SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Darius on November 29, 2006, 01:00:09 PM
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29 November 2006 - 2:10 PM
Media Release : MOUNT BRYAN TRUCK ROLLOVER
MEDIA RELEASE
CFS Assistant Chief Officer, Rob Sandford said in statement regarding a CFS fire truck roll over at a fire at Bundaleer this morning:
“Just after 11:30am today a CFS appliance from Mount Bryan rolled.
The appliance and firefighters were mopping up on the fireground at a fire to the south of Bundaleer in the Mid North.
There were three firefighters on board the vehicle at the time of the roll over. Only one sustained injuries.
All three firefighters have been taken to Jamestown Hospital and the injured firefighter will be transported to Adelaide later today.
The extent of the firefighters injuries cannot be confirmed at this stage.
The relevant emergency services are in attendance and CFS will participate completely with any investigation by SafeWork SA.
The CFS has commenced a Chief Officers Investigation into the rollover.”
Click on the URL below to go to the full text of the message
http://www.cfs.org.au/media/article.asp?pArticleID=983
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Aha that would explain this page
1924962 11:53:35 29-11-06 JA81 Cat2 Jamestown Cfs/ses South Tce, Jamestown C117 E10 MULTIPLE HAZARDS R733077
1916041 12:37:48 29-11-06 JA81 PLEASE CALL ON RADIO WHEN POSSIBLE RE: SITREP. RETRIEVAL TEAM ON STANDBY AND REQUIRE INFO WHEN SUITABLE
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poor buggas hope they make a full recovery
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Hope everything will be ok
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wish the guys a speedy recovery.
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I feel sorry for the poor buggas as well but that just highlights how risky our job is and it's a huge relief that an SAAS retrieval team wasnt required :-( :-)
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Remember.... no speculation about cause etc etc...
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Murray Bridge, trendsetters.
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Either way both are reminder about responsibilities of driving an appliance :wink:
Dont think we need to add anything further,other than a speedy recovery for those involved.
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Were the crew from mt bryan also, or were they strike team replacements?
this was the appliance in question:
(http://www.fire-brigade.asn.au/photos/sacfs-mbyn-24.jpg)
I wish all 3 a speedy recovery.
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Making the comment of driving the appliance is speculation that driving was or is related to the cause..
Something none of us know, and would only be assuming.
Good luck, and god speed to the crew.
Lets leave all the guessing to the professionals who will be investigating the incident.. :)
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Making the comment of driving the appliance is speculation that driving was or is related to the cause..
Something none of us know, and would only be assuming.
Good luck, and god speed to the crew.
Lets leave all the guessing to the professionals who will be investigating the incident.. :)
going over the top there a little bud.
he was just making a generalised statement.
pls lets not let it get to the point where its that sensitive.
btw, does anyone know anymore on the F/F that was sent to adelaide. I've noticed this has been pretty quiet due to the blackhawk crash, has anyone even seen a picture of the truck, or what condition its in?
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Went past Truckworks recenly and it is in the yard outside looking a little worse for wear :-(
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Making the comment of driving the appliance is speculation that driving was or is related to the cause..
Something none of us know, and would only be assuming.
Good luck, and god speed to the crew.
Lets leave all the guessing to the professionals who will be investigating the incident.. :)
going over the top there a little bud.
he was just making a generalised statement.
pls lets not let it get to the point where its that sensitive.
btw, does anyone know anymore on the F/F that was sent to adelaide. I've noticed this has been pretty quiet due to the blackhawk crash, has anyone even seen a picture of the truck, or what condition its in?
Not really mate, I think you took it the wrong way personally, but hey, the joys of forums.
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Went past Truckworks recenly and it is in the yard outside looking a little worse for wear :-(
Where is truck works, I went past the place enar Pt Wakefield rd today and couldnt see it.
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Went past Truckworks recenly and it is in the yard outside looking a little worse for wear :-(
Where is truck works, I went past the place enar Pt Wakefield rd today and couldnt see it.
Truckworks is just off South Road at Wingfield, and its in the yard near the fence has no beacons and has been surrounded by other vehicles to a point where you have to look hard :wink:
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Would be nice if the CFS would update us on the Fire Fighters condition. We are all on the same team you know!
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Would be nice if the CFS would update us on the Fire Fighters condition. We are all on the same team you know!
Last media release was on 29th November and nothing since.....almost like MIA.
What support is being given by CFS :?
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Would be nice if the CFS would update us on the Fire Fighters condition. We are all on the same team you know!
There may be other reasons that nothing has been released - like maybe the firie or his/her family don't want anymore said about it? Just speculating...
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Those involved asked that their names etc not be released, and that their privacy be respected. Hence, very little else in the media.
I would expect that there is lots of support type things going on in the background, from both HQ / Region, and from the brigade / Groups involved, that we don't see, until we need the help ourselves...
Pip
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I understand the need for privacy etc but how is letting us know if he has been released from hospital or not a breach of privacy?
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Privacy policy is killing the why we do lots of things,in Victoria they have had to re do map books as they used to list we lived where or whos farm that was......
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*THIS IS BASED ON NO TRUTH AND IS ALL MY THOUGHTS AND HYPOTHESIS, thankyou.
MAYBE the CFS crew was at fault and there is now an investigation and the CFS dont want the media to know or find anything out so they just keep everything out of the media just to avoid speculation or stories from our wonderful media.
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I know for a fact that those involved have asked that their details not be released to the media / public.
I am sure that once the investigation of the incident is complete, then the findings will be made public in some form or another.
And besides, CFS has many more issues that should be pushed to the forefront of the media things - like the fries we have, the fire risk we currently face, recruiting more people, educating people about what to do in a bushfire etc etc. Nothing in the media can change what has happened, so we need to focus on things now that we can do something about now
Pip
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I dont know that anyone really cares what happened. We are just concerned for a fellow firefighter and how they recovering.
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I would say that we will see a new set of OHSW rules come out about the roll over,but I have to agree it would be nice to know how the crew is...
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Is Mt Bryan running a different appliance now. I believe the one that was in the rollover was pretty trashed.
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its at brukunga under lock and key
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its at brukunga under lock and key
Is this the damaged one you are talking about? Why would they lock it up? It was on show for the world to see at Truckworks for ages.
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Its probably best if we don't discuss this on here at the present time as the member who was hurt is not doing to good.....and yes a new SOP has come out about seatbelts after this accident.....
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The new SOP states that seat belts are to be worn at all times NO EXCEPTIONS
Whats your life worth :evil:
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there were 3 corrective actions (forgotten what Workcover call them) issued by Workcover on the CFS resulting from this. The revised seatbelt SOP was one, another was lack of off-road driver training and can't think of the third at the moment.
I just think it's tragic (and an appalling indictment on the CFS senior management) that it takes something like this to happen to a CFS member before they seriously consider off-road driver training. (The seatbelt SOP is legal arse-covering, people actively involved in fighting a fire from the rear of an appliance will not wear a seatbelt.)
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I just think it's tragic (and an appalling indictment on the CFS senior management) that it takes something like this to happen to a CFS member before they seriously consider off-road driver training. (The seatbelt SOP is legal filtered-covering, people actively involved in fighting a fire from the rear of an appliance will not wear a seatbelt.)
It's a hell of a catch 22 - CFS will never be able to train volunteers enough to avoid all injuries/accidents.
The drivers from our brigade did the advanced driver training course (I think that's what it's called) when our new 34 arrived. However 98% of our work is on flat country - we just don't get any ongoing exprience assessing the terrain these trucks can handle.
It concerns me every time we go to the hills (or up the bluff!).
Although the driver training is a good idea, I'd be very surprised if it made that much difference to incidents like this, for although I've no idea what lead to this truck roll over, I can imagine our brigade suffering a similar fate simply for lack of experience in hilly conditions.
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(The seatbelt SOP is legal filtered-covering, people actively involved in fighting a fire from the rear of an appliance will not wear a seatbelt.)
thats why you need to read the COSO properly darius. i dont see any reason why it is hard to wear seatbelts while travelling anywhere.... :-P
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Bit hard to chase a running grass fire when strapped in to the seat on the crew deck... :evil:
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I find on the back of the 24 wearing the seatbelt makes the trip more comfortable as you are not sliding around all over the place.
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Just gotta remember when responding an appliance be it on the fire ground or on the way there, Take a deep breath and think twice about your decisions. Better off taking a bit longer to get somewhere then to hurt one or all of your crew mates.
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Bit hard to chase a running grass fire when strapped in to the seat on the crew deck... :evil:
i say again... read the flaming COSO properly...
here is the modification of COSO 7
"Drivers and all passengers driving in/on a CFS vehicle must wear seatbelts at all times irrespective of whether the vehicle is on a public road or off road.
With regards the crew deck of fire appliances, crew shall remain seated and wear a seatbelt all times. The only exception for this will be for those who are operationally involved on the crew deck. Total crew numbers must not exceed the number of available seatbelts."
so tell me... what is hard about that?
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The COSO wasn't burning when it arrive in Post Box...and it certainly hasn't been burning since! :wink:
And Mack, just settle a little.... a little sarcasm, with the :evil: giving an email equivalent of a sarcastic facial expression..... :wink:
The COSO states clearly about travelling to an incident - no argument there, there aren't really too many excuses for not being strapped in on the way to the call (despite have the crew having trouble with travelling backwards, in a space without a lot of ventilation, and end up arriving at an incident, ready to throw up, regardless of how careful the driver is - but they will still be strapped in.)
The slightly confusing thing is about travelling on the fireground, and when do crews need to be strapped in - at a Group meeting last week, there were five different brigade reps, all of whom interpreted this in a slightly different way.
So there perhaps needs to be a closer look at the actual COSO, and some sensible discussion, and clarification on that issue....
Pip
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pip, IMO the COSO covers everything clearly...
anyone that is doing something "operational" on the back of the crew deck doesnt have to be belted in.
perhaps they should add a definition of the term "operationally involved" to make it more obvious for some....
btw, if your crew cant handle sitting backwards on the crew deck perhaps they shouldnt be on the truck.... or maybe the need to toughen up :wink: (notice the wink, indicating that i am joking)
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Does anyone know the answer to my original question. Is Mt Bryan running a different appliance now? The promo site lists the crashed one still.
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As Pip says, no argument about wearing seatbelts whilst travelling to/from an incident. The way it reads to me is you must wear one whilst on the back of the appliance except when squirting water. So, eg. you are on the fireground squirting water out the hose(s), decide to make up, all aboard, move up the track a few hundred metres (or a km or whatever), get off again, squirt some more. You would have to all put seatbelts on for that appliance movement. This is not going to happen (being realistic). Some might argue that you don't have to in those circumstances, but the way it reads to me is that you do.
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Thanks Darius - that was my interpretation of the COSO....although to go a step futher what does "Operationally involved" mean.
Does it mean that if you are not actually the one squirting the water, that you must be strapped in on the fire ground?
If so, my issue with that is that if you are actually on an active fireground, and sitting down in the crew haven on a standard 24 / 34 single cab, you cannot see where the fire is coming from, which direction it is going, how big or fast moving it is, where your potential escape routes might be should you be involved in burn over, and can potentally not know where particular assets that you might have to protect...all because you are seated on the back, and cannot see....
While I don't know alot about the Mt Bryan appliance roll over, I do know that the two people on the back of the appliance were able to jump clear as the truck rolled, and suffered only "minor" injuries, while it was the driver who suffered serious injuries.
I don't suggest that on that basis, we shouldn't be wearing seatbelts on the fireground, but things do need to be put into perspective.....
To solve much of this dilemma, perhaps we can just get the Government to pay to replaces the 500 or so single cab appliances with twin cabs during 2007-08, and much of this issue is solved!! :evil: :wink:
And Mack, even the Captain gets car sick on the back of the appliance travelling backwards...the rest of the crew just follows...!!!! :evil:
Pip
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Be realistic...
We do a dangerous job thats it!
If someone gets hurt every now and then so be it. We cant wrap everyone in cotton wool!
If your not willing to put your life on the line then you shouldnt be in the fire service! You can do as much preventive work as you want but people will still get hurt occasionally. And lets face it the record for the CFS is pretty good!
I know its harsh and sounds like i dont give a scheiße but im just being realistic!
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Be realistic...
We do a dangerous job thats it!
If someone gets hurt every now and then so be it. We cant wrap everyone in cotton wool!
If your not willing to put your life on the line then you shouldnt be in the fire service! You can do as much preventive work as you want but people will still get hurt occasionally. And lets face it the record for the CFS is pretty good!
I know its harsh and sounds like i dont give a filtered but im just being realistic!
I have to agree with Camo here. I believe he raises a good point.
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Athol,yes they are running another appliances not sure what it is may be pip can find out....I think the word we are looking for with the change in the COSO is common sense....
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The unfortunate thing is that common sense is different for every person. Although it is generally along the same line of thinking.
We are lucky, to have both frontline appliances as dual cabs, so it makes it pretty clear cut, but in any case....
How many of us drive ours cars down the street without a seatbelt? remember those ads a little while ago....
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Does anyone know the answer to my original question. Is Mt Bryan running a different appliance now? The promo site lists the crashed one still.
Mt Bryan now have the Region 4 Spare, XQN026, formerly UPX858
Pip
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Interesting article in todays Advertiser. I always thought it was Mt Bryan, not Mt Thomas? Never heard of that brigade :-)
Off-road training forced on CFS
April 23, 2007 02:15am
COUNTRY Fire Service volunteers are not given fundamental off-road driver training, despite fighting fires in challenging terrain, an investigation has found.
The service has been forced to introduce widespread training and sweeping safety measures after an accident which left one volunteer a quadriplegic.
SafeWorkSA served service chief officer Euan Ferguson with three binding Improvement Notices, under the Occupational Health Safety and Welfare Act.
That follows an investigation into an accident last November 29 when three service volunteers from the Mt Thomas brigade were mopping up at a Bundaleer fireground in the Mid North.
The truck rolled and the driver was thrown from the cabin. He is in the Hampstead Rehabilitation Centre adapting to life without the use of his arms and legs.
The subsequent SafeWorkSA investigation has led to orders that:
ALL drivers of CFS appliances are adequately trained to ensure they are equipped to drive CFS vehicles on the environment they are required to operate.
All CFS personnel involved in making command decisions in fireground operations receive training and instruction in risk assessments.
SEATBELTS are worn at all reasonable times.
CFS manager of strategic services, Mick Ayre, said the accident was "a very big tragedy" but, considering there were 16,000 volunteers, the number of casualties in the organisation was very low.
"We have a motto which is safety first, come home safe and we try to engender that in all volunteers," he said.
Despite this and the fact "our volunteers are working in paddocks and all sorts of topography", he said the issue of off-road training among 450 brigades, with 800 appliances, had not been addressed as an "oversight".
"One of the things we have not been good at doing, is we have never really addressed effectively the driving of 4WD trucks off road," Mr Ayre said.
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Maybe the person who wrote that article likes the show blue heelers :wink: :lol:
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hehe yeh! good show wasnt it....i still remember the episodes when there were fires in mt thomas hehe
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SEATBELTS are worn at all reasonable times.
Now what are non reasonable times I know people who would debate this till the cows come home.
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Was unaware it left the member quadraplegic.. :-(
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yes it is very sad.
Good luck to him & i hope him & his family survive this trauma.
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SEATBELTS are worn at all reasonable times.
Now what are non reasonable times I know people who would debate this till the cows come home.
Don't go on a quote from the paper. Get you Captain to show you the new COSO. They will have the updated ones to stick over the old. That's the info you need to go by :wink:
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I know and I have seen it it pretty much says seatbelts at all times.
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I think it is a good call that we do wear seatbelts,as we have seen not only in this state but if we where to wear seatbelts then the risks to ones self is reduced.Having said that I know that its going to be hard to enforce this rule but lets look at this as a way of solving some problems. You still will have crews standing on the work deck chasing a grass or scrub fire but what the NEW COSO is saying that while you are not attacking or fighting the fire that you sit down and put the seatbelt on for your own safety.Is that asking to much of members??? I don't think so and from what has happended to one member of the service I think its a timely warning that we should all take better care of our own safety and that of our crews that we are entrusted to lead from the time we leave the station till the time we get back if ITS NOT ON PUT IT ON, and come home safe.
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I think it is a good call that we do wear seatbelts,as we have seen not only in this state but if we where to wear seatbelts then the risks to ones self is reduced.Having said that I know that its going to be hard to enforce this rule but lets look at this as a way of solving some problems. You still will have crews standing on the work deck chasing a grass or scrub fire but what the NEW COSO is saying that while you are not attacking or fighting the fire that you sit down and put the seatbelt on for your own safety.Is that asking to much of members??? I don't think so and from what has happended to one member of the service I think its a timely warning that we should all take better care of our own safety and that of our crews that we are entrusted to lead from the time we leave the station till the time we get back if ITS NOT ON PUT IT ON, and come home safe.
I agree, it only takes a second to put on a seatbelt and that could be the only thing that saves your life. We wear a seatbelt in our cars, or atleast better be, so why would travling to a job be any different.
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at most there should 6 people on the truck. 3 on the back 3 in the front.
1 on pump & 2 on branches.
Who is sitting down?
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um the 3 in the front. it is a bit hard to stand up in the cab? 8-) :-o :?
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um the 3 in the front. it is a bit hard to stand up in the cab? 8-) :-o :?
You'd be surprised what they can do at Compton. :-)
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um the 3 in the front. it is a bit hard to stand up in the cab? 8-) :-o :?
Some older appliances have dickie seats.. (Centre seats) - Horrible if your the poor driver ! .. I would suggest if you wanted 6, four in the back, two in the front.
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Only three seatbelts in the back... :-(
Pip
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You'd be surprised what they can do at Compton. :-)
We are a flexible mob.
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Having been in an appliance which rolled during the floods at Langhorne Creek, and being in the dickie seat at the time, my option to always wear a seat belt stopped me from either serious injury or drowning,as the left side of the appliance was submerged :-o
Wear them everytime guys...whats your life worth :?
It is not uncommon to get the dirty looks as you tell your crews to wear them but we are responsible for our own and others safety!!
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um the 3 in the front. it is a bit hard to stand up in the cab? 8-) :-o :?
alright smarty pants! :-D
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Does anyone know if there has been a fund setup for the firefighter injured in this accident?
Im sure there would be plenty of people willing to help this family out as some of that equipment needed can be very expensive.
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Not sure,but one would hope that the family are being taken care of by the insurance that CFS have on all its members but it is never enough..May be the VFBA can put some more light onto this one....
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I believe the VFBA was going all out, as you would expect, to support this member who has tragically been left quadraplegic by this accident.
But why are we still responding to incidents every single day with drivers who have had no driver training beyond attaining their licence?
Any why do we get a couple of million in the state budget for training in rural bushfire suppression while this critical issue continues to be bandaided?
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Because if someone made the decision that tomorrow no appliance was to attend an incident until the drivers 'all' took driver training, 95% of the incidents that occur will not be attended..
It all comes down to being a volutneer service, and liability.. - To be honest, I think the ratio of accidents to non accidents is pretty good..
Ofcourse any incident involving harm / injury / death to a Vol. isn't acceptable, but unfortunately these things do happen..
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Do the MFS do any defensive/offensive driver training?
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rescuehazmat,you are correct but CFS does have a duty of care to its members and they are only following what worksafe want them to do..CFA is also going down this track again. If its there just put it on and come home safe.