SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Firey9119 on August 04, 2006, 05:58:13 PM
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before you all start i know pbi has been bashed to hell
all i am wondering is stations that have got PBI gold how many of them have had "Training" in its use??
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what do you mean by training in its use??
as in pants first then boots?
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other than using it at Brukunga for CFB, none at all...
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what do you mean by training in its use??
as in pants first then boots?
So thats what Ive been doing wrong! :-o
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You mean the heat management issues?
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not to sure what the deal is but, a message has been pass on to me not to make plans for a night this week cos it has been stated that it is a training night for pbi gold.. well yet you all know what the its all about when i find out.
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Probably things like:
- Not bunkering it
- Not prolonging it to excessive UV light
- Having it cleaned properly
- How to and how not to identify if certain removable liners have/have not been removed..
- How to remove and re-insert such liners.
- When it should and should not be worn.
- What its thermal and moisture capabilities and protection levels are.
List goes on.. :)
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haha, not bunkering it... haha
They're called bunker pants for a reason :P
(Yes, I know you're not meantto. but hey, the rest of the world does...)
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hmnmm well i guess they're your legs... doesnt affect me if they burn off at random...
:-D
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I Came accross this link http://www.janesville.bz/pdf/USAUserGuide.pdf (http://www.janesville.bz/pdf/USAUserGuide.pdf)
It is the user guide for one of Lion Apparels Structure garments. It seems like a pretty standard thing for all their Turnout gear.
There is plenty of info on the Lion Site... just have a browse and come back and discuss some the points "straight from the horses mouth"
http://www.lionpsg.bz/ (http://www.lionpsg.bz/)
Also interesting to note: The Website states that NO firefighting material should be subject to any sunlight... Didnt find anything about not bunkering the gear though.
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I'm glad no-one has read the user manual that came with the garments :roll:
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I read it... Don't generalise! :P
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Still looking for the flashhoods thay were supposed to accompany according to documentation getting around the place?
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My brigade got the flash hoods delivered with the PBI Gold...
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Here's one, at our AGM the other night we copped a warning from our GO that PBI Gold shouldn't be kept in peoples private vehicles because if they are stolen the CFS will hold the person issued with the gear liable and make them pay for the replacment of it. Aparently 3 pairs have already been nicked.
But good luck to them if it's true it would be like getting blood from a stone.
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who the heck would want something like other than people in the CFS, watch out guys I think it might be people from the MFS stealing them. :evil: :mrgreen: jj
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who the heck would want something like other than people in the CFS, watch out guys I think it might be people from the MFS stealing them. :evil: :mrgreen: jj
Ahh yes, the MFS with their pink, oh sorry, ORANGE striping...
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Just look on ebay they may sell it there,but with all the only going problems with PBI gold and that other states are not using it may be CFS should stop and look before they buy any more....
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Ongoing problems? Why has it been so widely adopted then?
Dare I suggest that the rest of Aus is maybe not a good comparison?
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I think that it is way better than the old yellow stuff, there is more good points than bad ones, plus it keeps you nice and warm in winter. :-D
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Here's one, at our AGM the other night we copped a warning from our GO that PBI Gold shouldn't be kept in peoples private vehicles because if they are stolen the CFS will hold the person issued with the gear liable and make them pay for the replacment of it. Aparently 3 pairs have already been nicked.
Should we really be keeping PBI in our cars anyway, I'm guessing the main reason people are taking it home is to respond to incidents direct, this is something I am against anyway but with the known issues of sunlight severely decreasing the life of these garments why are we allowing this to occur.
I know that there will be times when you are heading out to training etc when the gear should go home but I don't really see that people should be keeping this gear in the car. MFS have had to redesign all of their stations to store the gear out of direct sunlight, maybe we should take note.
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Just look on ebay they may sell it there,but with all the only going problems with PBI gold and that other states are not using it may be CFS should stop and look before they buy any more....
CFS are for once being leaders in an area!
Other state services are trying very hard to have it adopted! Unions are behind it 100% but some services/govt's are resisting.
Good on SAFECOM and the state fire services for supplying the worlds best protection to it's valauble emergency response agencies!!!!!!!!
The sunlight issue is a bit of an over reaction! Any garment that has synthetic fibres is subject to damage when exposed to sunlight and this includes NOMEX. Yes be careful and don't leave it out in the sun but it's not that big of a deal...Normal precautions and well considered storage is fine.
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What happens to them in UV light?? :?, do they fade :lol:
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I would not say the union is behind it 100% as it was the union in Vic that pulled out of the trial after reports of problems in QLD/NSW from a report done by union members in those state.
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I think you would find that even the older Nomex gear was just as subseptable to harm from UV, but since Lion Apparel are guaranteeing performance of the new PBI gear, they are really trying to make sure the gear is looked after EXACTLY how they want.
When we got our gear, they did look into UV cutout on the stations perspex and glass windows, to ensure minimal exposure.
As for bunking overpants, we still do to certain degree, but they are held up higher on the wall by a hook.
Personally, I think we are all lucky to have such good PPE gear, because Fire Services in other states are still way behind!
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Some people may carry their gear in their vehicles because they work 10kms or so from the station and if a BA job goes down they can head straight to the scene and meet up with the appliance(s). ( Unfortunatly some of us brigades don't have huge amounts of BA operators so every single one counts).
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Someone might want to steal it so that they could could imitate being a firey to carry out criminal acts. Fireys are one of the most trusted profesions in oz so they say.
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or cos there group wont let them have it :wink:
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Interesting Page seen this evening
1909195 21:24:50 14-08-06 FOR BRIGADE INFO, PBI GOLD IS NOT TO BE WORN TO ANY FIRE CALL UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.LT3
This was from the Salisbury Brigade.....anyone care to share?
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Maybe they have to do a weekend training course first... :lol:
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before i answer thie question on the page how did you know it was from Salisbury??????
Apparently the powers that be need a week to sort out some admin stuff or something.
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I have this like psychic power or something
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Recognise the pager No. 9195 is the last 4 digits of Salisbury:-D
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Sailsbury are 9119.
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1909195 is the pager capcode for Salisbury_Info (nothing to do with appliance numbers)
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Is there a list of pager capcodes :? in particular CFS.
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Last I Heard Was That PBI Shouldn't Have Been Issued As They Have Still Not Worked Out The Cleaning Process. This Came From Group Who Were Advised By SHQ. I Believe There Are Only 2 Groups That Have Not Given Out PBI.
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There are cleaning instructions in the booklet that comes with the gear, and SAMFS have been cleaning theirs since they got it last year.... I doubt cleaning is the issue here...
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Well, August is here, well past the deadline for distribution and we still haven't seen ours :cry:
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Latest policy on PBI Gold for cleaning.....must be bagged up with your name on it and station and sent to your Regional Office at brigades expense and then sent on to Lion for cleaning...however they did say you can clean them in a front loading washing machine.Regional offices will supposedly have loan gear(10 sets)of NOMEX GEAR to swap until you get yours back.(Lead time about 3 weeks)Gee wouldnt want a sudden influx of them coming in would you..brigades might get caught short if they get a structure job :roll:
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What happened to Lion Apparel providing a spare set of PBI Gold in your size? And honestly, why does it take 3 WEEKS to get cleaned? that's terrible.. :(
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Hmm, send it away from three weeks, or clean it at home in an afternoon....
I know what I'm doing!
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Last I Heard Was That PBI Shouldn't Have Been Issued As They Have Still Not Worked Out The Cleaning Process. This Came From Group Who Were Advised By SHQ. I Believe There Are Only 2 Groups That Have Not Given Out PBI.
Cyber - you need to get your G.O. to ring Amanda at Region One and speak to her, there is a process in place which is working well for cleaning the gear.
I know that your G.O. likes to be in control of EVERYTHING in that group but he has to let go a bit, why risk someone getting injured wearing non Australian Standard approved PPE when you've got the stuff sitting in a store room in a station.
Regional offices will supposedly have loan gear(10 sets)of NOMEX GEAR to swap until you get yours back.(Lead time about 3 weeks)
Why would Region be giving you Nomex, most people should still have Nomex sitting on their hook anyway to wear to grassies. We found that if you want the stuff cleaned quickly drop it off at Lion yourself, we picked it up three days later all ready to go.
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Received some info last night
All PBI is scheduled to be delivered no later then the end of september and will be accompanied by a FLASH HOOD!!!
And those that didnt receive flash hoods before will receive them in this time period as well.
Camo
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my brigade got the last of theirs now and a flsah hood was definetely included so it is all happening.
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Dont think it should come out of brigade or group funds to sned the gear away for cleaning not our fault that it has to go all the way back to the city....via hong kong
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Yep....and there are still brigades out there who still have Proban overalls one and two piece style,but also brigades who dont even have a BA set on the appliance.How can we serve our communities if we cant even get the gear to do the job :?
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I dont wear CABA,so is PBI GOLD the answer to our needs or have we been pushed into buying it???I think there was not much planning into how to do the cleaning of it and where and how it gets from point x to point a for cleaning and that there was no planning in spare gear while you wait 3 weeks for it to come back.
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I know that your G.O. likes to be in control of EVERYTHING in that group but he has to let go a bit, why risk someone getting injured wearing non Australian Standard approved PPE when you've got the stuff sitting in a store room in a station.
Well I Guess You Know Where I Am From. I Have Already Had 2x Structure Fires In Nothing But Proban Cause Thats All I Have. Nothing Major But We Have Been Told That We Can't Have Nomex, But Can't Have Our PBI Yet Either.
I Will Just Keep Fighting The Fires & Wait And See What Happens. Overall I Am Not That Concerned Cause If I Think Something Is Risky Enough That I Need The New PBI I Won't Put Myself In That Suitation.
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Overall I Am Not That Concerned Cause If I Think Something Is Risky Enough That I Need The New PBI I Won't Put Myself In That Suitation.
You already have, twice!
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PBI was an election promise better ask the man who Rann for cover :-D
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If you can;t get the PBI gold get the NOMEX you can still buy it and there is still groups that do,its better than proban....
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Overall I Am Not That Concerned Cause If I Think Something Is Risky Enough That I Need The New PBI I Won't Put Myself In That Suitation.
You already have, twice!
Agreed. ^
-And Blinky, if your not CABA then no, you do not need the gear, as you should not be fighting an internal attack of a structure fire. - However, the gear will far out do proban and nomex even for thermal heat capabilities which you would be exposed to on the out side of a fully involved structure fire.
I believe it is currently the best gear out there, finally a volunteer agency is leading the way for all other volunteer agencies in the country with this turnout gear ! Heck, Paid fulltime services wouldn't buy it if it wasn't up there with the current best !
However, not being BA, I don't think you would have bucklies chance getting it.
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how funny is this , went to a structure fire the other day in the new pbi gold, salisbury mfs were busy so we got Elizabeth and golden grove , and the comments from these guys about how WE ( being cfs) are just trying to look more like mfs with pbi gold!, so i dont give to S**ts what or who i look like as long as i go home to my family at the end of the job.
this is not the view of all mfs i know, but once again its a small few that stuff it up.
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you sure they werent just joking around?
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Is there a problem with us wanting to look like SAMFS? :?
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Is there a problem with us wanting to look like SAMFS? :?
They're probably just shitty cause they got the pink stripes
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Is there a problem with us wanting to look like SAMFS? :?
They're probably just shitty cause they got the pink stripes
LMAO....
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Just to sound like a complete idiot what does LMAO stand for??
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Look here: LMAO (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=define%3A+LMAO) ;)
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They are ORANGE actually.
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They are ORANGE actually.
Oh for sure 'Fluro Orange'
Still, looks pink.
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They are ORANGE actually.
Poor Ath getting ganged up on!
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probably thinking we are going to steal their jobs one day,obviously not a team player :-D
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Look here: LMAO (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=define%3A+LMAO) ;)
Thought it would be something blatantly obvious :-)
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Ease of Care: PBI blend garments can be home laundered; dry cleaning is not necessary.
Quoted Straight From The PBI Gold Site.
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Lion don't dry clean them anyway, they just have big washing machines... The advantage with Lion being that they fully inspect the suit as well as washing it...
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Lion don't dry clean them anyway, they just have big washing machines... The advantage with Lion being that they fully inspect the suit as well as washing it...
But I Think Us The Wearers Should Have A Good Idea If Anything Is Wrong With Them, We Should Be Checking Our Gear Reg To Make Sure Its In Working Order.
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Lion don't dry clean them anyway, they just have big washing machines... The advantage with Lion being that they fully inspect the suit as well as washing it...
But I Think Us The Wearers Should Have A Good Idea If Anything Is Wrong With Them, We Should Be Checking Our Gear Reg To Make Sure Its In Working Order.
BINGO......this man WINS :-D
Couldnt have put it better myself :wink:
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Yes the wearer should know if anything is wrong but Lion inspect and repair any tiny problems before they get worse and certify the garment fit for use. Sounds like the best option to me!
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There are only 2 things I dont like about the Lion gear.
1-You get pretty toasty in no time when its a warm day.
2-No fly on the pants.lol. The nomex was great when you needed to go you just ripped the velcro open. With the PBI you pretty much have to take the whole filtered lot off to relieve yourself. But I guess its a necesary evil when the gear has to be Oz standard and resistant to flashover etc.
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You must be wearing the SAMFS build of pants the SACFS build has a fly :-D
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Maybe the CFS gear is mark 2 design. Apparently they have moved the portable radio tabs and holder on the jacket.
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Here's one, at our AGM the other night we copped a warning from our GO that PBI Gold shouldn't be kept in peoples private vehicles because if they are stolen the CFS will hold the person issued with the gear liable and make them pay for the replacment of it. Aparently 3 pairs have already been nicked.
Should we really be keeping PBI in our cars anyway, I'm guessing the main reason people are taking it home is to respond to incidents direct, this is something I am against anyway but with the known issues of sunlight severely decreasing the life of these garments why are we allowing this to occur.
I know that there will be times when you are heading out to training etc when the gear should go home but I don't really see that people should be keeping this gear in the car. MFS have had to redesign all of their stations to store the gear out of direct sunlight, maybe we should take note.
Except of course brigades that have sheds so small we cant even keep a pair of boots in it - have to walk sideways past the vehilces, so we must bring our gear with us for avery call out. Also, I respond to 3 brigades, so go straight from work or home to either my own or their station, so no time to go to my station, and then to another - time, time, time!!!
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three brigades......... your a bit too keen. :wink:
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Nothing wrong with wanting to help your communities. Its a pity there isnt more dedicated people out there like MR T!
Well Done Mate
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That is a great way to get day time crew. If you work near a brigade that has day shortages and don't live there respond to them.
It does however create more PBI gold problems
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If we start to follow AFAC then PBI gold will be out as most other fire services are now useing Nomex how ever Tassie are doing a trial of new PPC/PPE for the next 12 months and one of the products is PBI GOLD that was given to them by the SAMFS...
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If we start to follow AFAC then PBI gold will be out as most other fire services are now useing Nomex how ever Tassie are doing a trial of new PPC/PPE for the next 12 months and one of the products is PBI GOLD that was given to them by the SAMFS...
Are you suggesting that PBI does not meet the standards? We would lose our brand new state of the art PPE in favour of... nomex? (What we've just gotten rid of)
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PBI is unquestionably a better fabric than Nomex! It has far superior qualities in regards to flame resistance and maintaining integrity when exposed to flame.
That being said Nomex is still widely used and very good.
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three brigades......... your a bit too keen. :wink:
Is it possible to be 'too keen'?? - I am in a non BA brigade, and respond with 2 BA brgades as they have issues getting day time crew and I can leave work any time. I train with alternatye brigades so they can get used to an 'outsider' and they all appreciate having an extra BA available.
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Just remember... you/your life need to be taken care of first..... :)
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Just remember... you/your life need to be taken care of first..... :)
??? - surely that is a given
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You'll be surprised Mr T. Quite a few people have lost jobs over the years because of CFS/SES.... doesnt hurt to be reminded.
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You'll be surprised Mr T. Quite a few people have lost jobs over the years because of CFS/SES.... doesnt hurt to be reminded.
Oh - I see your point.
However, I own this business - I'm not likely to sack myself. I have 68 ppl working here so can easily get away.
What you say is valid though
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However, I own this business - I'm not likely to sack myself.
Cant argue with that! lol :-)
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If only employers could be more understanding.
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three brigades......... your a bit too keen. :wink:
Is it possible to be 'too keen'?? - I am in a non BA brigade, and respond with 2 BA brgades as they have issues getting day time crew and I can leave work any time. I train with alternatye brigades so they can get used to an 'outsider' and they all appreciate having an extra BA available.
Nice effort mate! Don't think its possible to be " Too Keen" unless you're going into symptoms of physical withdrawl when calls are sparse.
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three brigades......... your a bit too keen. :wink:
Is it possible to be 'too keen'?? - I am in a non BA brigade, and respond with 2 BA brgades as they have issues getting day time crew and I can leave work any time. I train with alternatye brigades so they can get used to an 'outsider' and they all appreciate having an extra BA available.
Nice effort mate! Don't think its possible to be " Too Keen" unless you're going into symptoms of physical withdrawl when calls are sparse.
by brigade only gets 15/20 a year, other 2 brigades get 30/40 and 70/80, so not overly busy in the scheme of things (especially when you include dual response). quite odd when the pager goes off twice or even 3 times for reponse though - with identical messages
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at least most of you have PBI gold many of us don't have the gear i was recently at a CFB course to find out that thirteen of the twenty trainees have even been issued PBI an i have had BA for 18 months now. whats the point in training Ba opperators if there is not the correct PPE for them to wear. :? :?
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You're not alone... I have about half of my BA Operators without PBI Gold...the last one to do a BA Course around 4 weeks ago was not even measured up for the gear!!
The members are also new to the brigade, so they don't have Nomex either....so technically they can't be used for any sort of structure fire..
And those without PBI Gold are much smaller in stature than those who currently have PBI Gold, so they can't even pinch the PBI Gold from other people who may not be present for that type of call!! (One guy is 6 foot 6 tall, and slim.. the 5 foot 3 tall person is just not going safely be able to wear his gear..!)
The reasons (excuses?) given is that the company is having trouble sourcing the material from overseas..... and that they don't have a number of sizes in stock, and hence some people haven't got their gear yet.....
One of my guys has only been waiting about 7 months.. it sounds like many others have been waiting much longer than that....
The reasons / excuses being given are starting to wear very thin..
Pip
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Its a shame that a lot of the companies that win government contracts to supply/build stuff for government departments screw up. There seems to be the mentality that if they stuff it up, it doesnt matter they have the contract anyway... This seems to be happenning again and again. Especially with clothing supply.
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how do you know it's the companies fault? Could the fault lie with CFS/safecom systems? Seems more likely to me based on my experience with both organisations.
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We are experiencing the same problems getting the stuff since the intial roll-out. All we get is "its coming". Tell you one thing though its better to wear once its been washed, it takes the stiffness out of it!
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Well there were other companies that used to supply CFS clothing that had trouble keeping up too. I am also talking about companies that sham up building projects too and take many attempts at doing the job properly.
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Doesnt help when the gear is made in China!
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I have spoken to a number of brigade's who have the pbi gear all say its nice and warm and in many cases too filtered warm to wear and you better start drinking before you get to the job.also the gear is bulky and hard to wear in,also not sure if its true but pbi gold may not be on our stock order much more could be getting replaced.....
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Doesnt help when the gear is made in China!
The material may be made in China, but as I understand it, the cutting / sewing together stuff is done here...
We have been told various times that the hold up is in getting the material from wherever it comes from, to the Company putting the gear together.... don't know how much truth is in that, but that was one of the reasons given as to the holdup in getting the PBI Gold out to those who ordered it..
I wonder if the MFS has similar delays..?
Pip
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I have spoken to a number of brigade's who have the pbi gear all say its nice and warm and in many cases too filtered warm to wear and you better start drinking before you get to the job.also the gear is bulky and hard to wear in,also not sure if its true but pbi gold may not be on our stock order much more could be getting replaced.....
Who told you that .. ?? ..??
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The material may be made in China, but as I understand it, the cutting / sewing together stuff is done here...
I wonder if the MFS has similar delays..?
Pip
Im getting absent minded in my old age but i think the last time i looked it my pbi had a made in china tag or something...will look next time im there.
Are you implying the MFS have things better then CFS? That they dont have to wait as long? Surely Not. The 2 Fire Services in SA are very much equal. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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To clear things up Lion Apparel manufacture turnout clothing in several countries, Germany, China, Australia etc..
Elliots Australia have the contract to make Lion Apparel gear in oz. Whenever a new manufacturer comes online Lion send their specialists to the plant to ensure they are trained and up to the task.
So although there is china made gear in service, you may also see Australian made gear.
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I have spoken to a number of brigade's who have the pbi gear all say its nice and warm and in many cases too filtered warm to wear and you better start drinking before you get to the job.also the gear is bulky and hard to wear in,also not sure if its true but pbi gold may not be on our stock order much more could be getting replaced.....
Yeah who told you that, I doubt it, and I have worn it almost non stop for 2 years at many going jobs and found it a lot better to wear than the Nomex, only thing that lets the CFS side of things down is the boots, have to make sure you pull the old explorers up to give that little bit more protection in case of ride up.
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Yeah who told you that, I doubt it, and I have worn it almost non stop for 2 years at many going jobs and found it a lot better to wear than the Nomex, only thing that lets the CFS side of things down is the boots, have to make sure you pull the old explorers up to give that little bit more protection in case of ride up.
Here's another vote for PBI gold. No one in my brigade has had over-heating troubles, and I find it extremely comfortable and easy to work in. Perhaps the people you spoke to took it to a grass fire? :|
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No one in my brigade has either...they tell me it is great stuff to wear when the temperature outside is less than 9 degrees !!! :evil:
Pip
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According to BA wearers in our group it's definatly to hot to wear at a house fire in 40 deg.(outside temp) see house fire Williamstown in Feb, I'm sure Wilma knows the one. but then anything would be!
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Anything is hot to wear at a house fire.. House fires alone can get to temperatures of around 700 degrees.. The garments are for our protection, I think some people need to remember what job they are doing.. As the old saying went.. " If you cant stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen " ...
:-)
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only thing that lets the CFS side of things down is the boots, have to make sure you pull the old explorers up to give that little bit more protection in case of ride up.
Get the new stye boots, i thought your brigade would be up on these things!
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Why can't SACFS use Stewart and Heaton... surely if the company can't get it out in four weeks something is wrong.... very filtered up wrong :x
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Stewart & Heaton are a uniform supplier, not a manufacturer.
Hence they have to reply upon the manufacturer to produce or supply uniform items. How quickly they can supply uniform items will depend upon the manufacturer, and how many much stock Stewart & Heaton want to hold at any given time...
I obtain my work uniform from Stewart & Heaton...still waiting for some bits after 3 months... the hold up being the manufacturer
Pip
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There are lots of back orders as a number of manufactures are facing a shortage of items and material at the moment,NOMEX wildfire gear well there is very little of it around at the moment.....
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PBI Gold is the best gear we have ever had, yes it can be hot to wear on occasions. if this is the case at every oppurtunity take off the jacket or at least open it up.
It should also be a size bigger than what you would normally think to wear, this allows for air flow. help with heat build up.
PBI also has a limited vapour barrier, Nomex does not. some HAZMAT protection.
As to wearing it, it ain't that hard, use the thumb loops, keeps the sleeves down, ensure the neck nap is up and velco attached. if you got the right size then the legs shouldn't be a problem.
if you get too hot in a structure fire, maybe you have added too much water (steam logged your gear) or is the fire beyond internal attack.
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PBI Gold is the best gear we have ever had, yes it can be hot to wear on occasions. if this is the case at every oppurtunity take off the jacket or at least open it up.
It should also be a size bigger than what you would normally think to wear, this allows for air flow. help with heat build up.
PBI also has a limited vapour barrier, Nomex does not. some HAZMAT protection.
As to wearing it, it ain't that hard, use the thumb loops, keeps the sleeves down, ensure the neck nap is up and velco attached. if you got the right size then the legs shouldn't be a problem.
if you get too hot in a structure fire, maybe you have added too much water (steam logged your gear) or is the fire beyond internal attack.
Look here newbie!
You cant come in and start throwing all this logical stuff around, you will confuse alot of people!
Shame on you!
Basically though, our group has decided its too expensive to wear so unless its a structure or an alarm you cant wear it. Hell they were trying to tell me its safe to go in with level 1 and CABA!
OMGWTF, may i borrow your head vs wall animation? :x
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screw that...its not group who pays for the gear, why should they care....
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Basically though, our group has decided its too expensive to wear so unless its a structure or an alarm you cant wear it. filtered they were trying to tell me its safe to go in with level 1 and CABA!
OMGWTF, may i borrow your head vs wall animation? :x
Snap, we have the same situation... Only allowed to wear it to structure calls or AFAs, but stuff em, we still wear it to any job that sounds like it may require BA.
Camo - there is now paperwork i am led to believe, stating NOMEX is no longer permitted for internal attack full stop. Oh yer, and borrow away.
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You can still use NOMEX for internal attack, PBI gold was only ment to be given out once the Nomex gear was too old or was to be given to new CABA members as far as i know there as never been any letter saying you cant use NOMEX or that you should stop using it...
There is now a better level 3 turn out gear on the market at this stage TASSIE are the only state looking at it.....
The other issue at the moment is there is also a shortage of nomex wilfire gear so not too sure what they will do there,i guess PROBAN may come back....
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The other issue at the moment is there is also a shortage of nomex wildfire gear so not too sure what they will do there,i guess PROBAN may come back....
Interesting that you quote it as "Wildfire"..so its probably legitimate to wear PBI to everything except a wildfire ;)
For this topic, my input is, its up to you what you wanna wear...just dont be downright stupid.
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Our Group Officer was on the working party that was putting together the poster (the one that still hasn't been printed) on what you can wear to each incident type. He has instructed us that the rules are that you can wear PBI to anything apart from a rural fire or when you are going to wear a Hazmat suit.
We have now been wearing it to everything for the last couple of months and it hasn't killed us yet. Interesting to see the Lofty group still going down the path of wearing PBI pants and a Nomex coat to some jobs.
http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/pages/mylorfire210908/pages/DSC_3398.htm (http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/gallery/pages/mylorfire210908/pages/DSC_3398.htm)
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I think that is a cool idea. But i do see the contradiction of if i don't need pbi protection then why wear half and half. Other than to save carrying 2 sets of gear.
That is interesting Matt a few months ago you were saying the poster said Pbi could only be worn to structure fires or car fires but can be worn at OIC descrition.
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created new thread http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,1974.0.html (http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,1974.0.html)
Has a poll re: which incidents YOU wear PBI to.
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Why would you have PBI pants and a Nomex coat to some jobs?
Not having a go at anyone, but I can't
work out the logic in doing this.
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Not saying i would do it, (how gooberish would that look!!)but im guessing the logic behind it is that for grass/scrub fires etc. keep torso cool(ish) but still protected, and legs (where most of the dangers are) protected most.
It is interesting to note that within my group, a new directive has come out (Last Night) that PBI is only to be worn at training by the Duty Crew, unless it is CABA training.
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lol..."a new directive has come out (Last Night) that PBI is only to be worn at training by the Duty Crew, unless it is CABA training."
I think some groupies are getting to much into policy making...Statewide policy aka SOP is what i listen to, thanks.
Wonder how many would start whinging if i said: PBI is our firefighting gear, while Level 1 is a Step down for those extra hot outdoor fires.
Guidelines, Standing Orders, Directives...man, all this paperwork is tireing me...
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I think some groupies are getting to much into policy making...Statewide policy aka SOP is what i listen to, thanks.
If you can provide the state policy on PBI gold then let everyone know cos as far as the regions know there isn't one - which is why this whole issue is the mess that it is. I think region 1 now has developed a policy (in the absence of one from state) and it is as Matt said.
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If state hasnt provided a policy...is there then a "Need" for one.
Ive heard someone say, this is just another One piece vs Two piece or Carki vs Yellow war....so itll end one day....firefighting Evolution.
It comes down to each mind's skillful decisions...either be a smart person...or a dumb filtered.
Any MFS firefighters have this many toss and turns in bed during the night when the Blue to Gold change happened?
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The problem is that there is many mindsets about PBi and although you can do many things in lv1 proban it doesn't mean that Pbi should be restricted IMO.
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That is interesting Matt a few months ago you were saying the poster said Pbi could only be worn to structure fires or car fires but can be worn at OIC discretion.
I think the position changed substantially once some of the HQ gurus became involved, their thoughts were that it was paid for and provided to be worn - not sit in a station because it might get dirty.
If it gets dirty send it in for washing, if it gets damaged send it in for repair, don't compromise firefighter safety because of a budgetary concern.
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wow that thinking is kinda out of character from what we are used to.
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Guys and gals, you work out who you are.
If you have PBI and feel the need to wear it wear it, What are they going to do if you go against a group policy which holds no water at all.
go with the state directive, It is to be used for Structure and can be used fro RCR and limited protection at Hazmat.
In the end its your life not theirs, use that is why they provided it.
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If your Truck, Qav, Tanker/BWC or command vehicle doesn't have proper burnover protection, would you feel better wearing PBI gold whilst cowering under your woolen blanket, with adrenaline leaking out your backdoor?
Yeah I know that you wouldn't want to wear it actively fighting scrub fires, just a scenario!
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Why would you have PBI pants and a Nomex coat to some jobs?
Not having a go at anyone, but I can't
work out the logic in doing this.
You're allegedly supposed to carry your structural kit with you at a rural fire, so Lofty Group have suggested that rather than carry 2 sets of gear, you wear your PBI Gold pants, and carry 2 coats. Most of your body heat is supposedly lost through your upper body anyway, so having heavier pants shouldn't make that much difference heat wise. (It just looks a bit ...gooberish, as Pixie said).
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Wont look so Gooberish if a Gold version of the Level 1 Turnout coat was created ;)
Since PBI gold can be purchased in 4 components (Coat outer, Coat Liner, Pants Outer, Pants Liner).
The CFS could supply to all volunteers the following:
Coat Outer
Pants Outer
And for BA operators, current situation, but also a Liner-less Coat too.
This would return the CFS to single coloured turnout gear. :-D
OH SORRY NUMBERS, TOO LOGICAL, MY MISTAKE :evil:
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That is interesting Matt a few months ago you were saying the poster said Pbi could only be worn to structure fires or car fires but can be worn at OIC discretion.
I think the position changed substantially once some of the HQ gurus became involved, their thoughts were that it was paid for and provided to be worn - not sit in a station because it might get dirty.
If it gets dirty send it in for washing, if it gets damaged send it in for repair, don't compromise firefighter safety because of a budgetary concern.
After all they get our services for free, so if they want that to continue we will wear what is the best protection for us....Thanks :evil:
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It just looks a bit ...gooberish, as Pixie said).
Wont look so Gooberish if a Gold version of the Level 1 Turnout coat was created ;)
If people have a current L1 Jacket, I don't think it looks too gooberish. The day/night reflective striping is consistant overall. I honestly think it looks worse when you have volunteers in a combo of:
L1 Day Stripe
L1 Night Stripe
L1 Orange-Yellow Coat W/ CFS Coat of arms on the shoulder.
L1 Orange-Yellow overalls
Red/Silver CFS Back Marking
Silver Silouette Back Marking
Silver Italic Silouette Back Marking
Mix that all together for an outfit and your regular volunteer looks far worse than a bloke wearing PBI pants and a L1 Coat.