 feb 1999)

The fire service star is a version of the legendary Maltese Cross which dates back to the crusades and is warn by emergency services across the world.  The Maltese Cross is a symbol of protection - a badge of honour.  Its story is hundreds of years old, and goes like this:-

"When a courageous band of Crusaders known as the Knights of St John fought the Saracens for possession of the holy land, they encoutered a new weapon unknown to European warriors.  It was a simple but horrible device.  It wwrought excruciating pain and agonising death upon brave fighters of the Cross.  The saracens' weapon was fire.  As the crusdaers advanced on the walls of the city they were struck by glass bombs containing naptha.  When they became saturated with the highly flammable liquid, the Saracens hurled a flamming tree in their midst. Hundreds of knights were burned alive.  Others risked their lives to save their brothers in arms from dying a painful, fiery death.   Thus these men became the first fire fighters, and the first of a long list of courageous firefighters.  Their heroic efforts were recognised by fellow Crusdaers who awarded each hero a badge of honour - a cross similar to the one fire fighters wear today.  Since the Knights of St John lived for close to four centuries on a little island in the Mediterranean Sea named Malta, the cross became known as the Maltese Cross.

The Maltese Cross is OUR symbol of protection.  It means that WE who wear this cross are willing to lay down OUR lives for it, just as the Crusaders sacrificed their lives for their fellow men so many years ago.

The Maltese Cross is a fire fighters badge of honour, signifying that they work with courage and honour close to death.  As Jesus carried the cross, so shall we carry the cross of protection.  This cross will be carried with honour and courage until the day we answer our last call.

The eight points of the star - tenets - are said to represent  gallantry, loyalty, dexterity, perseverance, observation, explicitness,  sympathy and tact."

Mr Fred Kerr - Former Director of the EFS / CFS and founding editor of the Volunteer states.

The Fire Services Star was adopted by the EFS in 1965/66. Later on,  the SA Fire Brigade (MFS) followed suit and the star became their emblem as well."

So - all my friends, their is a little more to this story than meets the un-educated eye.   The star represents us and what we do within our communities.  It can be emotional.  And I for one would be dissapointed if it did not.   It is what makes us who we are and identifies us as just that - an organisation - far greater that just the CFS in Adelaide we are part of a family of men and women all over the world who train dilligently, drive towards the fire when the rest of our communities are driving away.

I would suggest that the main reason that this topic has remained dorment for so long is that most people are still wearing the old bluey with the badge on the chest.   It is only now when they are looking to replace their T shirts that they are finding that they cant buy the same style, colour, star.

This topic will remain alive for as long as their is resitance to fire fighters not having access to what they are entitled to. 

Happy to discuss more if required.

Greg
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Offline ttgcapt

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2006, 01:03:31 PM »
Yes, I believe that we can get it back.   The reason we are fighting for access to the star is for you  and others like you who are relatively new to the organisation.   

The fire service star represents our heritage.  If we do not fight for it,  you and your fellow firefighters will blame us for letting it go. In years to come when the "logo" is worn by every man and his dog in society (it is unrestricted use, available from the CFS shop for any member of the community to purchase upon garments, caps, mugs etc)  You will post a message on a forum like this and ask,  why didn't any one fight for it. 

Well we are. Support us supporting you.   

At the recent volunteer forum I raised the question along with some of the others present and the facilitator called for a quick head count for those that preferred the star to the logo. about 140 members present.  99% raised their hand.

The matter is being looked at whilst we talk.   A response from the Chief Officer will be forthcoming.

I guess the main reason that it has gone on for so long is that when the logo was brought in, it was accompanied by promises that we would always have access to the star,  it would be up to each brigade etc etc.  Deep down we knew that there was method in their madness and it is only now that we are starting to see it.     

You are right we do still have limited access IE on uniforms etc.  Be warned if the star does not return to the volunteer this time round we will eventually loose total access to it.   It will be available to staff and corporate members only which in itself invokes a sense of us and them, division etc.   

Discuss this with your fellow members, involve the older members and be one of the members who will be remembered for fighting for the star - and winning.

Regards
Greg


One thing that has always bothered me about these forums is the fact that you never know who you are talking with,   they are always full of alias people.   I am not sure how healthy that is.  If you are going to say something that you can't put your hand up and say "I said that" may be you shouldn't say it. 

Greg

Toast

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2006, 01:25:13 PM »
For a young firie, like yourself, that has not had a whole lot of exposure to the star, its understandable that you see the taxi logo as new and relevent and the star as being historical. Im guesing you're from Littehampton, where all your appliances have the new logo on it. Down the freeway a bit further, we try to insulate ourselfs from silly decisions a bit more :P, even though we may be next to the brigade from which the new logo came. Any how, all of our applinces, bar the Pumper have the star on them. The station has the star on it, the letterheads have the star on them. I think the only things that have the new logo on them are the Sign out the front, the pumper, as well as anything that comes from region.

What I'm trying to say is that if the taxi logo is the only thing youve really known, then of course its going to mean more to you than a star you hardly see. For others, it can be the complete opposite.

Simple solution. Allow brigades to use both.

Manuel

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2006, 01:31:55 PM »
Yep i agree with you there, let people use what they want.  :-D

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2006, 02:12:00 PM »
Has anyone contacted region or headquarters to get a statement about this?

Also on a side note, in the wikipedia CFS article someone has disputed that the Start logo is based on the maltese cross, saying:
Quote
The badge depicted here is not one based on the US style 'maltese' cross fire badges. In fact you will find the badge represents an historical link to the South Australian Metropolitan Fire Brigade badge. This was heavily influenced by the cap stars of the British (and Australian) military. The star is a stylised version of the Star of the order of the Garter. An award of the British sovereign. I doubt very much that the founders of the CFS/EFS would have viewed the American fire department badges. It is more than likely they adopted the virtues espoused for the points of the cross in an effort to add a degree of virtue to the badge. Ozdaren 16:48, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The description of the star now reads:
The star in the CFS logo/ cap badge is a stylised version of the Star of the Order of the Garter. An award of the British sovereign. The star is used on cap badges of the British and Australian military and other organisations with a connection to the Crown (Government). The SAMFS uses a similar star on their badge.
Another more fanciful interpretation of the cap star is that the badge originated from the Maltese cross, the emblem of the knights of Malta, and was used by the Knights of Saint John in Jerusalem, during the crusades. It is said that the cross of Saint John came to represent fire fighting, after soldiers who risked there lives to save others from burning oil, were given the cross of Saint John as a badge of honour. This seems to have come from US Fire departments who have adopted a very stylised cross quite unlike the Maltese cross worn by the Knights of Saint John.

Offline CyberCitizen

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2006, 02:15:14 PM »
Great Post's There Greg.  Very Informative.

I Have To Say I Like Both Logos, However I Feel We Should Have Access To Both Depending On What We The Vollies Want.

I Like The Star For Its History, However Also Like The CFS Logo (Taxi) Cause Times Are Changing And It Shows That The CFS Is Open To Change.  Look At What The CFS Used To Attend, Now Look At The Type Of Iccidents We Get Called To.  My Vote Free Access To Both Logos.

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2006, 02:59:32 PM »
We don't have to change our logo to show that we are open to change... I'm sure the checkered reflective striping looks just as good with the old logo, and yet it makes the appliances look more modern...

It  would be interesting to do a survey of the public to find out how many of them actually noticed we changed in the first place ;)

Offline pete

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2006, 07:32:32 PM »
I hate the filtered thing and the more people complaining the better,but im still just as passionate for the Fire Service.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 08:18:33 PM by Firefrog »

Offline medevac

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2006, 01:26:09 PM »
of interest

Offline Pipster

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2006, 01:35:25 AM »
The logo was introduced in 1999 after a short competition as the service thought we needed a corporate logo.  At that time the then chief officer stated that the introduction of the corporate logo into brigades will be at the discretion of brigades and no brigade will be compelled to adopt the logo.  The logo was designed by Aldgate member Gary Macrae. (Volunteer 87 feb 1999)

Quote

I am coming into this discussion abit late...but you are correct Greg..although there is a little bit more to the story...

The CFS conducted some market research, to see if the public recognised the CFS star.  Many of them didn't, so it was decided to change the logo!

There was a competition held, and invited anyone to submit an idea for a new logo.  As I understand it, the "winning" entry was submitted by Gary Macrae.  But, that design was then taken to a design company, and they did up the current "taxi logo", based loosely on the "winning" design.

I recall at the time, it was said that the taxi logo was to be used on pretty much everything (much to the disgust of many members).  Over time, the CFS star is appearing on more things, and still, it would seem the bulk of the members still prefer the Star to the taxi logo.....

Be nice to phase out the taxi logo all together, and bring back the star!    :-)

Pip
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Offline firetruck

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2006, 09:48:54 AM »
i agree with what someone else said. Use the star with the red and yellow checkers.  Then we have a good mix of tradition and future
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Offline Mike

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2006, 10:25:01 AM »
i agree with what someone else said. Use the star with the red and yellow checkers.  Then we have a good mix of tradition and future

I was told all fire services should be using a red/white check, I think I might have seen it in an AFAC standard somewhere.... but I cant remember....

Personally think red/white looks better anyway.

The idea has some potential firetruck, but the question is, would it be worth having 2 logo's so similar? Do you think the taxi logo would look slightly more proffesional with white instead of yellow?

Think Ill post this in a new thread as well so this one doesnt get dragged to far off track....

http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=699.0
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 10:27:30 AM by Mike »

Offline LFB06

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2006, 08:57:20 PM »
i agree with what someone else said. Use the star with the red and yellow checkers.  Then we have a good mix of tradition and future

I think that would be quite ugly, but what i want to know is could we have a new competition on a new logo, which included the star logo as a option, and let the volunteers vote? I wonder what would happen then?

Offline oz fire

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2006, 12:17:42 PM »
If people are so pasionate - maybe it's time to get off your bum, put pen to paper and write to the Chief officer - Euan Ferguson and let him know your thoughts, either individually or collectively!

Good to see Greg promoting his view and having the guts to stand up for it and address his opinion with the CO - maybe others who feel so strongly about it should do the same!

After all - who's service is this (I don't need an answer here, i know) but I do think that if you feel strongly enough about it, then do something about it - don't just winge!
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2006, 12:32:18 PM »
I believe one of the issues that came up at the volunteers summit was that the vols prefer the old logo, and Euan was made well aware of this... it will be interesting to see what he says about the subject when he answers the recommendations....

Offline standpipe

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2006, 01:01:25 PM »

Quote



Be nice to phase out the taxi logo all together, and bring back the star!    :-)

Pip

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find 'em hot leave 'em wet !

Offline SA Firey

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2006, 04:06:15 PM »
Ever since I joined the service when it was still EFS the star was our emblem.

Long live the star!!

Images are copyright

Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2006, 12:08:21 AM »
Any new news on this argument? Has anyone actually been knocked back when requesting permission to use the star?

Offline Firefrog

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2006, 12:20:06 PM »
Yes Briagdes have been knocked back, can't share just yet but have heard some rumours..... :wink:

probie_boy

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2006, 09:11:07 PM »
Yes Briagdes have been knocked back, can't share just yet but have heard some rumours..... :wink:

what about now?

PF_

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2006, 10:40:11 PM »
Petition time!

rescue5271

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2006, 08:49:05 PM »
PF,get one going send it to all group bases and have people at the comps fill it in and on the day hand it to the main man..... as that would be the best place to hand it over too him...

PF_

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2006, 07:50:19 AM »
nah IM not really into that kind of thing and IM not going to the comp or field day this year, Bathurst 1000 is on that same day! :-o

probie_boy

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2006, 12:30:10 PM »
nah IM not really into that kind of thing and IM not going to the comp or field day this year, Bathurst 1000 is on that same day! :-o

comps on bathurst wekend? jeez it'll be quiet down at goolwa.I was gonna go but now.... haha no way!

Offline Firefrog

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Re: CFS Star
« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2006, 12:54:58 PM »
it is possible that CFS will reverse this decision...we have heard that no official policy is in writing and brigades are not breaching any rule if they use the star.

This is still to be confirmed so don't act on it but it does come from a reliable and suitably elevated position in the food chain.