SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Bagyassfirey on February 12, 2009, 01:28:29 PM
-
are the days of large interstate deployments ie convoy of trucks and personnel a thing of the past? witht he growing concern of South Australia's build up of fuel in fire prone areas is this the reason or is the need just not there anymore with more crews interstate and technology advances and so on? interesting to hear others thoughts?
-
I think trucks are only sent if needed. With the vic fires they have enough appliances and just need the crews.
Also back in 94 was the CFS membership that much higher that a number of members could leave brigades without affecting turnouts where nowdays there arent as many vollies in brigades??
-
Brigades in my area seem to have quite a lot of members. the problem is there availability. For interstate deployment, my particular brigade only had two hands up, out of 35+, sent the one...not even the slightest dent in our response capabilities.
-
yea i was thinkin that its availabilty..where as out of prob 50 members in my brigade prob 35 would be able to go.
-
I understand in my group we had 10 or so put their hand up when the call came out for 4 people. In years gone by we had many more do so.
Perhaps it is they cannot get off work or
sick and tired of the hurry up and wait associated with deployments or
they want to "protect their own patch" who knows.
the 4 sent from us would should not effect the responce from the group even though we have brigades with minimal crew levels and respond to jobs with what i think is short crewed (my view only). We would like we do now respond more brigades. (we have many brigades in the group including the Doo)
-
ahhh....its good to be back
not having appliances....major pain in the arse
Note to all concerned....take 10 appliances next time plus 4 command cars. Time lost in searching for appliances and finding enough gear to get them going wasted half a day on the first day and a couple of hours on the second day. We know our gear, our gear is far superior, and it makes us independant and and ADDITIONAL asset, not a drain on them. I'm sure by the end of day 1 they were thinking is it worth having them here, as all we were doing was keep asking/needing stuff.
10 Trucks is nothing out of the state pool, hell theres 10 trucks sitting at angle park that could be used. Couple of us were discussing a plan to put forward to the Chief about standing deployment teams and resources, so once the dust has settled and we are all back and sorted out, we might put pen to paper with a suggestion
Nice to see u kept the place tidy while we were gone :lol:
-
Welcome home - well done! & totally agree (found the same thing in Newcastle).
And having a standard deployment response would make managing the next one far easier.
-
couldn't agree more Misterteddy,
I have been on most interstate deployments in one role or another and the ones where had our own units (NSW in 94 and 02 for example) ran rings around the Victorian one in 2003. your issues were the same we had.
The only thing to add to the strike teams is some tankers due to the different fittings around the country and to make us virtually self sufficient.
-
mister teddy...hope you take some action on your points. :) feedback is always good. maybe it will help to organise strike teams in the future :)
-
ahhh....its good to be back
not having appliances....major pain in the filtered
"Ah yes, home sweet home". I think that the degree of pain might have been reduced if the pre-planning had included early information of which CFA Appliances we had to use, rather than waste time showing us around all different types not knowing which one was the one we would be using.
I think as an effective rapid response, I would suggest that the first deployment crews fly in and use the other states appliances, 2nd deployment drivers are organised and start driving over our own appliances ready for the 2nd deployment crews to be flown over to crew the trucks when they have arrived. That way we can get people on the ground fast but with backup on the way. But that is just my humble opinion. :wink:
-
Spoke to a mate in CFA tonight and he thinks that soon CFS will be sending over crews with appliances and command cars due to issues with local appliances being over worked and with issues with pumps and so on.. So I guess lets wait and see if it happens and what regions will get sent :roll:.More crews are due to leave over the weekend and on monday or tuesday...
-
sounds positive bill :) how high up is this mate??
-
Spoke to a mate in CFA tonight and he thinks that soon CFS will be sending over crews with appliances and command cars due to issues with local appliances being over worked and with issues with pumps and so on.. So I guess lets wait and see if it happens and what regions will get sent :roll:.More crews are due to leave over the weekend and on monday or tuesday...
That kinda goes against what im hearing!
-
He is a regional officer who works in CFA H/Q....Its still 50/50 but will know more over the next few days.....
-
fair enough we shall wait and see :wink:
-
You need to understand that there are so many factors that we aren't aware of with a deployment.....logistically, it is huge. the best thing you can do is put your hand up if they ask for someone, be patient (if you can't be, don't go!).
Look closely at what happens when we get interstate deployments.....they are rarely put on the hot end....don't know the territory etc.
and finally, WHEN are deployments NOT going to wear their yellows on the plane...please, if after a week you haven't worn them enough and they don't stink, you haven't done any work. It's time we had a deployment uniform, if only it's a shirt to wear.
-
The Burnside blokes had the closest thing to a deployment uniform.
The Green Field uniform, which could easily have your name and brigade added to it. Id like to know how to get a set of this gear...Rainer???
-
You need to understand that there are so many factors that we aren't aware of with a deployment.....logistically, it is huge. the best thing you can do is put your hand up if they ask for someone, be patient (if you can't be, don't go!).
Look closely at what happens when we get interstate deployments.....they are rarely put on the hot end....don't know the territory etc.
and finally, WHEN are deployments NOT going to wear their yellows on the plane...please, if after a week you haven't worn them enough and they don't stink, you haven't done any work. It's time we had a deployment uniform, if only it's a shirt to wear.
ahh yes...the media starlets. There was certainly a couple of blokes who were everywhere a camera was. I certainly agree, I think certainly there should have been a no yellows call made (and I suspect you might be correct regarding the amount of time spent blacking out and the attire on the aircraft on the way home). We were half expecting a call to be made that everyone was to wear them, to portray a "weary hero firefighter" theme media circus at the airport, but thankfully that didnt occur
To be honest, I reckon its time we thought about making the CFS uniform available to all (remember its not just a paid staff uniform). It adds to the professional appearance of the group and a far more positive public image, rather than a rag tag bunch bunch of Brigade T-shirts/polos which is what we had. The media zoomed in on the MFS guys cos they LOOKED like firefighters. Decision to go was made Sunday at 10.30, everyone (or at the very least the large majority) could have been outfitted in a couple of hours - or make it available for the trip home, they had 4 days to sort it out. Logisitcs for events like this are actually very easy. Having done a few like this - if u ask, you always get people falling over themselves to assist you. One for the post deployment debrief. Should we have the uniform anyway regardless of deployments? Should there be a subsidy for those who might want to buy it i.e. 50% reimbursed after completion of Suppress Wildfire and another 50% after 3 years service or something like that. Corporate uniform costs approx $90, not a huge expense really. All good discussion points for a coffee rountable later.
There were several Brigade versions of the green field uniform there, Burnside was just one of them.
-
Anyone can go and buy the uniform, but yeah, you will be out of pocket for it..
I agree, a uniform is the LEAST[/i] they could do.. - After all, they are already getting a free fire service.. (So to speak)..
-
where abouts can these be obtained.
-
Stewart and Heaton?
-
Sorry guys you can noand buy it,you need to go via the brigade,group and then region as too many people have just been rocking up to the suppliers and ordering with out following the chain of command. Would be nice to have one but I do feel and I am sure we all do that CFS should supply it to all members after a period of service why should we have to pay for it.....
-
1909127 09:21:11 14-02-09 CFS: SIG INC: FYI: SELF HOSTED TELECONFERENCE AT 1030 HRS RE MAJOR DEPLOYMENT TO VIC - DSC EDEN. > 14/02/2009 9:20:56 AM CFS STC Info
Anyone know if this to do with sending more crews or about sending appliances instead :?
-
what ever it is robert its obviously bigger than anything before...and bill did hint other day his CFA mate in HQ said they would be askin 4 appliances
-
If they need extra crew i'll be putting my hand up :-D
-
well the deployment leaving today was meant be 100 but got cut to 50 for some reason
-
I believe they woulda planned Saturday on Thursday or Friday. Gotta feeling they are talking about Tuesday.
-
People who worry about looking professional..... ain't.
-
Bill, maybe someone just doesn't want you to have it?.. Any member can have the uniform for brigade/official events.. I know a few members in my brigade who have.
-
well the deployment leaving today was meant be 100 but got cut to 50 for some reason
....like only 50 SACFS people were needed!
-
People who worry about looking professional..... ain't.
sorry, but i quite disagree with your statement on numerous levels!
what is the problem with trying to look professional when you are part of a service which is quite often portrayed as "just volunteers", where quite often members show up at incidents in private vehicles wearing a mishmash of blue, bottle green, yellow, faded/dirty yellows, and PBI gold.and i am not even going to mention the various logo's! And to attempt to portray an image that in the SACFS we ARE volunteers PROFESSIONALLY protecting the community.
I take pride in the training i have done and in the fact that i am an active firefighter within the SACFS and am quite proud to wear their logo/star when i am representing them. and think it is a wonderful idea for members to be able to appear much more unified and professional. (and look like "real" firefighters in the public eye)
With views like yours, it is quite easy to see why we have brigades responding with 20yr old appliances, and inadequate equipment.
Bring on a common uniform for SACFS firefighters i say! Although make it navy blue, leave the bottle green for the paid staff...
-
i agree with you Pixie,
It is time we put on a professional front when we represent the CFS.
There was a pager message a few days ago about a brigade attending a meeting and the members were asked to wear their tshirts etc., thats what we need to do, put on a united front to the public.
If we are serious in having the public see us as professionals the least we need is a t/polo shirt that we can wear to meetings/ deployments etc.
Most brigade/ group budgets should be able to accommodate a plan to outfit ALL volunteers with these over a 2 or 3 year time frame. The style and colour well thats a whole different subject.
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
-
Remembering the verocity of the actual saturday nights fire's in victoria...it would be very worthwhile to send as many appliances that have the latest safety features to victoria. Eg Halo systems.
Meanwhile here is the CFA Chief Officer's message to the rest of the CFA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH6rFt5KDQY
-
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :cry: but
CFS: SIG INC: FYI: CONFIRMATION FROM VIC - NO FURTHER REQUEST FOR DEPLOYMENT TODAY. TELECONFERENCE NOT REQUIRED - DSC EDEN > 14/02/2009 16:21:48 PM
It looks like we can only discuss what could of been or may of been and provide our own analysis of Victorian fire including the CFS involvement
-
I know you are speaking from a CFS point of view, missed out on helping your fellow fire fighters.
But this is very good news - its about time the Victorians took back their own state. It will help repair their very damaged Karma among the emergency services (those who have been involved in major traumatic events will know what I'm talking about!).
Now is far to early & the memories far to fresh to have a proper debate about what should of, what shouldn't have happened. And the why's & why nots of the whole response.
Just remember this - the last major fire disaster of this scale, the Victorians lost fire fighters as well as civilians. This time it didn't happen. So well done to the CFA,MMFB,VicSES & the other services involved, a very couragous effort against impossible odds!
By the way NSW crews are returning from Beechworth I think today & the Tasmanians tomorrow, and members of my dads family made it through :-) As I said previously hopefully lessons will be learnt & we never have to witness such a horrific event again.
cheers
-
Good to hear that you dad's family made it through I am still awaiting to hear from school friends that I new when I went to College in Vic.
I was in Victoria at the time of those fires it proved to be good learning experience for me at young age
-
Hopefully you will get some good news soon mate
-
sorry, but i quite disagree with your statement on numerous levels!
Pixie.
Professionalism is being concerned primarily about results.
Amateurs can afford to come back next weekend, and argue that it's all about how you feel and how you "play the game".
Pros know that if you don't get it right, you don't pout food on the table. Or, in our case, people die and property is destroyed.
We have limited resources and limted budgets.
This means that every $$ put into a less-productive area is a $$ taken from a more profitable area..... and our "profit" is life and property.
If you're professional in your attitude, you'll judge all expenditure by that criteria. What does it contribute to "life and property".
That's the bottom line....
Dog.
-
I take pride in the training i have done and in the fact that i am an active firefighter within the SACFS and am quite proud to wear their logo/star when i am representing them. and think it is a wonderful idea for members to be able to appear much more unified and professional. (and look like "real" firefighters in t :wink:he public eye)
With views like yours, it is quite easy to see why we have brigades responding with 20yr old appliances, and inadequate equipment.
Bring on a common uniform for SACFS firefighters i say! Although make it navy blue, leave the bottle green for the paid staff...
G'day Pixie !!
As a proudly well-trained fire-fighter, I guess you weren't one of the crews "mopping
up" from the rear deck the other day then. Or blacking out under a burning tree sans
helmet. (shakes head sadly) :lol:
Have to agree with the Dog on this one. There's a world of difference between being
professional & looking uniform. Also that if $$ are taken from our limited (and
reducing) budget for PR photo opportunity clothing, that money is NOT available
to replace 20 year-old appliances & inadequate equipment.
Having written that, I note that most of the near-Adelaide equipment is far better than
many of our interstate bretheren and sisteren can afford. Even on our 2 nearly 20 year
old appliances. Possibly due to their budget expenditure on uniforms? I think I'd
still rather have new appliances than go head-to-head in a dress-up contest with RFS or
CFA. If that makes me some sort of Philistine, I cheerfully plead guilty. (I'm ctually
a Queenslander, but I understand that some people can't tell the difference. :-D )
Funny thing - there was an article about this in Careers in the paper today. er.. yesterday. SA & NT are the 2 states where dress is considered to have least bearing on
performance. I agree. I'm pretty sure a common uniform wouldn't make me think any
clearer inside my CFS hat, nor make fires any more "out". (Caffeine would help, but I
understand it is not a recommended drug for fluids management.)
Despite our rag-tag appearance, the public usually seem pleased enough to see us
whatever we are wearing. The dope-growing crowd are a notable exception, but I suspect
their displeasure would be unchanged even if we were attired in spiffy matching garb.
The other thing on which I must take issue with you is the colour. While blue is
definitely my colour, the pre-occupation with dark shades in our climate leaves me
baffled. They absorb much too much heat from the sun & air. I strongly commend a sky-
blue shirt (at darkest), or even a light khaki. King Gee do a very cool & comfortable
work shirt that is even presentable at the office.
warm regards :wink:
-
most brigade specific clothing is out of the firefighters expense is it not. Im pretty sure a HEAP of people would be prepared to invest in a clothing kit (not PPE kit) using there own earned cash. Its partially related to Pride in the Service.
Theres ways that Experienced (10+ years members) have pride in the CFS....This is merely 1-9 Year members attempting to put in a bit of there own kind of pride :)
Proud to be part of the Fire service? Look the part In and Out of the Yellow/Golds, and the public who view you might observe the pride :) and talk to you about it..and you might have a recruitment opputunity! :D
Theres certain things im prepared to buy for myself/safety for my involvement in the CFS...eg Boots, Torchs, Kit bags, etc. (needed an upgrade of boots particularly since my cfs given ones had very bad ankle/shin protection.)
-
Esprit de Corps is a legit consideration.......
But it's best based on performance, not appearance.
... and given THIS article.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25056637-5006301,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25056637-5006301,00.html)
MORE than 300 people would die in the first hour of a major bushfire in the Adelaide Hills, secret modelling by the CFS and State Government has forecast.
I don't think you'll be claiming that the fire-management budget is overflowing with excess cash.
Priorities, people, what are your priorities.....?
Dog.
-
In the situation of the "Major bushfire scenario" in adelaide hills. You'd hope we're professionally training to be always ready to use whats taught in Suppress Wildfire...
I think it would be nice for all Firefighters to get BF1 done within 6 months of joining, and "BF2" aka Suppress Wildfire completed within 24 months.
I quote Mr Kiessling, We're gonna have to use Structural Triage...and those who havent done Suppress Wildfire probably wont even know what that is. Unless of course those who have tried to learn the concepts without doing the weekend of training :wink:.
Esprit de Corps is good to have :) We're a statewide organisation, just like MFS...it would just be nice if we could all have the same look as firefighters out of our Yellows.
-
pager requests are out....it's on again Tues-Saturday :lol:
-
na its ok the yanks have turned up now.....they will save the day :-D
-
Just out of interest, saw soom vision of the NSW deployment coming into Sydney airport - guess what they were dress in yellows (well the RFS people anyway others were in which ever their service wears) they looked professional to me! Even the ones wear jeans instead of yellow pants.
Just thought you would be interested :wink:
-
gr8 PR for the RFS thats bout it...bythe way where did they get the clean PPC?????
-
No one on my deployment wore yellows on the plane on the way there or back.
I must admit that the CFA do present themselves very well in their blues, it does give a very professional appearance. Not sure that we should be taking our precious funding away from more important things for it though.
If people want to purchase their own greens there is nothing stopping you, I grabbed a few things from Stewart and Heaton recently with no questions asked.
-
welcome back Matt.....trust u found the time enjoyable :lol:
-
Welcome back Matt, talking to some of our crews that came back over the weekend and they where saying that those that go to victoria are well looked after with food,food and a nice motel room to sleep in part of their job was to listen to what the locals where saying or just to sit and talk to them..GREAT PR....There have been a few small issues and that is why they are/ may still be looking at sending over strike teams from region's but as we all know that changes each day.... Region 5 is sending out crew of 8 on Tuesday,Our guys where saying that each CFS crew had a MFS firefighter on it and they worked well the only thing they felt sorry for the MFS guys was that they had PBI bunker pants on time they got level one PPE. Where our crews are working is very step and its hard to work in this area with the PBI on....
I agree CFA do present them self's well with there blue uniform and its very cheap to buy, If people are able to but the green one direct good on them but CFS H/Q did make it clear that suppliers should not be selling direct to brigade members unless it was on the correct paperwork from the group or regional office....I think you can work out why I am saying that and no its not to stop me or any other member buying the uniform.....
-
Esprit de Corps is good to have :) We're a statewide organisation, just like MFS...it would just be nice if we could all have the same look as firefighters out of our Yellows.
It'd be nice if we had no fires...
Comfort yourself with the thought that when the public thinks of firefighters, they don't think of people dressed in blue, green, khaki, or anything but our working gear.
No need to keep up with the Jones'
Back on topic.
The people that I know who went seem to be saying pretty consistently that they were well looked after. Also had dealer's mechs there to check over trucks and a fair stock of the minor spare parts such as light lenses, so that trucks went out each day (and home) in the same condition in which they arrived.
-
Black Dog - now i can see where your point of view is coming from, i can slightly agree with you that yes, operational equipment IS much more important than a fancy dress contest... but i think you are yet to fully understand my point of view.
I am not sure what type of brigade you are from, thus am unsure as to your experiences... but i personally like to be able to turn up at an incident and get to work immediately, not have to explain to residents that WE ARE THE REAL FIRE SERVICE, and that we are actually capable of doing our job. I have had multiple occasions where people have genuinely asked where the "Real" firefighters (MFS) were... and this does not just extend to the public!
I know the CFS has a very limited budget, but i would still quit like to see more PR push that the CFS ARE A REAL FIRE SERVICE... and i think a good start to this is having a common uniform, both operational and dress... even if that is just a work shirt screen printed with cfs logo/star( :evil:) and Fire & Rescue on the back.
As a proudly well-trained fire-fighter, I guess you weren't one of the crews "mopping
up" from the rear deck the other day then. Or blacking out under a burning tree sans
helmet....
....The other thing on which I must take issue with you is the colour. While blue is
definitely my colour, the pre-occupation with dark shades in our climate leaves me
baffled. They absorb much too much heat from the sun & air. I strongly commend a sky-
blue shirt (at darkest), or even a light khaki. King Gee do a very cool & comfortable
work shirt that is even presentable at the office.
I try not too... although :'( sometime I just feel the need to belong... :evil:
The king gee shirts (the ventilated ones) you speak of are AWESOME, our brigade has done a run of member purchased ones and they are great. even in the dark blue, they are cool enough to wear on a stinking hot day.
enough off topic banter for me.
-
Well done to all the people on my recent deployment to Vic. I had a great time working with some very professional firefighters from CFS and MFS. The job got done regardless of uniform uniformity!
-
it is my understanding that the CFS has in place plans for ongoing support for Victoria over the next few weeks, if this eventuates then there should be a chance for more people to go and gain experience (even Robert)
(i hope like we all do not in uncontrolled incidents though)
-
You are remembered for what you do, not what you wore when you turned up!
Those I met and spoke to while on the first deployment could not of cared less what we were wearing, just grateful and thankful we were there!
-
it is my understanding that the CFS has in place plans for ongoing support for Victoria over the next few weeks, if this eventuates then there should be a chance for more people to go and gain experience (even Robert)
(i hope like we all do not in uncontrolled incidents though)
I sure hope i get my chance late next week or first week of March :-)
-
All SA crews are deployed to the Churchill-Jerralang complex :wink:
-
The current total fire size for the Kilmore East - Murrindindi Complex South Fire is approximately 75,034 hectares. CFA and DSE fire fighters together with crews from the Tasmanian, South Australian and New South Wales Fire Services will be joined by New Zealand fire fighters today. Crews from the United States will soon arrive.
Crews have constructed 85 kilometres of control lines throughout the complex and will continue to strengthen these in the coming days, including controlled burns.
-
Just a very quick differing point of veiw on the uniforms:
Blackdog, and others suggest that we would be "wasting" our money if it were put into developing and supplying a non firefighting operational uniform. One simple question though, are their any professional Fire Brigades in the country that still advocate wearing their PPE in and around the station day to day as a matter of course?
Honestly I don't think so. And why? OH&S. Think about it. The amount of harmful contaminants in your PPE, be it wildfire or structural, that you still suck down when you're wearing it or drop off as you walk around you station in it. It's not healthy in the slightest.
Now think about a large group of people wearing that in an aircraft after having worked flat chat for days at a time. I hope that those aircraft are getting decontaminated...
-
I have been given around 140 photos of our crews that went to churchill area i will sort and post soon just have to veto a few... Yes region 5 is going to be sending ongoing help/crews to Victoria for sometime today another 16 have gone over and i would say another 16 will go Saturday. I think there are around 10 guys from my group who have put there hand up and one of them is ME....
Our guys did say that all crews worked well and they had a great time having a MFS guy on the SALE TANKER, I understand there is now a new name for the CFS??? But i cant say on this post.... :lol:
-
BILL...TELL US.
-
photo of strike team 1006/1007,photo from shane smith Naracoorte brigade
-
if you work out how much it would cost to provide another uniform to the 10000 volunteers at abot 150 a throw that is $1.5 million. Now I'm sure at $10 polo shirt would be a cheaper option.
On another matter remember when I was urging caution with the urge to tear over the border to assist? Well it's started from the ABC News site:-
Mr Marshall (UFU)says the employment of firefighters from interstate and overseas has rubbed salt in the wounds for many.
"It's even more moral shattering when these professional people who serve the fire services of Victoria are sitting home not being utilised and they see overseas and interstate troops being brought in," he said.
It's a long article and the comments above need to be seen in context, however it's going to be an ugly couple of years for the CFA & MFB and it is sad that this has got out into the public domain - again.
cheers
-
10000 volunteers at abot 150 a throw that is $1.5 million
you only need about 2500 uniforms.....
Thats taking into account the number of active firefighters, and the number of who actually would wear it.
-
But you know as well as I do Zippy once someone has something everyone will want it :-D And of course you are right, but thats the way things are these days!
-
if you work out how much it would cost to provide another uniform to the 10000 volunteers at abot 150 a throw that is $1.5 million. Now I'm sure at $10 polo shirt would be a cheaper option.
On another matter remember when I was urging caution with the urge to tear over the border to assist? Well it's started from the ABC News site:-
Mr Marshall (UFU)says the employment of firefighters from interstate and overseas has rubbed salt in the wounds for many.
"It's even more moral shattering when these professional people who serve the fire services of Victoria are sitting home not being utilised and they see overseas and interstate troops being brought in," he said.
It's a long article and the comments above need to be seen in context, however it's going to be an ugly couple of years for the CFA & MFB and it is sad that this has got out into the public domain - again.
cheers
chook this article is really interesting as it also infers that the career CFA guys are similarly involved. I wonder if it isnt more about the internal macinations of the CFA vs the UFU than anything else. Certainly I would say there would be a little grandstanding from the UF regards their members, but it wouldnt be practical to reduce the coverage of other parts of Melb to support the other fires....but in the same breath, I understand those firefighters not involved being frustrated....very difficult. Hopefully this doesnt become a poisoned argument between management and the union with the public, and firefighters (career and vol) in the middle
-
if you work out how much it would cost to provide another uniform to the 10000 volunteers at abot 150 a throw that is $1.5 million. Now I'm sure at $10 polo shirt would be a cheaper option.
On another matter remember when I was urging caution with the urge to tear over the border to assist? Well it's started from the ABC News site:-
Mr Marshall (UFU)says the employment of firefighters from interstate and overseas has rubbed salt in the wounds for many.
"It's even more moral shattering when these professional people who serve the fire services of Victoria are sitting home not being utilised and they see overseas and interstate troops being brought in," he said.
It's a long article and the comments above need to be seen in context, however it's going to be an ugly couple of years for the CFA & MFB and it is sad that this has got out into the public domain - again.
cheers
Agreed Chook, there will be numerous CFA firies that feel that way, but do you "truly" believe that it was an option for interstate firies not to be deployed to assist. The Victorian government and CFA would be mauled by the media and opposition if after the worst fires since European settlement they closed the border to firefighting assistance, but then appealed to the Australian public for $$$$$$$, as they have!
The contingent of interstate and overseas firies is realistically not that great, more of a goodwill gesture I would have thought.
-
Yep, agree but regardless of the reasons, this little article now raises it's head (some would say again) some of the comments on the ABC make the situation clearer(i.e. payed fire fighters both MFB & CFA) & unless you are somehow attached to the payed firefighters the general public would see this a just more c**p. From a payed fire fighter point of view(not that I am one) however you can see the argument. And as an ex union member there is another argument all together :wink:
Its just going to get very messy in the next few months & no body will be winners. As an aside the NSW ambulance crews were ordered not to stike re: loosing their rescue crews! It is the big difference between doing some thing for payment & doing something for other reasons. At what point do you stop protecting your employment for the greater good?
-
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
Don't bet on it my group has 11 vehicles 2 of which are crew cabs a Landrover QAV & a 24P, the other 2 24Ps are at least 7-8 yrs old the 2 14s are 10-15 yrs old and the remaining 5 24s 1 is about 10 yrs old and 4 are 18yrs or older.
-
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
Don't bet on it my group has 11 vehicles 2 of which are crew cabs a Landrover QAV & a 24P, the other 2 24Ps are at least 7-8 yrs old the 2 14s are 10-15 yrs old and the remaining 5 24s 1 is about 10 yrs old and 4 are 18yrs or older.
Mmm but in other parts of the state, the number of dual cabs is slowly increasing.
my brigade could spare 1 of ours for interstate duties, but yeah would it come back in the same condition as it left? :P
-
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
Don't bet on it my group has 11 vehicles 2 of which are crew cabs a Landrover QAV & a 24P, the other 2 24Ps are at least 7-8 yrs old the 2 14s are 10-15 yrs old and the remaining 5 24s 1 is about 10 yrs old and 4 are 18yrs or older.
Mmm but in other parts of the state, the number of dual cabs is slowly increasing.
my brigade could spare 1 of ours for interstate duties, but yeah would it come back in the same condition as it left? :P
fair chance that would be a no zippy... :wink:
-
but i personally like to be able to turn up at an incident and get to work immediately, not have to explain to residents that WE ARE THE REAL FIRE SERVICE, and that we are actually capable of doing our job. I have had multiple occasions where people have genuinely asked where the "Real" firefighters (MFS) were... and this does not just extend to the public!
Come out to the country we (CFS) are the real & only fires service :wink:(no mets for miles) course the worst we country bumpkins have to deal with is tourists (city slickers) who don't know what a white fire truck looks like (even with the lights & siren going) :lol:
-
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
Don't bet on it my group has 11 vehicles 2 of which are crew cabs a Landrover QAV & a 24P, the other 2 24Ps are at least 7-8 yrs old the 2 14s are 10-15 yrs old and the remaining 5 24s 1 is about 10 yrs old and 4 are 18yrs or older.
Mmm but in other parts of the state, the number of dual cabs is slowly increasing.
my brigade could spare 1 of ours for interstate duties, but yeah would it come back in the same condition as it left? :P
Depends on what part of the state your in, But that's another subject altogether (Truck Replacement)
-
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
Don't bet on it my group has 11 vehicles 2 of which are crew cabs a Landrover QAV & a 24P, the other 2 24Ps are at least 7-8 yrs old the 2 14s are 10-15 yrs old and the remaining 5 24s 1 is about 10 yrs old and 4 are 18yrs or older.
Soooooo you will have lots of new trucks in the next few years....18 years ago you would have had one of the most modern fleets....
-
And when we send units on deployments, lets send our best, ie duel cabs with the "bells and whistles" not the 10+ year old units with crews having to spend many hours on the back while they are there.
I am sure there is by now enough in the state to send without depleting our responce to incidents within SA :-D
Don't bet on it my group has 11 vehicles 2 of which are crew cabs a Landrover QAV & a 24P, the other 2 24Ps are at least 7-8 yrs old the 2 14s are 10-15 yrs old and the remaining 5 24s 1 is about 10 yrs old and 4 are 18yrs or older.
Soooooo you will have lots of new trucks in the next few years....18 years ago you would have had one of the most modern fleets....
Ahh how times change :wink: :lol:
-
Does it really matter how modern the fleet is?
Except for the urban interface brigades that are doing lots of tasks a year, what is wrong with a 10+ year old vehicle for brigades that do less than 100 tasks a year? Yes the modern fleet has better crew protection, more comfortable etc.
Why not go down the path of another organisation who has a very large fleet - rebuilds! Half the price of new & you get the good ideas from the original with modern improvements.
The emergency services will find it harder to justify more equipment, when the insurance council quite rightly points out that they are contributing lots of dollars to the emergency services (NSW,VIC,QLD,TAS) without improved outcomes.
Sorry guys but for the majority of our work, we don't need to have the latest in every station, shed or unit.
Maybe a total re-think of how the natural disasters are dealt with going forward is required. From all accounts mother nature is going to get angrier & wilder, so having the latest dual cab isn't the go!
And as far as the color of your current fleet, I'm sure the specially marked fleets have the same problems - society generally just doesn't give a stuff for rules anymore. Sad but true!
And before everyone starts throwing electronic stones at me, take your firefighters helmet off for a minute & put yourself into the position of a normal member of the public that has to pay for all of this new stuff.
cheers
-
Because it has nothing to do with fleet management its all about the fact that everyone else had a new truck so I want one NOW ! There are some strange one's happening, eg Orroroo, Booleroo, etc etc, I think 10 calls or more is a bit silly, should be a lot higher, like I have said before, you wouldn't put your brand new Kenworth on yard work and stick your 20 year old Kenworth on interstate. Unless a brigade that does low call numbers has a special risk that the current appliance doesn't meet, why give them a brand spanker ? I still don't understand how fleet services rotates appliances in this state.
-
On top of which you have some brigades who have had their appliance for it's entire 18-20yr life span and would be happy with a refurb that is 10-15 yrs younger than their old one
-
Chook, Id take a dual cab with a halo system over a single cab anyday...particularly for a BURNOVER.
This happened in Victoria at kinglake.
Dualcabs are worth it indefinately. The next step for CFS is the "Rear entry door" and Remote control monitors. Steps towards safer appliances which CFA have already started moving into.
-
I am not sure what type of brigade you are from, thus am unsure as to your experiences... but i personally like to be able to turn up at an incident and get to work immediately, not have to explain to residents that WE ARE THE REAL FIRE SERVICE, and that we are actually capable of doing our job. I have had multiple occasions where people have genuinely asked where the "Real" firefighters (MFS) were... and this does not just extend to the public!
Pixie.
I find that if I arrive in a fire truck, and am wearing PPE with badges, and if I act like a real firefighter, then very few people suggest otherwise. As none of us should be on the fireground in anything other than PPE, I'm not sure why you think that this issue relates to uniform.
Pandering to the deficiencies of idiots is like chasing rabbits. It seems like a good idea at the time, but it stops you getting real work done.
There will always be idiots.
Dog.
There will always be idiots.
-
Just a very quick differing point of veiw on the uniforms:
Honestly I don't think so. And why? OH&S. Think about it. The amount of harmful contaminants in your PPE, be it wildfire or structural, that you still suck down when you're wearing it or drop off as you walk around you station in it. It's not healthy in the slightest.
Then why are you spending money on uniforms, when what you need is a second set of PPE.... or do you wear contaminated yellows until you get time to have them washed?
If you have a second set of PPE, why ask the question?
Finding uncontaminated non-PPE clothes is easy, unless you normally go naked.
Dog.... (in summer coat)
-
itd be nice to keep yellows to the rural fireground, golds to the urban fireground and other calls, and a non-ppe uniform which would be an undergarment under PPE or a more casual dress uniform.
so pretty much a firefighter uniform that isnt PPE.
95% of calls i change out of my home/good clothes into my brigade shirt at the station just to not get the smoke in my own clothes. This is where a identical uniform would look nice...
-
But "look" nice yeah if you really want that you can put your own dosh up for a blue/green shirt.
I do admit it is a bit annoying getting caught when you are rather dressed up and end up getting smelly but toughen up the washing machine is good for something.
Contaminated uniforms is something that is an issue that seems to be ignored in CFS but almost all other fire services are active in preventing any health risks from it. I have noticed that some brigades/groups are very active in getting spare PBI promptly for their brigades after big jobs. this is a good move.
Now lets get back on topic shall we? :-D
-
Zippy, while I agree halo's should be fitted Dual cabs don't prevent fatalities in burn overs.
Dual cabs cut back on tank capacity, afterall isnt water carrying capacity what you really need?
You already have appliances that can't go where they are required, if previous posts on this forum are to be be believed.
Remote monitors and spray bars can be retrofitted, so can larger capacity tanks & halos. What you should be looking at is how to achieve more with less, not buying very expensive (imported)dual cab 4x4 trucks that most brigades struggle to get enough bums for all of the seats anyway.
As I said previously the emergency services are going to be hard pressed to justify more equipment, when numbers of members are falling & everytime the "big one" hits there are bad outcomes- remember the general community have short memories (are they getting shorter?) all they remember is what they contribute & how much they have lost.
Anyway guess I'm sure I have said enough :wink:
cheers
-
Chook - NEGATIVE :wink:
The Dualcab 34's are a massive improvement over the 1980's 24's.
- everyone in the same cab.
- more airtight environment.
- Halo system, cools the exterior of the truck to avoid the interior of the cab being compromised by the severe heat, it wont stop all heat.
- In cab breathing system, 1 35min Breathing Air cylinder shared among a crew of UP to 6. To be honest, id have a crew of 4 in a dual cab in the Victorian fires, you never know when you might need to pick up strangers.
- 3000L tank...20% is 600L...i cant remember of the top of my head, but if the Driver avoids activating the Halo system till the last minute (just before it becomes unbearable)....it should go a long way. Dont waste it on waiting for the fire to come to you. Careful choice essentially.
This...all coming from the fingers of a *inexperienced* firefighter.
-
Err....
It may be true that a dual cab is "safer" and has slightly better communications But For all bush firefighting that i have been involved in i would only take the dual cabs for slightly improved comfort. The situational awerness afforded by being on a crew deck is great as well as practical size and layout of appliances.
Take the above comment in terms of Bush fir fighting NOT urban work.
-
I find that if I arrive in a fire truck, and am wearing PPE with badges
badges?....badges?....we don't need no steenking badges
-
I find that if I arrive in a fire truck, and am wearing PPE with badges
badges?....badges?....we don't need no steenking badges
:-D Gold......you even got stinking spelt right!
-
Have a look at these two stories from CFA fire fighters.
The first one will have you thinking about our own crew safety on the fireground and the single cab v dual cab argument.
http://69.4.229.229/~spirlei0/leishman/blogb/?p=423 (http://69.4.229.229/~spirlei0/leishman/blogb/?p=423)
http://platypus.wandin.net/dotclear/index.php?post/2009/02/20/The-story-of-1-Fire-Fighter (http://platypus.wandin.net/dotclear/index.php?post/2009/02/20/The-story-of-1-Fire-Fighter)
-
WOW :-o Great read.
-
mattb....great link, well done
chilling insight into how quickly it can turn pear-shaped
-
thanks mattb
i agree a great read :-o
every one should read it (i read it twice to fully grasp what they went through)
bring on the duel cabs.:-)
-
Great read - thanks
-
Just a word of warning. The "Halo" and other protective spray systems are only designed for fires less than 10MW/M (FDI 40, 20 Tonnes/Hectare). During Black Saturday the FDI was 100-300 and the fuels loads were 40+ Tonnes in places. Any tanker (Halo eqipped, Fire King etc) could not survive these conditions.
-
i could see the firekings taking on much more than a standard halo'ed 34P...but then again, theres just fires you wouldnt go against ever. Comes down to, only do what a Standard old 24 can do, to stay safe.
Anyone else heading to victoria soon?
-
Pixie.
I find that if I arrive in a fire truck, and am wearing PPE with badges, and if I act like a real firefighter, then very few people suggest otherwise. As none of us should be on the fireground in anything other than PPE, I'm not sure why you think that this issue relates to uniform.
Ah, you must be from one of those special brigades that is still hanging onto its decade old issue of Badged PPE. Nothing I've recieved in the past few years, outside of the dress uniform, has anything badge related on it - Maybe thats why people get us confused? ;)
You should perhaps take a look at fatigue and heat stress management policies, as by the sounds of it, you've never dressed down on the fireground by taking off your turnout coat. A Brigade/Service shirt looks 110% better than a torn wifebeater or business shirt.
Then why are you spending money on uniforms, when what you need is a second set of PPE.... or do you wear contaminated yellows until you get time to have them washed?
If you have a second set of PPE, why ask the question?
Finding uncontaminated non-PPE clothes is easy, unless you normally go naked.
I can get my PBI washed by Lion, but getting a spare set has been like pulling teeth. I don't know where to wash my nomex. I refuse to do it at home, and the local drycleaner isn't very fond of me rocking up with armfuls of contaminated clothing! If I had to clean my PPE every time it got dirty, then I would be sending away the PBI weekly and the Nomex monthly!
Just think... if only we had a set of 'station wear' that we could wear under our PPE to jobs, use it instead of turnout gear at rescues, wear inside a Gas Suit, and use to look professional at Public Events!
We'ed at least look like we know what we are doing...
Anyone else heading to victoria soon?
Yeah, but in the back of a Holden V8 Ute, sitting on a carton of Pale, with a shotgun across my lap. (Gotta protect the boarder somehow!)
-
Pixie.
I find that if I arrive in a fire truck, and am wearing PPE with badges, and if I act like a real firefighter, then very few people suggest otherwise. As none of us should be on the fireground in anything other than PPE, I'm not sure why you think that this issue relates to uniform.
Ah, you must be from one of those special brigades that is still hanging onto its decade old issue of Badged PPE. Nothing I've recieved in the past few years, outside of the dress uniform, has anything badge related on it - Maybe thats why people get us confused? ;)
You should perhaps take a look at fatigue and heat stress management policies, as by the sounds of it, you've never dressed down on the fireground by taking off your turnout coat. A Brigade/Service shirt looks 110% better than a torn wifebeater or business shirt.
Then why are you spending money on uniforms, when what you need is a second set of PPE.... or do you wear contaminated yellows until you get time to have them washed?
If you have a second set of PPE, why ask the question?
Finding uncontaminated non-PPE clothes is easy, unless you normally go naked.
I can get my PBI washed by Lion, but getting a spare set has been like pulling teeth. I don't know where to wash my nomex. I refuse to do it at home, and the local drycleaner isn't very fond of me rocking up with armfuls of contaminated clothing! If I had to clean my PPE every time it got dirty, then I would be sending away the PBI weekly and the Nomex monthly!
Just think... if only we had a set of 'station wear' that we could wear under our PPE to jobs, use it instead of turnout gear at rescues, wear inside a Gas Suit, and use to look professional at Public Events!
We'ed at least look like we know what we are doing...
Anyone else heading to victoria soon?
Yeah, but in the back of a Holden V8 Ute, sitting on a carton of Pale, with a shotgun across my lap. (Gotta protect the boarder somehow!)
Region 1 PBI spare sets, hand in the Dirty set's and ask for the same size back there and there, send them back when your own set returns ;) Theres apparently a good 30 or so spare sets..of varying sizes.
Hehe, have to keep the mexicans away from stealing our V8's.
With clothing...we'd also look the part when televised on TV....which would make Euan smile.
-
Region 1 PBI spare sets, hand in the Dirty set's and ask for the same size back there and there, send them back when your own set returns ;) Theres apparently a good 30 or so spare sets..of varying sizes.
And spend the next few months waiting for my own set back... Yeah, fun. I've had problems in the past, perhaps its time to throw myself at the mercy of Region again? Although that never tends to work out well...
-
you can drive out to gepps cross if you want :-D
-
you can drive out to gepps cross if you want :-D
And thus get kicked in the behind by Region... ;)
-
youll probably get a good turn around when its not fire season ;)
3 weeks myself.
-
youll probably get a good turn around when its not fire season ;)
3 weeks myself.
I would have hoped that July was not classed as 'Fire Season'. I must have been wrong. Its like the Bermuda Triangle up there at R1HQ.
-
you can drive out to gepps cross if you want :-D
And thus get kicked in the behind by Region... ;)
oh? i know people how have done this and got their gear back the next day, Even though region is "there to help" sometimes mabey you should help yourself
-
oh? i know people how have done this and got their gear back the next day, Even though region is "there to help" sometimes mabey you should help yourself
Yes, I know how much of a short turn around time you can achieve by cutting out the bloated middleman that is Region, but I have had enough of the "Please explain why you didn't follow procedure" firecrackers.
-
Members of my brigade have also been chastised for not sending the PBI via region 1 as well. We have a couple members that work that way and were happy to take it in, turn around time was a couple days, but noooo, got to take it to Region so that some person can bag and tag it, to take it to the same place that we took it, sigh....and get it back in several weeks.
As for processing other orders, don't get me started...
-
Those two articles were a chilling read, reminded me of Ash Wednesday, but as a CFA Captain said "this fire made Ash Wednesday look like a grass fire" No joke :-o
-
Members of my brigade have also been chastised for not sending the PBI via region 1 as well. We have a couple members that work that way and were happy to take it in, turn around time was a couple days, but noooo, got to take it to Region so that some person can bag and tag it, to take it to the same place that we took it, sigh....and get it back in several weeks.
As for processing other orders, don't get me started...
oh you boys need to live a little more on the wild side.....kids will always bang that fence and the dog will always bark....both are harmless, just fulfilling the expectations we have of both
-
Remote monitors and spray bars can be retrofitted, so can larger capacity tanks & halos.
Not if you ask first they can't.
We have been told that we are prohibited from (note "prohibited" as distinct from merely a refusal to pay for) retro-fitting our Suzie FCS750 with a halo system "because it hasn't been tested"
This despite the 750 being one of the vehicles that CSIRO & NSW RFS specifically designed the system around.
-
you then refer the refuser to contact the NSW RFS for the testing paperwork for there FCS750. ;) get one step ahead of em.
-
I wish I could share your optimism. For example, when the independant OHS inspection organised by CFS failed to find any significant hazards on the 10y/o
PTO 34 appliance we bought from NSW RFS, they did their own in a blatant attempt to keep it out of the fleet. Were miffed when we fixed every one of the
things they raised to prohibit it - rear cab steps too narrow, 20c patch of rust
near the back of the cab roof, no drain holes in the hand grips, non-approved
design of deck access stairs, etc etc. After doing all that plus a re-spray,
the vehicle still cost us less than the pump alone would have, new. Aside from
a couple of minor ergonomic irrits, it is a damn good truck.
Faced with that sort of petty-minded BS, do you think we could possibly believe
the sort of people who drive the OH&S side of our organisation would accept
anything on paper that they didn't generate themselves ?
cheers
-
Yes that is silly not allowing burnover protection, then again if you actually asked to purchase the truck that might have helped :-)
-
We did have written approval. On the basis of bringing 2 brigades up to SFEC.
Unfortunately, it was the sort of approval that meant "Yes you can buy one,
but I bet you can't find one that meets the CFS criteria (diesel, <10y/o, etc)
at a price you can afford to pay. Har, har, har."
Belair got our 14 to bring them up to SFEC.
We got a second heavy appliance to bring us up to SFEC.
Smug public servant/s got shirty because volunteers achieved what they either
could not, or would not do. Kind of sours vols-staff relationship.
cheers
-
good work :)
-
I don't know where to wash my nomex. I refuse to do it at home, and the local drycleaner isn't very fond of me rocking up with armfuls of contaminated clothing! If I had to clean my PPE every time it got dirty, then I would be sending away the PBI weekly and the Nomex monthly!
Get your brigade (as others have done) to get their own washing machine
-
Ehhhhh Sarge....Can we enlighten you to why washing machines shouldnt be used.. (Nomex i dont mind washing machines, but i hand wash it anyhow)
-
By all Means do, as well as the thousands of others that use washing machines
-
youll find your comparatively expensive PBI Sets deterioate much faster.....I hope AT THE LEAST when you wash PBI Gold you take the liner out of it.
dont blame ya thought your thoughts, things are done a gazziloin number of ways all over the state. ill just need to arrange 6789382 to straighten you out.
SOP What?
-
youll find your comparatively expensive PBI Sets deterioate much faster.....I hope AT THE LEAST when you wash PBI Gold you take the liner out of it.
dont blame ya thought your thoughts, things are done a gazziloin number of ways all over the state. ill just need to arrange 6789382 to straighten you out.
SOP What?
Sorry Crossed comms, I was refering to nomex and proban not PBI (That one I'm aware that it has to be sent to Lion).
-
youll find your comparatively expensive PBI Sets deterioate much faster.....I hope AT THE LEAST when you wash PBI Gold you take the liner out of it.
dont blame ya thought your thoughts, things are done a gazziloin number of ways all over the state. ill just need to arrange 6789382 to straighten you out.
SOP What?
Sorry Crossed comms, I was refering to nomex and proban not PBI (That one I'm aware that it has to be sent to Lion).
ahh proban.....soooo 19th century.....anyone know how many washes it takes to lose the proban treatment from the cotton material?
-
youll find your comparatively expensive PBI Sets deterioate much faster.....I hope AT THE LEAST when you wash PBI Gold you take the liner out of it.
dont blame ya thought your thoughts, things are done a gazziloin number of ways all over the state. ill just need to arrange 6789382 to straighten you out.
SOP What?
Sorry Crossed comms, I was refering to nomex and proban not PBI (That one I'm aware that it has to be sent to Lion).
ahh proban.....soooo 19th century.....anyone know how many washes it takes to lose the proban treatment from the cotton material?
You can still wash it in a machine just not too often. :wink:
-
ahh proban.....soooo 19th century.....anyone know how many washes it takes to lose the proban treatment from the cotton material?
I have seen one manufacturers blurb claiming 500 washes with minimal effect.
In detergent.
They specify very clearly, in upper-case type to use detergent, not soap.
I suspect therefore, that ordinary soap removes it rather quicker.
But how much quicker is anyone's guess.
cheers
-
well i believe mine said to use lux flakes or something similar. ( thought that was soap)
-
The instructions that came with my PBI Gold said to wash it in a normal washing machine. Not sure it said anything about removing the liner either... Where are you getting your info Zippy?