SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SASES => Topic started by: Mike on August 07, 2008, 08:17:50 AM
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It would appear that SES are going to adopt an entry level medical for members.
Not sure on all the details as yet.
Ill post some more details as they come to light.....
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By the look of some of their current members it had better not be any harder then vertical with a pulse :-D though I think the pulse is at the moment, optional :lol: joking people joking
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Funny guy :-D - Same could be said for some of the guys in yellow :wink:
I've got a copy of whats proposed but as it hasn't been discussed at the regional UMAG & I'm not part of that forum anymore it would be inappropriate to disclose the details except to say it's a graduated thing depending on the activity the prospective member wants to undertake (General Rescue, RCR, VR, USAR cat2 etc).
Personally I think it's long overdue and would have saved me a lot of work when I first took over my former unit (most of the membership of the unit then would not have got passed the first stage).
Again it's a risk management strategy, most employers have pre-employment medicals, so why not have them for people who by the very nature of the tasks presents a great risk.
cheers
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fitness tests anybody?
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm What next.......
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Breath Testing to start up the truck :P
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Seems like some members of the forum are threatened by fitness testing...
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Gee if they introduce that then most of the SES and CFS will cease to exist !!
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I have not seen any documents yet, just read the article in the latest Frontline (Physical and Psychological Guidelines, page 6, Frontline, July 2008).
Personally I have concerns on volunteers privacy of existing medical & psychological conditions in a small community...what happens if the person turns up to volunteer & is then knocked back by the medical/psyc test. Will rumours start in the community as to why ??
Can we guarantee that the Unit/Brigade hierarchy will maintain confidentiality or will they just get a letter stating 'non compliant' ??
What rights does the volunteer have to appeal (esp a psychological test) ??
Will their be followup medicals at each competency renewal ?
Will the psychological test take into account existing medication for the illness ?
Will the organisation pay for the volunteer to travel to have the tests done if they are not available locally ?
I can understand for some training/qualifications that the volunteer needs certain attributes (eg confined space rescue in BA & vertical harness is very scary).
Soooo many questions & the consultation process was to start in July 2008.
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SAAS have been doing it for ages......whats the problem?
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BM - Do SAAS fitness test there vollies or paid staff only?
Personally i wouldnt mind seeing some fitness standards in the CFS...
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The only problem I see Andrew is who is going to have the final say?
If someone does make the minimum standard Will Unit managers/ State HQ be able to over rule the doctors report?
As for the confidentiality thing - don't see it as an issue as I said Companies are doing it now. Having said that it was the main topic for discussion @ the UMAG last night, my views don't represent the majority :-D
cheers
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BM - Do SAAS fitness test there vollies or paid staff only?
Personally i wouldnt mind seeing some fitness standards in the CFS...
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both - vollies and paid
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To open a can of worms, I believe strongly that the CFS needs to look at fitness beyond the BA medical.
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Beep Test, i believe the MFS Standard is quite high....cut it in half and see who can get through it for statistical purposes only? :P:P
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well i believe the MFS is 9.6 and i remember in high school 4.5 was really easy to obtain. But i havent done it in a while.
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i would be happy to see a better fitness standard in the cfs but with that it creates a problem.
its hard enough to get more vollies....are they gonna be bothered if they have to go through a fitness test?
on the other hand it will weed out the dedicated from the time wasters
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It would create a goal to achieve as part of BFF1? :P A pre-course Beep test...have to train up for it.
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Cant see it happening as its too hard now to get new members out in the country,who ever came up with this crap must have nothing else to do at his or her desk job.....I agree 100% with cam.....
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Cant see it happening as its too hard now to get new members out in the country,who ever came up with this crap must have nothing else to do at his or her desk job.....I agree 100% with cam.....
Would work in a community culture that Brigade Membership is something to aspire to, &
"Fire-Fighter" someone to be respected for what & who they are. Such a culture is
foreign to most Australian towns I think. Possibly because brigades have lowered the fire-fighter bar to one which carries no particular respect ? Could such a culture be
created ? I think it could be done in 10-20 years in townships. Maybe. Will be a
brave management committee that starts down that road - training starts with a run
around the block & exercises, just like the footy club up the road...
For those in areas where fire is just another part of their normal job (most farming
areas?), it will never happen. On the other hand, most farmers I know would have no
trouble at all meeting any -reasonable- fitness standard. Or any other reasonable
competence standard.
cheers
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Cant see it happening as its too hard now to get new members out in the country,who ever came up with this crap must have nothing else to do at his or her desk job.....I agree 100% with cam.....
Would work in a community culture that Brigade Membership is something to aspire to, &
"Fire-Fighter" someone to be respected for what & who they are. Such a culture is
foreign to most Australian towns I think. Possibly because brigades have lowered the fire-fighter bar to one which carries no particular respect ? Could such a culture be
created ? I think it could be done in 10-20 years in townships. Maybe. Will be a
brave management committee that starts down that road - training starts with a run
around the block & exercises, just like the footy club up the road...
For those in areas where fire is just another part of their normal job (most farming
areas?), it will never happen. On the other hand, most farmers I know would have no
trouble at all meeting any -reasonable- fitness standard. Or any other reasonable
competence standard.
cheers
Respect? Never heard of it....doesnt exist!
Not just for the firefighter but in general!
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I remember reading some info that came from HQ some time ago, in relation to fitness guidelines....- I think it might have been called Physiological guidelines for fire fighters...maybe?
It had some recommended standards (but not enforcable ones) that brigades could consider.
It was based on functional activities - so if a person could do those activities, they were considered acceptable from a fitness point of view.
I can't remember all of it, but the exercises included getting onto and off a standard 24 or 34 appliance, I think there was something about lifting a full foam container (maybe?) and a few others things I don't remember...
I remember reading through it at the time, and thought it wasn't a bad standard...if a person couldn't do the exercises listed, then they really shouldn't be a fire fighter....!
Pip
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ounds good to me what PIP is saying,we all know the story about the weight lifter who could not pass the Medical for CABA due to his BMI,if you can lift,carry,walk,read,hear and work as a team welcome to the service...
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People need to take this job that we do seriously. Yes its voluntary, but its still and emergency service. Be it SES or CFS.
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People need to take this job that we do seriously. Yes its voluntary, but its still and emergency service. Be it SES or CFS.
I agree numbers but there needs to be a healthy median. As stated before people wont want to join if there is too much involved before they get on the trucks....the CFS doesnt have the appeal that the MFS has.
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SES will be enforcable!
The BMI thing has been considered (for all of our body builders).
It's not just a physical & medical but also a sought of mental ability to cope thing.
All of the comments mentioned above have been voiced!
And it's come about from our involvement in vertical rescue & USAR Cat2 (wonder if CFS Vertical people will have to do it?)
The way its going there won't be a service outside of the Metro area in a few years (yes you can cheer Numbers)!
But if this is a requirement for one volly service why shouldn't CFS be subjected to the same?
As I said I think some sought of minimum standard is required but it all depends how high the bar is being put.
cheers
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I would fully support a fitness standard. Most of the potential volunteers we have expect there to be a test when they approach us, and you may find that the service appears more attractive to to the youth in the community if there is a fitness standard.
I don't think it should be a particularly hard test, but there should be one there. Once people start a small amount of exercise to shape up to a low level of fitness they may discover that it's not much extra work to improve their fitness even more.
Hypothetically: If a 150KG fire fighter goes down in a burning building, and a rescue crew of 70KG fire fighters can't get him out quickly enough, is that the fault of the rescue crew because they weren't strong enough, or the obese guy, because he shouldn't have gone in like that in the first place?
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well you would not have a 150KG firefighter inside in CABA as they would not pass the BMI.......
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well you would not have a 150KG firefighter inside in CABA as they would not pass the BMI.......
Depends how tall they are :P
But that's true - I'll change the scenario slightly. Working at a scrubby and the wind changes direction suddenly putting the crew from the previous scenario in the path of the fire. Our big friend trips and breaks his leg. then what?
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As part of team building in a Brigade/Unit there would be nothing wrong with setting aside a night where everyone attends, and all go for a hike/run etc once or twice a month.Combine it with the other training and skills we do on a training night if you want, but add variety.
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I work with a bloke who is your typical country lad, 130kg of angry farmer. If he goes down in a building I can't drag him out, but by christ am I happy to have him next to me in CABA, he is just 110% muscle.
We can't use the BMI, as that would almost count me out of CFS BA, I'm about a 33, why not a changed Beep test, like others have suggested, plus a functional strength/fitness test. People join, let them know the standards (adjusted for age/sex) and then before they're voted in in 6 months, they have to pass it. It gives people enough prep time.
I know that it won't be popular, but at the same time its about peoples own safety.