SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Firey9119 on June 28, 2006, 04:23:17 PM
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i know this topic is been cover all over but just a question..
how long has it taken for people to get there order of PBI gold.
by station/group was fitted for it back in march and still no sign of it. :?
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Our guys waited about 2 months,follow it up may have got lost or its sitting in the region office...
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Hi there
We were measure up for PBI in late March - but still waiting.
Wayne
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We were measure up back then sometime and have only seen three sets turn up.
Apparently there is 3 despatch runs or something. Its on the slow boat from china
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There is a run of gear being made in Australia now......
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So much for the end of June :-)
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had my set for CFS a few months ago..
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Just because you were measured up for it was no guarentee that you were going to get it, the only reason everybody was measured was
1. So that your information could be placed on a central database.
2. So that when your current set of level 3 ppe with liner expired that you would then become applicable to get a set of PBI Gold.
The inital standard said that PBI Gold was to be used where BA was to be worn mainly at structure fires for use in offensive attacks.
The budget allocation set aside for the purchase of PBI Gold was no where near enough to supply every BA operator in the State.
When the liner is removed from PBI Gold it does not meet the cuurent standard for wildfire protection, where as when you remove your liner from a level 3 Nomex jacket it does meet the stated requirements for wildfire protection.
Plus why would brigades and groups in thier right mind purchase sets of PBI Gold in excess on $1000 a set while you still have a workable set of Level 3 Nomex?????
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interesting reply above. we were told that evey BA operator was to be fitted out with PBI with allsets funde by the state gov. so this was a crock of scheiße or what then?
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interesting fact: the funds allocated by the state govt. had already been set aside for the initial purchase of PBI Gold, A small election campaign promise that had already been promised prior.
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Good one "Assistant" you are looking at the big picture aren't you.
Facts about PBI:
1. That's right you go on a database, and when you are required to get the gear you can. e,g, when your Level 3 is due for replacement or if you do not have Level 3 PPE.
2. Why would you buy PBI gold when you have Nomex which meets the standard if you already have. Smart brigades,groups and reigon will see that and will work accordingly. And not just buy it cos other services, brigades, groups and regions have it.
3. PBI Gold is not as user friendly as Level 3 Nomex.
4. "The Assistant" is correct if you calculate how many CABA operators are in the service, and how many require it their would not be enough money for every caba operator.
This is what I understand and my interpretation about PBI Gold from media relases, people involved in the contract of purchase of PBI Gold, and from professional personnel from the service which would know.
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I think that you will find that the budget allocation was indeed enough to outfit all BA operators in PBI there are not as many operators as you think.
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there was about 1400 or there abouts at last count, not a real lot when it comes down to it. About 1.5 mill allocated so that just about works out @ $1000 per set?
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give you an example why my figures are close so far this year the CABA project has trained approx 61 new operators
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Have you ever worn PBI Assistant or LtDan ??
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it sure sounds as though they have...
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I'm wondering what the "expiration date" on the old Nomex is. My hand me down set, thats full of holes loose stitching is approaching the 8 year mark. Ive heard talk of the lifetime being only 5. Makes it hard being caught out with breaking Nomex, when you can't buy lvl3 standard Nomex anymore, yet we aren't seeing the PBI.
I think ill stitch a hessian bag liner into some old Khaki Overalls for the time being...
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Nomex has a life in the field of 5 years,hand me downs no way that is wrong you should have new gear not hand me downs that is a OHSW problem....
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I was under the impression the Level 3 Nomex no longer meets the standard for Structural fire fighting... hence the change to PBI???
If my above statement is correct, then it shows that those groups that have purchased it have a strong commitment to protecting thier firefighters. (would it not?)
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Well anyone who says " Why would you want PBI if you have a set of L3 nomex" clearly either has no idea as to the benifits of PBI, or has never worn / done any research on PBI and how it outdoes Nomex on many, many levels when it comes to structural fire fighting...
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I was under the impression the Level 3 Nomex no longer meets the standard for Structural fire fighting... hence the change to PBI???
It's not that it doesn't meet the standard, it's that it just hasn't been tested against the standard.
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Nomex has a life in the field of 5 years,hand me downs no way that is wrong you should have new gear not hand me downs that is a OHSW problem....
Hmm, as someone who only joined in the rather recent past, having to buy my own boots(eg: not having brigade supplied boots for over a year) and having hand me down everything except gloves, you make an interesting point.
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Nomex only has a field life of 5 years if worn every day during those five years, and I hope as a volunteer firey you are not wearing yours everyday.
In answer to the question have I worn PBI Gold on numerous occasions, but no I don't have a set yet because my level 3 nomex is still in good condition and I see no need to waste money buying PBI Gold until my Nomex wears out.
In relation to OHSW in regards to hand me downs you can easily wash PPE which can be handed down to other people to use, but boots and gloves should be thrown away or taken by the person when they leave.
I am fully aware of the benefits of PBI Gold I am not an idiot, what I meant and I thought it was pretty eay to understand was why would your brigade or group buy you a set of PBI Gold when you have a workable set of NOMEX.
$1000 a set was a bit an approximation it actually costs more than that per set.
Strikeathird I think you are reading more into this than was actually intended and I don't see you offering up any answers to peoples questions.
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I was under the impression the Level 3 Nomex no longer meets the standard for Structural fire fighting... hence the change to PBI???
It's not that it doesn't meet the standard, it's that it just hasn't been tested against the standard.
Interesting.... Would be interested to hear if others have been told the same as yourself Mengcfs. Seems strange that something so popular wouldnt be tested againt the new standards.
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My understanding was that the nomex material meets the standard but the construction for the garmet and liners do not.
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Interesting.... Would be interested to hear if others have been told the same as yourself Mengcfs. Seems strange that something so popular wouldnt be tested againt the new standards.
Same old story i suppose....Why would we test the old stuff and stick with it when someone brings something out supposedly bigger and better :|
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BIGGER AND BETTER
the age old argument I think its more
THEY HAVE IT I WANT IT, IF THEY HAVE IT IT HAS TO BE GOOD!
PBI is good don't get me wrong it was just the way that the honchos have gone about implementing it
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Load of crap if you ask me,why is it that other fire service's are still issuing nomex and in two cases PBI gold has been removed from a fire service store's list....It is also funny that you can still buy level 3 nomex and where it.....
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Our guys waited about 2 months,follow it up may have got lost or its sitting in the region office...
you want to know where the the PBI is? sitting in huge bags at STC, thats where. There must be in excess of 50-60 sets up there i reckon. it is probably all for training though.
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hmmm yer got sized up several months ago, and havent heard a peep since...
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The bags of PBI Gold up at STC are no longer in bags because they are the new CFS Training sets for CABA and CFB, I think someone would notice people walking around the fire ground with CFS Training written on the back
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Load of crap if you ask me,why is it that other fire service's are still issuing nomex and in two cases PBI gold has been removed from a fire service store's list....It is also funny that you can still buy level 3 nomex and where it.....
Because for once the SA Fire services have lead the way and not followed!
We complain about a conservative state and city but when we do something properly and progressive we cut them off at the knees.
What do we want conservative or progressive or are neither good enough :roll:
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"Reality Check Friends :?"
Answer, Yes I do have a set of PBI Gold and do wear it.
And, Yes I do have a Level 3 Nomex kit aswell!!
No-one is saying PBI Gold is filtered on contrary it is very good but what I was trying to point out was that you did not have to get it straight away if you have Level 3 Nomex it would be still ok and the reasons why. (I was trying to point out cos it's new does not mean you need it.)(We don't all get new fire-trucks when new one's are built every year).
If I am not mistaken and very rarely I am not the cost of PBI Gold is approx $1400.00 if you want to show me evidence it is not well go for it.
You can buy Level 3 Nomex, but you won't be able to buy it out of central funding, so that's up to you. But if you alrerady have the Pants & Jacket L2 from central funding how hard would it be to get a liner. (Think about it, I am not going to give you the answer.)
Finishing, it seems that too many people want to argue or contradict people's thoughts and idea's, and from what I have read today you have all dissapointed me. Talk about topics you know have knowledge and experience on before you start talking about stuff you think you know about it.
Mod Note :- language gentlemen.
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So this is where we are;
We all think PBI is good and will take it when it comes (or did take it for those who have it) but it would be ok if NOMEX stayed.
Ok, lets have more productive chats here, like we have been..........and stop throwing sand in the sandpit :-D
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here here :roll: :-D
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Bugger my sand pit is full :cry:
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Finishing, it seems that too many people want to argue or contradict people's thoughts and idea's, and from what I have read today you have all dissapointed me. Talk about topics you know have knowledge and experience on before you start talking about stuff you think you know about it.
aaaah funny post
(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc7.jpg)
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Now about those new BA sets the MFS are in the process of getting...
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If I am not mistaken and very rarely I am not the cost of PBI Gold is approx $1400.00 if you want to show me evidence it is not well go for it.
You can buy Level 3 Nomex, but you won't be able to buy it out of central funding, so that's up to you. But if you alrerady have the Pants & Jacket L2 from central funding how hard would it be to get a liner. (Think about it, I am not going to give you the answer.)
Finishing, it seems that too many people want to argue or contradict people's thoughts and idea's, and from what I have read today you have all dissapointed me. Talk about topics you know have knowledge and experience on before you start talking about stuff you think you know about it.
Well.. You are right about the cost, yet ask for people to prove you wrong.. Then are disapointed by people being contradicting...
Any way..
My personal view was - I had fought structural fires in both PBI and Nomex, and would never return back to nomex...(for structural fire fighting).. I have been traind in CFB, which I believe they use Lion gear for? .. and wouldnt go in those cells with Nomex on... Now... Could CFB cell temps be reproduced out on a job?? With the right conditions, of course... Yet you would still go in in L3 Nomex cause it was still in good condition? Even though knowing the benifits of Pbi Gold...
My argument was nothing to do with the politics involved in the purchasing, and the hype up about it, and i apologise if thats what it looked like.. I simply wanted to put forward that just cause what you have, might be fine, if there is something better, wich will PROTECT you to a higher degree, why not get it??
It's all about going home at the end of the day right??
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Wear your PBI to all jobs, would you mob start acting like fire fighters instead of fighting like girls....
If your brigade hasn't got it start asking some questions and push the point instead of sitting back crying....
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aggressiveird:
I agree does feel more comfortable and gives better radioant heat protection in an agressive fire attack e.g. CFB. And from previous experience in wearing L3 Nomex and PBI Gold in the burn cells that point does stand. But wearing L3 Nomex in the cells was ok, and was bearable and I did not think my life was threatend at any time.
But the question strikeathird: If you are attacking a fire in "real life" at the same confined temperatures would you be doing it??. I don't know?? Would depend on the situation and the job.
Can remember from previous domestics I have attended and offensively attacked the fire inside the premises it did not seem to get as hot as it does in the "burn cells".
But would always depend on the job, the risks, and the logistical back up you have or on the way to the incident.
Of course, if your level 3 was worn out why wouldn't you get PBI Gold. But even so their is still political questions about it e.g. when or not to wear PBI Gold, and how to make that decision from a simple pager message. And this will a debate for a very long time.
We always improve and we have scene dramatic improvement in the last ten years, for example the phrase "out with the old and in with the new", sometimes this phrase is not always the best suitable to everything.
We would all agree that equipment e.g. appliances have improved from research and fire-fighters comments. And the same applies to PPE, look at the change in boots, look at the change at reflective clothing, look at the change of safety eyewear etc etc etc.
I quote from a famous footballer "We have eyes in the front of our head for a reason "to look forward and not back."
One day "Toast" we will all be the same and then you won't have to worry about it anymore.
:-)
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apoologies people: the above reply is for "strikeathird" not "aggressiveird"
"what the"
:? :-)
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Are you being a smart a r s e .
I did have the slightest bit of respect for you before... But you seem to be good at making a dik of yourself.
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:?why :?
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no :?
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i think you have not understtod what I have said or typed. I thought I was being positive not negative. :|
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aggressiveird..
Bit hard to be a typo... but if you say so...
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true it was a typo :lol:
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good thread! but play nice and for the last time do not circumvent the language filter - I will act if you force my hand.
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If i remember correctly the grant from the government was for $2 Million.
PBI for all BA Operators and the rest was being spent on New Proban Uniforms.
something like 1500 PBI and 500 Proban.
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http://www.safirefighter.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=53&topic=210.msg4845#msg4845
Have a look here..
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That is correct camo,and if that is the case then way are some groups still waiting for gear they ordered back in March 2006...for PBI and nomex level 1
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dont worry we are still waiting here in region one as well... so dont feel hard done by out there...
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Yes my region one brother in law said they had all been fitted some months ago and still no sign of the gear???
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mmm been waiting just under three months now, hopefully it should be here soon, they told us at the time it would be delivered around the end of jubne... so fingers crossed.
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I may get my rear end kicked for this,but is it really worth while spending money on PBI gold for the training centres that are in the country that dont get used alot.
If its the way to go then fine but If a centre only gets used a few times a year and the gear just sits there is it worth the cost or should they just have PBI gold for STC and nomex level 3 for all other T/C..... MY VIEW ONLY>>>>
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mmm been waiting just under three months now, hopefully it should be here soon, they told us at the time it would be delivered around the end of jubne... so fingers crossed.
Last time we asked we were told early july. Not sure if thats this year or next. :-D
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^^ d'oh
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"firefrog"
don't trust what you read!!!
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I would say that due to the over ordering of PBI gold that you will still be waiting for it to arrive via horse and cart...