SA Firefighter

Technical Discussion => ALL Rescue => Topic started by: boss on October 17, 2006, 01:57:11 PM

Title: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 17, 2006, 01:57:11 PM
Does anyone now who's getting the state aircraft rescue unit I have heard Tanunda,Anguston or Williamstown is post to be getting it.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bajdas on October 17, 2006, 02:01:55 PM
Where did you here of another 'aircraft rescue unit'?

Do you mean another plane or helicopter, or is this specialised training for people ? Sorry, but I do not understand the terminology.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 17, 2006, 03:02:19 PM
A full on state rescue unit like the hazmat guys but just aircraft instead.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bajdas on October 17, 2006, 05:11:14 PM
Personally I hope this is a SAFECOM purchase & available to multi-services. I know it was discussed as part of a state-wide USAR response

I admit I am confused at the difference between the existing aircraft to transport people & equipment, and this proposed one ?
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 17, 2006, 05:22:44 PM
All I know is the brigade that is lucky enough to get it will be given a bigger unit for the jobs.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Camo on October 17, 2006, 05:26:59 PM
Just so i know i am on the right track.

You are talking about a unit that specifically deals with aircraft crashes across the state?

Explain some details as im probaly not the only one confused.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on October 17, 2006, 05:45:04 PM
Why would they give it to a non RCR brigade surely you'd give it to a pre existing RCR unit??
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 17, 2006, 05:58:30 PM
Well I don't now why but all I can tell you there looking to start up one that is not road crush rescue the crew will have special training for it.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: medevac on October 17, 2006, 08:50:17 PM
mmm.... sounds like a waste of time and money


i havent heard any whisper of this though, sounds odd mate.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 17, 2006, 10:52:26 PM
well you never know when it will come in handy thats the thing.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: medevac on October 17, 2006, 11:05:29 PM
what specialised equipment exists for air craft rescue?

i say it would be a waste of time, because theres very little point in having one set of specialised rescue equipment in one place in the state.... with the state hazmat vehicle, its slightly differant as hazmats are a slow procedure, not time critical unlike rescue...

besides, if speicialised equipment exists for aircraft incidents, then surely it already exists in the state at adelaide airport, and with companies like transfield??? why not just utilise these resources if need be...

that way we dont have to try to take over another emergency response role. and dont have to worry about the extra training it would entail...
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on October 17, 2006, 11:31:42 PM
We've gone through a fair bit of aircraft rescue procedure as we cover a reasonably busy rural airport and all you need is basic knowledge and heavy rescue gear!! The best one we were told was don't walk in front of a fighter jet after it has gone down (as if there would be much left) because if the radar is operating it will basically cook you within a second or two??
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 17, 2006, 11:47:43 PM
bizzy Raul airports are the key to this thing plus air shows that can't afford filtered tranfild units but ask CFS to do it when the shows over all they have to do is just chuck a slab coldes on the back the truck job done
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Camo on October 18, 2006, 02:15:03 PM
We've gone through a fair bit of aircraft rescue procedure as we cover a reasonably busy rural airport and all you need is basic knowledge and heavy rescue gear!! The best one we were told was don't walk in front of a fighter jet after it has gone down (as if there would be much left) because if the radar is operating it will basically cook you within a second or two??

We got told once if it is a military plane dont go near it.  Something to do with the secrets of technology i guess.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 18, 2006, 02:55:58 PM
I don't no why they all got the same junk on board more than likey  pics of john howard doing the limbo.HEHEHE
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: 2090 on October 18, 2006, 03:04:31 PM
Surely you can achieve everything you need to in an aircraft rescue with Hydraulic Rescue tools? The majority of an aircraft is made up of material similar to what is being seen in new cars is it not? The only thing that you would need that most RCR appliances don't have is some heavy duty shoring equip.

Boss, are you ok? You seem a bit wired.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 18, 2006, 03:30:13 PM
no no no iam fine been out in hill billy country too long. but referring to the first question which brigade would you choose if it came down to those 3.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on October 18, 2006, 03:39:09 PM
None. You couldn't have one unit for this you would need multiple units around the state, and even then i don't think it would be worth it, as if something big goes down your going to have a mountain of brigades and equipment on the way so i think a unit like tis would be pointless.
I believe that brigades that have a airport within their primary and very near secondary area should get the relevant training on how to approach planes, positioning of appliance for emergency landings and general knowledge of "whatever you do stay away from this" would be sufficient.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Camo on October 18, 2006, 03:57:10 PM
Does anyone now who's getting the state aircraft rescue unit I have heard Tanunda,Anguston or Williamstown is post to be getting it.

Do any of the mentioned above even have an airstrip?
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: boss on October 18, 2006, 04:14:37 PM
yes williamstown has the mt crewford air strip tanunda and anguston has 6 to 7 strips around the valley .
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bajdas on October 18, 2006, 06:14:24 PM
Would a SAFECOM plane be worth it for transporting specialist teams of people & equipment to the nearest airfield to a large scale incident.

For example, a large HAZMAT or USAR incident at a regional centre (eg Whyalla). Strike Teams to KI rather than commercial flights. Air Observing platform.

....or is this already catered for with the aircraft that already exist within the state (eg Rescue 51).
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Camo on October 18, 2006, 06:58:19 PM
Any large scale incident is going to happen at or near a large airport - Adelaide. 

Yes large aircraft can crash elsewhere but are more then likely going to just be a salvage job as its pretty rare for anyone to survive after a 20,000+ feet plummet. 

The only other passenger orientated airports around the state are Mt Gambier, Pt Lincoln & Whyalla.  Which are all covered by MFS who have the RCR capabilities to handle an aircraft rescue.

So really any unit as you have described is pointless unless stationed at these airports.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bittenyakka on October 18, 2006, 08:05:08 PM
acording to an article in Australian Aviation about the Airport fier service at Sydney you have approx 3 min to put the fire out for any hope of survivors.

Back on point Why not give the Brigades with heavy RCR or in the response zones of airstrips some basic tranning.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: RescueHazmat on October 18, 2006, 08:53:21 PM
The only training available which would be of any use would be componenets of Public Safety Cert III ~ Respond to Aviation Rescue, or the International Aviation Fire Fighters Training.


Which may I add, is thousands upon thousands of dollars.


My 2c worth.. - This will never happen, if an aviation incident was to occur, outside of the metro area, a response just like any other would occur.  With the possibility of increased Rescue, Hazmat and GP apliances.

There may be *some* limited training to stations that cover fairly active airfields, but I believe this is as far as it would go.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: 2090 on October 18, 2006, 10:03:44 PM
Would a SAFECOM plane be worth it for transporting specialist teams of people & equipment to the nearest airfield to a large scale incident.

For example, a large HAZMAT or USAR incident at a regional centre (eg Whyalla). Strike Teams to KI rather than commercial flights. Air Observing platform.

....or is this already catered for with the aircraft that already exist within the state (eg Rescue 51).
This is already catered for with current aircraft, atleast for Hazmat. If you were looking at trying to transport anything bigger than people/small lightweight equipment, then you would need a larger aircraft. I don't think that SAFECOM purchasing its own plane would be economically viable for a handful of uses a year.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Pipster on October 19, 2006, 01:40:33 AM

The only other passenger orientated airports around the state are Mt Gambier, Pt Lincoln & Whyalla.  Which are all covered by MFS who have the RCR capabilities to handle an aircraft rescue.



I would have thought Roxby Downs has a fair bit of air traffic going through it too.....

And isn't North Shields closer to the Lincoln airfield, than the Lincoln MFS?    :evil:

Pip
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: probie_boy on October 19, 2006, 02:06:55 PM
why not have specialist rail rescue units too then?
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: 2090 on October 19, 2006, 02:52:33 PM
Its called the heavy rescue pod  :wink:
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: medevac on October 19, 2006, 09:13:14 PM
Quote
My 2c worth.. - This will never happen, if an aviation incident was to occur, outside of the metro area, a response just like any other would occur.  With the possibility of increased Rescue, Hazmat and GP apliances.

it does happen.

Salisbury CFS quite often respond to parafield airport with MFS for incidents. There have been incidents at Pt Augusta airport that stirling north have responded to assist mfs at... There was also a job at murray bridge just a week or so ago.

Normal road crash responses apply with the addition of HAZMAT if deemed necessary.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: RescueHazmat on October 19, 2006, 11:17:02 PM
Quote
My 2c worth.. - This will never happen, if an aviation incident was to occur, outside of the metro area, a response just like any other would occur.  With the possibility of increased Rescue, Hazmat and GP apliances.

it does happen.

Salisbury CFS quite often respond to parafield airport with MFS for incidents. There have been incidents at Pt Augusta airport that stirling north have responded to assist mfs at... There was also a job at murray bridge just a week or so ago.

Normal road crash responses apply with the addition of HAZMAT if deemed necessary.


 :roll:  This is where forums really come into a par of there own... - I wasn't saying the jobs will not occur, I was saying the "building / designing / making" of a specialised Aircraft Rescue Unit would not occur... - Then went onto mention if an aviation type incident occured, a response to fit the incidents specific requirements would be tasked. Weather this be the heavy rescue pod, foam pod, aviation tenders, rescue and hazmat resources, general purpose pumpers etc etc..
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: JC on June 09, 2007, 02:34:56 AM

The only other passenger orientated airports around the state are Mt Gambier, Pt Lincoln & Whyalla.  Which are all covered by MFS who have the RCR capabilities to handle an aircraft rescue.



I would have thought Roxby Downs has a fair bit of air traffic going through it too.....

Just brining up a dead thread, you would be right pip, Olympic Dam has 4-5 Rex flights a day, with just about all planes full of passengers, plus a heap of private planes coming in & out daily.
Everyone seems to be worried about rescue gear, if a plane hits the deck that hard that things in or on the plane needs to be cut, spread or similar, id be wanting to have the foam capability on the truck to cover the plane and the surrounding area before wanting to go anywhere near that plane. Its fine if your talking 5-6 seater Cessna's like at parafield, but a Rex plane will need more foam than most CFS trucks carry.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: fireblade on June 11, 2007, 06:32:15 PM
Santos at Moomba have a Bae 146 carrying 80 P.O.B. that does 2 landings and 2 take offs a day plus a shuttle aircraft in between Moomba and a Queensland site called Ballera just over the boarder that flies a Fokker F-100 between there and Brisbane. plus rig planes and Helicopter operations.

All of which is covered by a Isuzu Heavy pumper with a rosenbauer pump and roof monitor at each airstrip and back up of a sky jet at Moomba.

Your non military planes you just have to worry about P.O.B.s, fuel, batteries and oxygen cylinders. Fire appliances that cover Santos air strips have crash cards on board describing the cautions of each individual aircraft.

Also the ESO's up there have a self contained Holmatro rescue tool and kit that can be taken on a Helicopter for any remote rescue-medivac before arrival of an Appliance.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Evac on June 13, 2007, 11:31:49 AM
I can tell you SA has no problems, look at Newman, WA, has 2 x 737's plus numerous other regional flights a day. All covered by a volunter station and the surrounding mines rescue guys, all with no training. But if you look at the CASA and ICAO standards there is absolutley no requirement to have a F & R service available in those situations. So why waste cfs resources training for a situation that is already the responsability of another govt. organisation?
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: fireblade on June 13, 2007, 07:09:33 PM
Wow thats amazing Evac. I guess it just comes down to the company that owns the airstrip i guess the Newman one is owed by a mining company?

Also you just have to look at Parafield, heaps of flights there and only MFS covering it with general purpose pumpers.

A state aircraft rescue unit I'm sure CFS could spend money on better projects.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bittenyakka on June 13, 2007, 08:05:16 PM
Just out of interest what equipment would a aircraft rescue unit requier that a standard heavy RCR brigade doesn't have. assuming that there is no fire danger.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Firefrog on June 13, 2007, 09:31:37 PM
Flying fuel tanks usually attract quite a bit of fire danger :-P
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Darius on June 13, 2007, 09:58:55 PM
Wow thats amazing Evac. I guess it just comes down to the company that owns the airstrip i guess the Newman one is owed by a mining company?

it's a BHP town (Pilbara WA), the Mt Whaleback mine in Newman is the largest single pit open cut mine in the world.

Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bittenyakka on June 13, 2007, 10:07:37 PM
I understand planes have large fuel tanks but if you are going to say that then every airport might as well have a 6*6 aircraft firefighting tender as a minimum which is very impractical. I wan to know how much gear should be carried to perform 20 "cut outs" at once mabey once ever 15 years??

i have heard that with a plane crash you have about 3 minutes to get the fire out if you want people to survive.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Evac on June 14, 2007, 12:41:31 PM
If they are not owned by FAC.(or the DOD) Most airstrips/airfields are owned by councils around the country. There are very few private strips around(if any) that can land anything much bigger than a cessna.
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: bajdas on June 14, 2007, 01:03:29 PM
09:43:08 14-06-07 SHQ: MEDIA LIAISON, FYI ALDINGA BEACH, SELLICKS, WILLUNGA ATT. AIRCRAFT CRASH IN VINEYARD OFF ADEY RD, ALDINGA, 2 PPL INJURED, LARGE FUEL LEAK, RDO <name> GOING FORWARD > 14/06/2007 9:43:23 AM

09:32:10 14-06-07 SHQ: *CFSRES: FROM SAAS: LOCATION OF PLANE IN VINEYARD, BETWEEN ADEY RD & BISCAY RD, LEFT HAND SIDE, ADEY RD SIGNPOSTED AS CULLEY RD. POSSIBLY NO VEHICLE ACCESS. < 14/06/2007 9:32:22 AM

09:26:05 14-06-07 SHQ: <name>, ALDINGA BEACH & SELLICKS RESPONDING AIRCRAFT CRASH, ON PROPERTY 1 KM SOUTH OF ALDINGA ON SOUTH ROAD, RAPID 720 932 > 14/06/2007 9:26:19 AM

09:23:53 14-06-07 SHQ: <name>, ALDINGA BEACH & SELLICKS RESPONDING AIRCRAFT CRASH, ON PROPERTY 1 KM SOUTH OF ALDINGA ON SOUTH ROAD, > 14/06/2007 9:24:07 AM

09:22:42 14-06-07 SHQ: *CFSRES: ALDINGA BEACH, SELLICKS & WILLUNGA RESPOND SMALL PLANE CRASH, RAPID NO. 720932, 1 KM SOUTH OF ALDINGA ON SOUTH RD. < 14/06/2007 9:22:54 AM
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on June 14, 2007, 04:41:29 PM
If they are not owned by FAC.(or the DOD) Most airstrips/airfields are owned by councils around the country. There are very few private strips around(if any) that can land anything much bigger than a cessna.

Goolwa is privately owned and can land anything up to a 737 (mind you if they land it i don't think it's long enough to take off again)
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: standpipe on June 14, 2007, 07:22:42 PM
If they are not owned by FAC.(or the DOD) Most airstrips/airfields are owned by councils around the country. There are very few private strips around(if any) that can land anything much bigger than a cessna.
Quite the contrary, Adelaide and Parafield are both privately operated and have been for many years. Although thy are not "privately owned' they are both on a 99 year lease. FAC has not existed for nearly 10 years. Most big airfields around the country, Melbourne/Sydney etc are all pivately operated
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: sesroadcrashrescue on August 17, 2007, 10:46:11 PM
before coming to kapunda i was with tanunda and there was talk of a new truck built for aircraft crashes with all the fancy gear on board and the shuits you see them wear from what i was told tanunda look like the brigade that will get it if it happens
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: Big Yellow Gongbeater on October 30, 2010, 03:02:31 PM
For starters Undertake Road Accident Rescue is a pre requisite of Undertake Aviation Response (General & Specialist) therefore why would such a role (if it was to even exist) be given to a non rescue brigade to start with?

Secondly CASA dictates (based on the international standard) the requirements for airfield response irrespective of whether it is publically or privately owned. The response type is based on not just aircraft types but total passenger movements. For all the techno nerds out there who feel the need to become self proclaimed experts you can find all the details through the CASA website.


Blah Blah Blah
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: jaff on October 30, 2010, 11:54:00 PM
So adding a extra pair of tin snips to the toolkit wont do the job?
Title: Re: CFS NEW AIRCRAFT RESCUE UNIT
Post by: rescue5271 on October 31, 2010, 06:30:55 AM
Mount Gambier airport is owned by the council fire/rescue cover is done by MFS/CFS/SES the airport will soon be able to take larger and private jets once they have done some work to runaways.

Some years ago in Victoria the airport fire service was removed from a number of busy airports as a cost cutting measure and control was handed over to MMFB and CFA since then there have been lots of crashlandings and other emergency at these airports. There was talk about 5 years ago about putting the airport fire service back into these airports but the cost was too great.

As part of CASA  rule's local emergency services must hold every 2 years a crashlanding training day at the airport ...So how many brigades are doing this with their local airports/airfields???