SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Camo on April 07, 2007, 01:44:55 PM
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Unsure of the SOP here but i was informed the other day that new members arent to be issued with PPE until their BFF1 course and are not allowed to take part in training until the BFF1 course as well.
Is this an actual SOP or just a stupid rule within our group?
One reason given was they arent covered by insurance until they complete their BFF1 but i would of thought they would be as soon as they sign the membership book.
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as far as i know when thay sign the book its aficial but cant atend jobs till BFF1 is done
:|
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Cam this is just plain wrong..
The way many brigades that I have been involved in do it like this...
Once you decide to recruit a particular person or persons they are required to sign the registration book. From then on they are a CFS member and covered by all the usual OH&S regs and rules, this means that you also have to provide them with the necessary tools and equipment for them to stay safe in the CFS environs.
Once they are signed up the next thing you should be doing is going through the CFS induction process with them, this covers all the OH&S stuff, a bit about the Act / Regs, a bit about who is in charge in your Station / Group / Region etc, any relevant local brigade policies and procedures that you may have, also what training pathways they may wish to pursue etc etc, this normally takes an hour or two of their first night.
Next step should be to either fit them out in PPE or size them up so that gear can be ordered for them. They should be given all the equipment that is needed for training - Turnout gear, boots, helmets, gloves, goggles, dust masks etc etc.
From here on they should start doing training in your brigade, it might be one on one to get them up to speed on what everything does and where it is kept or it might be just as part of your standard training nights, you also need to get them booked on to a BFF1 course within 3 months of them signing the book - this is CFS policy. Continue to train them in-house until they have completed their BFF1, then once they have successfully done that and the brigade officers are happy that the person is capable of performing the duties of an operation firefighter advise them that they can now respond to incidents.
Some brigades issue pagers to recruits before they become operational so they can keep an eye on what is going on in the brigade and training etc, others wait until they have done BFF1 and use it as a reward for now completing all the training. Personally I find issuing pagers before making them operational beneficial, that way the person already understands how they work and what the response messages are like before they suddenly have to start responding to calls in the middle of the night.
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Well the way our group operate is once they sign the book after the police check they get a second hand set of PPE to train with until there BFF1 course then they get a brand new set and a crew bag and all there PPE to start them off with.
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From what i know,new members come along get a police check come back once it is done show letter to admin or captain that there police check is fine and then they have to be issued with gear(ppc/ppe) but can not attend call outs but can take part in training...Now having said that after a meeting the other night the BFF1 looks like it may change again and from the feed back of people(groups/captains) here in the south east it will be a step forward to get members on to appliances early...So watch this space to see if it does take off I hope it does and EUAN has given talks about it around the state and I am sure that it will take off and new membesr will be able to attend call outs and trainig alot fast than what is going on now....
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So essentially my group are being a bunch of filtered filtered again.
Whats new?
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So essentially my group are being a bunch of filtered filtered again.
Whats new?
Maybe you should run for GO?
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The way I understood it is similar - sign book and have police check, then you're covered. I thought you had six months to complete BFF1? Anywho, 3 or 6, either way, you can't respond without BFF1, but I sure as hell would like newbies to be training prior to BFF1 if in theory they can ride as soon as they've passed it! More training the better, and the easier they will find the BFF1 course too.
I think some people at group level just like to throw their weight around, even when they really don't have their facts straight. Or perhaps they have a bit of an axe to grind about volly numbers on the books already....
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I know that in my Brigade we are fortunate to have someone who is able to deliver BFF1 who when we have a new person to the Brigade we are able to start training them from night two after the induction. But the problem that we run into is the PPC and the pager when you got none to spare where do you go when your still waiting a year latter :?
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A year later !! Who on earth is looking after your brigade/group/region, thats terrible, its not that hard to get PPE and a pager. Clearly your requests aren't getting anywhere.
Camo, someone is yanking your chain mate, but yeah, I think you summed it up fairly well in your last post. Just tell em to jump in the ute and stop the appliances, then you won't need members :lol:
Hang on, that happens anyway.....
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So essentially my group are being a bunch of filtered filtered again.
Whats new?
Yeah sounds like they dont do a lot for the retention of members even doing activity /fire reports to justify your existence :evil:
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Maybe you should run for GO?
Long live Camotopia!
no im happy playing the humble firefighter.....Just shits me when people dont do things by the book.
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So essentially my group are being a bunch of filtered filtered again.
Whats new?
Quite simply, it does sound like it mate... How they get away with it I don't know...
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I'm beginning to learn too that I nearly need to know more about SOPs/directives etc than the group officers to avoid situations like Camo's (ie DGO/GO putting their spin on a situation and having it done their way, simply because that's what they want).
New recruits get a pager after BFF1, they need their gear prior to BFF1 and we try and get them to training as soon as their police check comes back. Handing them a pager prior to BFF1 sounds like a good idea.
There is also that provision that an officer can grab any member of the public, in an emergency, and stick them on the truck. "Though it's not meant to be used that way" as a DGO likes to remind me.
Glad to hear BFF1 might be revised & shortened. It seems they do listen!!
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look last Monday (2/4/07) was a good time for all volunteer to come and talk to EUAN and listen to his vision on the new BFF1 it sounds good and those that where there could see that new members would be able to do training and attend call outs under a mentor system while waiting for the police clearance..I wont spill the who story as the EU AN show as I have called it is doing tours and I would encourage all members to attend if and when its in your area...
Littlejohn,if the group wont get the siren fixed why cant the brigade captain arrange for someone to fix it???
Cam,time for change in some groups,but under OHSW all members must have PPE/PPC and they need to have it so as they can do BFF1,if the problem is still there follow that long chain of command and do some thing about it...You could also fill in a OHSW form and lodge that then there Will be a investigation as to why groups are not handing out this gear...It should also be noted that new members are to get new gear and not hand me downs as I have seen this done of late around the state.....We all get the money to provide ppe/ppc and there is not reason why a group is not handing it out....
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Time to merge the Gambier and Port MacDonnell CFS groups and call it the Grant CFS Group. Would encompass the entire council area too then...
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Whats that got to do with the price of eggs? :lol:
As much as Port Mac hates it Mt Gambier try and run there group anyway! :lol:
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New recruits get a pager after BFF1, they need their gear prior to BFF1 and we try and get them to training as soon as their police check comes back. Handing them a pager prior to BFF1 sounds like a good idea.
we give them a pager before BFF1 as: (1) makes them feel part of the team as they get the same info we all do (upcoming events/training etc not just callouts), and (2) they are encouraged to attend the station for callouts and watch and listen to the radio.
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Slightly off-topic, but I think the biggest problem with regard to new recruits is how long it is taking to get police checks done.
My brigade has sent some in for potential recruits and they haven't been received back 3 months after submitting them.
I believe it is the rules that we are not allowed to start training them informally until the police check comes back. I think (could be wrong) that this is because the captain or admin officer must sight the clearance before signing the membership book and without that submitted, the new recruit has no insurance, etc.
How are brigades meant to keep potential recruits interested if they aren't allowed to start doing anything because the red tape is taking far too long.
Don't get me wrong - I agree with the need for police checks to keep the wrong types out, but its just frustrating...
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I know that in my Brigade we are fortunate to have someone who is able to deliver BFF1 who when we have a new person to the Brigade we are able to start training them from night two after the induction.
I've done BFF1 three times (long story involving CFS losing paperwork), have experience providing training to volunteers and have my Certificate IV in Workplace Assessment and Training AND have told CFS that many many times and they never ask me to help. The next time CFS whinge about a lack of trainers I might actually have to slap someone :x We could well be training up our new vollies and get them signed off on a few modules as you do malleefire.
:roll: serenity now.....
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The police check should not take more than 15 days from the day the police get the form,having said that it can take up 2 months which is far too long..with the new BFF1 if it gets of the ground the new member while waiting for the police check to come back can attend training and can attend fire calls after a mentor system...
as for port mac and the mount becoming one group how about port mac/mfs and mount group all become grant group.....
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Wouldnt make any difference Bill the CFS still wouldnt respond Mets to any of their calls..:)
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Haha Haha So true :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Now come on, that would make sense, whats wrong with a 34 with 1 bloke on it, thats more than better than a fully crewed and trained appliance, stop talking sense here, and we may as well drive through the MFS area with our 1 bloke 1 truck and not call them, makes more sense !!
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The police check should not take more than 15 days from the day the police get the form,having said that it can take up 2 months which is far too long..with the new BFF1 if it gets of the ground the new member while waiting for the police check to come back can attend training and can attend fire calls after a mentor system...
as for port mac and the mount becoming one group how about port mac/mfs and mount group all become grant group.....
Well we had to wait 12 months for one person to get his police check to come back because he was in the Army for a while around 15 years and the normal police had to see what the military police had to say about him. I thought you could not even do BFF1 with out the police check. Nor according to the Chief Standing Orders are you allowed to get on the truck for callouts.
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till the brigade captain or admin officer see the police check the new members is not allowed to do anything and if you have to wait that long then you will lose him/her as a member. I like some aspects of what the boss has in mind and it sure does look good on paper.At this stage its only a discussion paper forgroups/brigades to look at and then provide feed back to the boss.
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You get the check back quicker if you chuck a yellow 50 in the envelope.lol.