Author Topic: Using 25mm Sidereels at Structure Fires (Read 29016 times)

Camo · « **on:** December 31, 2006, 02:16:59 PM »

Gday,

Those with rural appliances have you ever used the 25mm sidelines as an attack line inside a structure?

If so how did you go with it?

ltbawds · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2007, 07:57:55 AM »

We had a try with them at an old house that we were able to burn down(damn shame really as it was a nice old wooden place), But found that there just not enough flow through them to be able to use. The smaller diameter means there is too much lag after you open the bail. After this we decided to only use the 38mm attack lines. At least you don't have a long lag time when you hit the bail.

backburn · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2007, 07:46:24 PM »

Thats all we use at the first attack until we have the other hoses ready. We also use them when we go in they work fine no problems.

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #3 on:** January 01, 2007, 09:55:36 PM »

I don't think they would have enough flow rate to really acheive what a 38' could do in the same environment..

However, they would be better than nothing !

bittenyakka · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2007, 07:04:53 AM »

this is probably the case of if getting the 25mm there faster can stop the spread of the fire then it is worth it but in the CFS the chance of getting to the house fire fast enough for this to work unlikely.

backburn · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2007, 12:26:32 PM »

We have managed to save a couple of houses with them as when we have arrived we had headges and trees on fire from the spread put them out as the pump operator got the 38s ready. This has happened more than ones. We have also kept the fire to one room with the sidereels so at a structure fire they are the first hose to grab in our group.

medevac · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2007, 12:55:12 PM »

25mm's are all we use...

never had a problem. mind you this isnt on your old dacker dacker 24s.

TillerMan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2007, 02:30:41 PM »

It all depends on your branches and pump. E.g a TFT 25mm branch will put out as much water as a 38mm Protek/Akron branch on a pump that has high/low pressure stages.

I prefer 25mm but i would use a 38mm if we had 38mm wajax like the CFA so then there is less leaks and they wouldn't be so hard to lug around.

Ryan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2007, 12:17:01 AM »

Forestry use 38mm wajax hoses and couplings

oz fire · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2007, 07:29:12 AM »

Have used 25mm, 38 and 64 at structure fires - each has it's own application.

25mm when backed by a good pump (aka not one of the old 24 or 34 types) works well in a going structure, for direct attack only. easy to move through a house, and quick - no good however from a well involved area if you intend to minimise damage by gas cooling, however very effective for painting, penciling and direct attack to fire seat.

38mm is my weapon of choice for a going incident, great for knock down, great for gas cooling, penciling and painting and not to cumbersome to more through a domestic structure.

64mm - suround and drown people, this ones a car park - some services use this as their primary hose, as their main methoid is surround and drown. Good for large incidents, to commence the initial knock down to allow possible entry - near impossible though to use inside

SA Firey · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2007, 02:52:40 PM »

Yep a good example of surround and drown by MFS the other weekwith a HP line....we were second arrival,and they had already emptied their whole tank into the roofspace causing the whole ceiling to come down,when we went in with BA.Fire was in front bedroom...doh

I thought by doing compartment fire behaviour you should use less water

Firefrog · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2007, 03:47:35 PM »

I once saw a house fire with ankle deep black water running out of every available opening. Slight overkill I thought

JC · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2007, 12:23:38 PM »

Quote from: SA Firey on January 03, 2007, 02:52:40 PM

Yep a good example of surround and drown by MFS the other weekwith a HP line....we were second arrival,and they had already emptied their whole tank into the roofspace causing the whole ceiling to come down,when we went in with BA.Fire was in front bedroom...doh

I thought by doing compartment fire behaviour you should use less water

You are correct, but as of may/june there were more CFS f/fighters trained in CFB than MFS. Only the last two MFS drill squads have had CFB included in there 14 week course. They had to put every single MFS firefighter through it before this. The only exceptions are the MFS Training guys who did instructors courses.

Scania_1 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2007, 02:47:36 PM »

Well i havent done CFB but certainly know better than to flood a place for a small fire. Basic firefighting skills...

Camo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2007, 03:14:10 PM »

maybe your just smarter then the average bear?

JC · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2007, 10:33:03 PM »

Quote from: ath on January 26, 2007, 02:47:36 PM

Well i havent done CFB but certainly know better than to flood a place for a small fire. Basic firefighting skills...

It is, but some people can get a little excited when they seem flames. Ive been to many fires where the first arriving trucks have caused more water damage than the fire would have ever done.

6739264 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2007, 05:21:13 PM »

Good god, why on earth would you bother with 25mm (more like 19mm) First Aid lines at a structure fire? By the time you got them out and kicking along, you can have a good lay of 38 ready to go...

RescueHazmat · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2007, 05:44:44 PM »

Depends which service you were operating with at the time, and the capability of the 'actual' High Pressure Lines..

I know we have had some good saves using 'HP' lines as a first attack with 2 in BA.. However, pump capabilities are far greater than what most CFS trucks are.. -(with the exception of one or two)..

Firefrog · « **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2007, 10:11:37 PM »

I know crews who can get water on a fire by running one line, two lengths of 38 much faster than a crew dragging out 60 meters of HP line.

It's always a judgement call - You need to assess if the line has sufficient volume and pressure to overcome the heat release rate of the fire.

Better to have too much flow than not enough, but I understand the reasons why it is common to deploy HP off the bat while 38 is run.

whiteknight · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2009, 10:48:07 AM »

Quote from: Firefrog on August 12, 2007, 10:11:37 PM

I know crews who can get water on a fire by running one line, two lengths of 38 much faster than a crew dragging out 60 meters of HP line.

It's always a judgement call - You need to assess if the line has sufficient volume and pressure to overcome the heat release rate of the fire.

Better to have too much flow than not enough, but I understand the reasons why it is common to deploy HP off the bat while 38 is run.

Problem is the firefighters who 'deploy' the HP line, could be better used in ensuring the 38mm is run out even quicker, ie wasting resources running out the HP line, slows the running out of the 38mm.

Zippy · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2009, 10:50:59 AM »

yeah the resistance the hosereel's motor and turning mechicism is a drawback thats worth considering a reason for using 38mm...

rescue5271 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2009, 05:19:17 PM »

What type of structure fire are we talking about?

I know of a CFS Briagde who rocked up to a house fire used two 64mm hose to do attack one in front door and one in rear door..they spent sometime pushing a potbelly stove around the lounge room using the two64mm.....

BlackDog · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2009, 08:03:53 PM »

Quote from: Bill Corcoran on February 02, 2009, 05:19:17 PM

I know of a CFS Briagde who rocked up to a house fire used two 64mm hose to do attack one in front door and one in rear door..they spent sometime pushing a potbelly stove around the lounge room using the two64mm.....

All that practice chasing a soccer-ball around witches hats finally paid off....

6739264 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2009, 06:00:46 AM »

Quote from: Zippy on February 02, 2009, 10:50:59 AM

yeah the resistance the hosereel's motor and turning mechicism is a drawback thats worth considering a reason for using 38mm...

Um...? Tongue in cheek?

I hope so.

If its bigger than a car or bin alight, leave the Hosereel on the truck. (Yes, Hosereel. How many CFS trucks have High Pressure lines that can run at 2000-3000kpa?)

Zippy · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2009, 07:09:55 AM »

mate, i was saying...it takes much more effort to deploy a Hose Reel from a 34P than bowling a 38mm lol geeez!

if ya ever meet me numbers, im all for bowling whatever...and leaving those hosereels alone....particular for even using as "25mm outlets"...60 metres of Pressure loss....

Any lazy person gets a roll of the eyes from me...

Author Topic: Using 25mm Sidereels at Structure Fires (Read 29016 times)

rescue5271