Author Topic: Appliance Response Protocols (Read 10871 times)

Camo · « **on:** July 28, 2006, 07:53:16 PM »

Gday,

Have been told of a situation in another brigade where there is a 1st left tenent that lives approx. 9mins away. He instructs the appliance not to leave the station till he get there delaying the appliance by anywhere between 1-3 mins.
What is everyones opinion on this?

If the truck is full crewed with an officer (lower ranked then this officer) should it wait and kick a lowie fire fighter off the truck or should it roll?

What if the truck only has a minimum crew of 4 should it roll still or wait?

PF_ · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:06:28 PM »

I think it is stupid someone is holding the truck up cause the want to go on the call out. If the truck is crewed then they should go to the call out, not wait for someone to get their fire fix. Recently we had someone ring in and say they were coming but we got a crew and went, this person needs a reality check.

Scania_1 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:30:56 PM »

As long as the crew is competent you should respond. Maybe the captain needs to intervene.

Toast · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2006, 01:09:22 AM »

We roll with who we've got. If its a crew of inexperianced people, well, they're going to have to pull their socks up REAL quick. As far as people ringing in to let you know their coming, I think its less of a "WAIT FOR ME!" And more of an issue with crewing issues during the day. If we had 3 people and I knew the fourth was a few minutes away, I'd wait (Of course depending on the nature of the call)

rescue5271 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2006, 08:49:07 AM »

May be the LT needs to get a life and let the crew roll and do the job.......would love to see how that would stand up in court if the brown stuff hit the fan.....

PF_ · « **Reply #5 on:** July 29, 2006, 10:52:29 AM »

"yes your honour, I am aware three children died in the house fire on the Xth of August 200X. "I needed by flashing light fix for the week so I rang and told them to wait until after I had my dinner, and put the kids to bed then I would drive down the station and we then leave, I told them to wait for me our honour."

Bit of an exaggeration, unless what you have heard is an exaggeration and the Lt does what people do and says IM coming if youre short on crew?

backburn · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2006, 02:16:29 PM »

We let the truck roll with whom ever turns up if the LT or Captain are going to miss the truck they call up and get there uniform put on the truck and meet us out there. We allways have 1 or 2 members arrive in there own vehicle.

medevac · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2006, 09:17:06 PM »

what a load of crap

we roll with whatever crew we have provided there is sufficient experience/training within the crew. dont necessarily wait for a looie or anything unless we know they are really close...

rescue5271 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2006, 07:02:56 AM »

Thats it roll with what you have got as long as you can do the job,wait I dont think so how long are you going to wait and who is going to get there reat kicked if its a bad job and they found out you had to wait for a officer???

Camo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2006, 01:47:15 PM »

So what do the SOP's say about an appliance responding...

Does it have to have an officer on board? or does the most senior person become oic until someone higher arrives?

And does a person responding in their own vehicle class as one of the minimum crew required to respoond the appliance?

medevac · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2006, 08:57:10 AM »

Quote from: Camo on July 30, 2006, 01:47:15 PM

Does it have to have an officer on board? or does the most senior person become oic until someone higher arrives?

minimum crew is 4 personell.... doesnt state anything re; officers.

i guess OIC is up to the crews discretion.

we quite regularly go with the most experienced FF in charge

CaptCom · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2006, 11:15:40 AM »

If the lt1 lives that far away..he should carry his PPC with him and chase the truck...don't make it wait for him!

I work approx 20kms from my station..I rarely leave with the truck..I go straight to the incident and find a phone booth on the way to change

Our appliance will often leave the station with 1 or 2 but pick up along the way...whatever works for each occasion...

TillerMan · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2006, 11:24:33 AM »

Yeah just leave, all the SOP's say is someone must be the OIC. In other words someone needs to take responsibility of the job.

medevac · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2006, 11:26:33 AM »

im not a huge fan of the whole truck chasing thing... IMO very cowboyish....

what happens whenever you beat the appliance there... just stand around looking like a moron (dont take that personally, just a general statement). i understand why you do it, but personally i think the responding crew should respond on the truck, not just rock up in private vehicles....

backburn · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2006, 11:44:53 AM »

So in your opinion we should drive past the incident go to the station get on the truck if it has not left, if it has gone stay at the station till they get back or go home or what ever you where doing past the incident again. Out in my area its quicker to go to the scene and yes there is things you can do before the truck gets there.

medevac · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2006, 12:17:45 PM »

taking your word for it and zipping my lip

Robert-Robert34 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2006, 12:25:03 PM »

Thats true backburn also it is very common out my way as well as most of the volunteers would likely be either nearby where an emergency happens or just live up the road from the incident itself

However you cant just always respond straight to the incident in your own private vehicle as its clearly in breach of the SOP'S if the pager goes off you respond to the station and if theres a full crew you wait until a relief crew is needed

Trust me i have made the mistake of going out to an incident in my own car because of the truck not waiting for me to rock up at the station and got my rear end kicked by the captain for doing this

Mike · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2006, 12:32:15 PM »

If you have to drive past it... then fair enough to stop, you can establish the situation, maybe do first aid if equiped... maybe even clear some of the traffic congestion etc etc?

If you dont however, you should goto the station like everyone else. When a full crew is there (within a reasonable time frame), as long as someone is willing to take charge, then the truck should go.

People shouldnt then go driving out there unless they have a damn good reason.....

CaptCom · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2006, 12:33:41 PM »

Quote from: medevac on July 31, 2006, 11:26:33 AM

im not a huge fan of the whole truck chasing thing... IMO very cowboyish....

what happens whenever you beat the appliance there... just stand around looking like a moron (dont take that personally, just a general statement). i understand why you do it, but personally i think the responding crew should respond on the truck, not just rock up in private vehicles....

Except in our brigade..it's certainly NOT cowboyish...we only leave the station WHEN we know that we have other crew on the way to collect....and I don't stand around looking like a moron..because most times I am IC

I can understand if you leave without having organised crews..it all depends on what direction the incident is...it works for us but that doesn't mean I condone it for other brigades...

Toast · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2006, 01:18:37 PM »

Its certainly cowboyish in urban areas, makes us look lovely and unprofessional. Yet in more rural areas I'd suggest its the quickest way to get crew to a job. Just look at the coverage areas of some brigades...

CaptCom · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2006, 02:17:43 PM »

I agree Toast...in an urban brigade or area...go to the station..it's probably less than 5 mins to it..I live 10 mins from my station.

Our response area covers approx 20kms in each direction.

backburn · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2006, 05:24:28 PM »

Thats why my uniform is in my car or on the truck so I will never be without it.

PF_ · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2006, 06:29:13 PM »

Ive driven past 2 MVA's on the wa to the station. Both had people there, 1 MFS were just ahead of us (wasnt sure if I was allowed to pass them as it was double laned and they stopped in the middle fo the lane

) But both had people on scene so it wa sbetter I juet drove 1500m further on to the station.

SA Firey · « **Reply #23 on:** August 03, 2006, 05:04:56 PM »

This has been a long debate for years and was removed from SOP's quite a while ago stating a senior firefigter/officer must crew an appliance before it could leave.The very foundation it was eroding, volunteers ability to respond to an emergency in their community,due to brigade standing orders overiding,turnouts because there was no officer.Thankfully that has changed and the CFS policy is that a minimum of 4 persons are required for turnout in a minimum 2.2 appliance,and at least 2 BA operators when responding to an EMA job,the most senior person on the appliance is the OIC at the time,based on years service,failing that any firefighter willing to stand up to the plate and take charge of the appliance.

CaptCom · « **Reply #24 on:** August 04, 2006, 09:35:42 AM »

Finally, some common sense prevails...we always ensure that our appliance has full crew by the time they arrive...sometimes we have to travel 20kms+ to an incident and collect crew on the way...but I always make sure that there is an OIC on the appliance as well...this is in our case though..as a rural brigade..I don't condone this for an urban.

Author Topic: Appliance Response Protocols (Read 10871 times)

PF_

Toast

rescue5271

PF_

rescue5271

Toast

PF_