Author Topic: New Burnside Pumper  (Read 191230 times)

Offline filtered

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2007, 07:45:38 PM »
The other problem with the Type 2s is they are only a medium pumper.  Whilst that's fine in most instances, there are areas that would benefit from a heavy pumper.

I don't necessarily believe that CFS need to design a new truck - there are plenty of decent heavy pumpers out there.  Choosing a tried and proven truck that is more suited to some of the needs of local areas would be a much better way to go.

The type 2 is not the be all and end all in modern pumpers.  I really like the look of some of the heavy pumpers that QRFS are building at the moment.  I haven't seen one in operation, but the specs and design looks good.

Offline Pixie

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2007, 12:40:06 AM »
Unfortunatly, i think The (our) Dennis has scared cfs away from trying out other heavy pumpers...
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Offline 24P

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2007, 08:10:46 PM »
Unfortunatly, i think The (our) Dennis has scared cfs away from trying out other heavy pumpers...
But this wouldnt be a second hand truck, so there wouldnt be as many problems you wouldnt think. Would be dissapointed if they succeeded with their quest but only became a one off appliance.
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Offline SA Firey

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2007, 10:56:12 PM »
Yeah well we all know standardisation went out the window a long time ago.

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Offline 5271rescue

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2007, 07:01:34 AM »
So what areas do you think will need a heavy pumper and why??? If and when burnside get a pumper will they also not need a bigger station??
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Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2007, 12:35:31 PM »
So what areas do you think will need a heavy pumper and why??? If and when burnside get a pumper will they also not need a bigger station??
They already have a pumper, so the new one would just take the place of the old one in the same station...
Their current pumper is also a heavy pumper, so I can understand them not wanting to replace it with something inferior...

Offline Pipster

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2007, 02:23:47 PM »
Are you sure it is a Heavy Pumper...?   Can anyone tell me the gpm / (or lpm) of the pump on Pumper....?

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Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2007, 02:30:34 PM »
Eeek! No, I'm not sure its heavy and I don't know the GPM... Sorry   :oops:

Offline wilma

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2007, 03:24:13 PM »
if its the same as cleve pumper its only a medium
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Offline CFS_Firey

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2007, 03:26:40 PM »
My bad...

The point still stands about not needing to modify the station though...

Offline Pipster

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2007, 04:21:04 PM »
The only Heavy Pumper in the CFS fleet, as I understand it, is Seaford Pumper (the Dennis).   The Heavy Pumper is defined as a pump with  a pumping capacity of 3785 lpm (1000 gpm) and above.

Then there are several Medium Pumpers, (with the "Type 2" build being a Medium Pumper) which is defined as a pump with a pumping capacity of between 2838 lpm (750 gpm) and 3785 lpm (1000 gpm)

Light Pumpers, of which the bulk (all?) of the 24P & 34P's fall into, are defined as a pump with a pumping capacity of between 1892 lpm (500 gpm) to 2838 lpm (750 gpm)

I believe these pumping capacity figures are defnitions used under AFAC...

Pip
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Offline Pipster

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2007, 04:39:32 PM »
Just doing some checking of info...I have Burnside Pumper with a Darley JMP400 pump, and the info obtained from the Darley pump site, lists the JMP as around 500gpm..making that appliance only a Light Pumper  (remembering of course, we are talking about technology that is at least 25 years old - at the time it would have been the bees knees!     :-D  )

I am certainly no pump expert, and the info I have may not be correct (I don't know the accuracy of the info that was given to me ) but if it is, Burnside Pumper is only just a Light Pumper.

If anyone can provide further info re this, please do - as I said, the info I have been given may (or may not) be accurate.

Pip
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Offline Alan (Big Al)

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2007, 04:56:22 PM »
Talking to the fellas and lady from Burnside the other night they said that they are able to hook the pumper up to the bronto for jobs, would have thought you would need more water than 500gpm for that??
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Offline 5271rescue

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2007, 05:48:39 PM »
No a medium pumper will do the same thing....
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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2007, 06:15:40 PM »
There is a huge difference between Burnsides pump and the pumps on a CFS 24P/34P. I have been on the end of a Burnside HP line, the big difference is the pressure stage, and for their area, with long driveways and the need for long hoselays, this pump is brilliant, a 24P pump would not be able to match it for performance, and no one can say otherwise until they have used both appliances. A 24P only has a single stage volume pump, no good through HP lines.

The type 2 has a really good pump, 750 GPM 2 stage pump.  :-D

Offline Pixie

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2007, 10:59:08 PM »
Preasure is everything when you are working with sidelines, until you FEEL the difference of a 1 stage 2 stage or even 3 stage pump you will never know.
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Offline Pipster

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2007, 11:18:01 PM »
But the  pumping capacity of the pump, and the pressure out the end of a high pressure line are not necessarily correlate...eg the bigger the capacity of the pump, does not always equal a higher pressure at the end of your hp line....?   

As I understand it (and if anyone can shed some more info on this topic, feel free to) but the classification of the light / medium / Heavy Pumper goes generally on pump capacity, rather than the pressure out the end of the hose...  :|

And obviously, things will be different between a single stage & two stage pumps (the Darley JMP which I believe is fitted to the Burnside is a two stage pump), PTO's vs stand alone, and of course if we have a volume pump vs pressure pump, and undoubtedly many more factors....

Pip
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Offline TillerMan

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2007, 01:48:10 PM »
Mmm, i think Burnsides pumper has a 400gpm 2 stage pump which as you said would have been great for it's day.

You can hook any appliance up to a Bronto even a 14 if you are desperate, just depends on how high the boom is and how much water if any you want to come out the end.

If CFS were to get heavy pumpers or pumper/tankers i would think 1 in the following groups and they can decide which brigade can use it best... Mawson, Heysen, Mt lofty, Para and maybe east Torrens and Kyeema. Maybe also down the SE and the Riverland.

Offline Hicksflat14

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2007, 02:29:16 PM »
An appliance is what it is, and simply classifying it to an arbitrary light medium or heavy appliance is pointless. Its all about the total fit out not the numerical value of the pump. From memory Burnside pumper has either a JMP400 or JMP450 pump. After a search of google I couldn't find much on either of these pumps but as someone pointed out it was top stuff about 25 years ago. From memory Burnside Pumper was made by mills-tui, about the same time Belair had their pumper built at Carey Gully. They are (were) similar appliances so I don't know who ripped off who or if they somehow came to a very similar design independently...

As for boosting into the bronto it depends how they set it up. With the variable flow control branch on the platform they can adjust it to give the water pattern required with a particular flow rate. So with a low flow rate setting on an appliance like Burnside Pumper, it would be just enough, but for the full surround and drown option on the nozzle you require at least two pumps of slightly greater capacity than what they could deliver.
I would imagine that Burnside are talking about assisting boosting into the bronto, as I don't see the MFS leaving the bronto without a MFS tender as primary boost. I recall seeing a photo in the paper that showed Burnside or Belair boosing into the bronto at the Mitcham Shopping Centre fire.

As pumprescue points out a two stage PTO with two 90m hose lines is great for long driveways in hilly areas. You just don't get the same performance from a single stage or pump packs. What the CFS/CFA's obsession with pump packs is, I'll never know. They'd say because its a unit it can be unbolted and a new one put on, but thats still one big job with all the fittings to disconnect and reconnect. With a PTO your only stuffing around one big engine (that you would have been anyway) and maybe one very small one for pump and roll. Whereas with the pump pack your carrying and maintaining 2 engines. Seems to me to be a duplication with no extra increase in capability, unlike the PTO with auxiliary for pump and roll. As pip point out, and Ive previously ranted about, there are lots of pump variables and pump performance issues involved. Its just a matter of getting the pump that matches the the task. The little 8Hp pumps (or what ever they were) on the old 14's around 20 years ago use to make for some lively HP work. They were no good for anything else but for the type of volumes you run 2 HP lines at, but they cranked up some good presssure. I don't know about the modern 14s. Anyway for the type of work the CFS does massive pump volumes aren't required. You exhaust the water supply rate usually with the pumps we have. No point getting larger volume pumps when the problem is the water volume from the main or where ever you get it from. I assume the only time massive volume capability may come in handy is when your trying to pump out flooded areas like they were out north a year and a half ago.

As for burnsides game plan and how this fits into their future Im not sure. Under SACAD they may not run up the freeway as often, therefore reducing their call rates. Their main game will be thrashing their trucks running around on the hills face, strike teams and hazmats. In the last lot of COQ they didn't even leave their station. I suspect in the last couple of years that they have done more EMA with their tanker then with their pumper.

I'm led to believe there is a disparity between what they want, what they need and what they may get. But Burnside are smart operators and know what their on about so I wish them well and they don't need to justify their actions to anyone here.

Offline Blue

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2007, 09:08:52 PM »
...But Burnside are smart operators and know what their on about so I wish them well and they don't need to justify their actions to anyone here.

I don't think anyone was demanding justification. Just interested to know.

Offline 5271rescue

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2007, 12:00:14 PM »
I guess we will all just have to sit back and see what they get,I am sure that the brigade will get what it wants but at the end of the day it comes down to the cost... Mind you there are a couple of fire appliances on ebay...
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Offline JamesGar

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2007, 01:22:12 PM »
The old Belair Pumper with JMP450, same pump as Burnsides, boosted the Bronto at Mitcham and the Abbey at Blackwood Cold Stores with no pressure or flow issues whilst pumping for volume. The arguments about 2 HP lines for a pumper... I know Eden Hills are very happy with their set up and with flaked 38mm lines in the rear lockers haven't had any operational issue with the change.
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Offline 5271rescue

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2007, 12:33:07 PM »
Just came back from a trip to victoria and was talking to both paid and volunteers and they all agree the rear mount pump and one HP line is the way to go.Makes life at easy but also with flake hose you would be surprised at how fast they can get the hose out.
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Offline fireblade

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2007, 04:03:03 PM »
I've worked off mid-mount and rear mount pumps. If your familiar with your pump and a good operator it shouldn't make a huge difference but I've heard a lot of blokes like the rear mount for ease of working both sides of the street. As for the one HP line I think I would prefer two even with the lockers with trays of lay flat in them.

Offline SA Firey

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Re: Burnside Pumper
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2007, 09:02:23 PM »
Only concern I have with one HP line on our Type 2 is the fact that the pump operator does not have a resource available if there is a burnover situation,and th crews have the HP line 30 plus metres out. :-o

And before anyone says it "Burnover" remember the Canberra fires where normal ACTFB Pumpers were overcome in residential streets.Ash Wednesday also had the same potential.Food for thought even though none of us wish for another Ash Wednesday or Black Tuesday
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