SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: Bagyassfirey on March 01, 2009, 09:06:33 AM
-
yes we have done burnover training that is the one training day we have every year before the fire season..This works for our brigade and works well. we have a roster system to run the truck every sunday and this works well to. just because we dont got to the station on a night every week n talk n play fire doesn mean we are not good firefighters.
-
One training day before the season?? I thought that members had to have at least 12 training sessions a year let alone 1 for the whole brigades before the season?
-
One training day before the season?? I thought that members had to have at least 12 training sessions a year let alone 1 for the whole brigades before the season?
dont know there mate...thats just what we do and have done for years.
-
Bit like tonight....on the pager site....one Brigaed is doing burnover drill tomorrow....like hello....its farking March....
misterteddy u should be careful with a statment like that as with my brigade some do burn over more than once a year, and others simply because they can't get all their members in at the same time to do it once.
-
and yes we and i don train weekly..doesn mean jack filtered whether u train or not...
It does if you have those type of members and they are asking (on the fireground) where things are on the truck or they can't remeber how to do something or they do it wrong because (through not training) don't know it has changed, basiclly this type of attitude is potentily dangerous to the health of others.
-
well it works 4 us it might not work 4 others.
-
isn't training for people who don't have real experience??
-
isn't training for people who don't have real experience??
I hope you are being a bit sarcastic Boredermatrix in some ways. On a more serious side of this yes you are right if you only attend an average of 20 incidents a years of a varying in nature you do need to training to be prepared for all the different types of tasks you do per year. Then again we can always try putting safety first if we train.
I had an interesting encounter with a member of another service where by both our respected services are using more and more of each other resources either training or administration to both of us we feel we might as well be one organisation if we are going to share so much :-P
-
SAFECOM is coming remember :wink:
-
Why doing burnover drills now??? hmm, new members? some people been away for several months with work, now available again? refresh some minds again? Just part of the on going cycle of doing training? All reasons apply for one brigade that did burnover drill the other week
-
Why doing burnover drills now??? hmm, new members? some people been away for several months with work, now available again? refresh some minds again? Just part of the on going cycle of doing training? All reasons apply for one brigade that did burnover drill the other week
"WARNING WARNING, COMMON SENSE IN USE, WARNING WARNING"
Members youve been warned about this kind of behaviour! :-D
-
More likely for members that want to put their names up for Vic but are denied as they haven't done this years drill (or the paperwork has not been submitted)....
-
whats it matter anyway when the MFS guys that go over havent done skills maitenance 1 or 2 :wink:
-
For those who are or aspiring to be Brigade Captains there is a legislative requirement on two accounts that need to show that the members of a brigade are operationally competent and that training records are being maintained. If an accident does occur it will be the Brigade Captain who will get asked the questions and given the task of rectifying the problem.
Training for the sake of training is not needed but training for the ensuring that members are safe and competent is needed. At an incident we are members of a team and we are only good as they say as the weakest link in a chain. I would like to think that it is not myself or one of my fellow members of the Brigade who is deemed to be the weekest link.
-
Well my brigade which is not that busy by an means went to about 8 different types of jobs last year. Now i would assume that means we need at least 8 training sessions (we have 1 a week). now 8 isn't many when you have to put lots of people through tasks .
eg who has seen a person learn and become operationally competent in pumping in 1 session? Those of us who run training know this is an almost impossible task.
-
I would like to have the personal time to commit has a volunteer to train once per week. But with work, family, kids, house tasks, maintenance, other interests, etc, etc....I don't have time.
This is one of a few reasons for not joining a local agency (yellow PPE).
Currently my Unit train once per month which (personal opinion only) is not enough to build teamwork, trust and competence of majority of the volunteers. But majority of the volunteers disagree & it is more important to keep volunteers than be perfect in all jobs required.
Be flexible to meet the volunteers lifestyle....if people can make fortnightly training, then great. If they can make a weekend day training, then great.
Some are on shift work (like me), so could you do some training on a weekday morning ??
But I believe it should be acknowledged that if the volunteer does not do enough training to be competent in the task required, then they do not do that task...it is too much risk for the whole crew & people you are helping.
** personal opinion only **
-
That is true that family has to come first. BUT i have a question why can;t we change the attitude of "your a vollie come when you can" to "you have chosen to make CFS/SES etc a part of you're life be here on x night to train" People are happy to commit to things like youth groups and scouts so how come we can't say "We ask you to make Monday your CFS night"?
We all agree that 10 good crew are better than 40 we never see
-
It's a tough question. You can hardly ask a Brigade that may turnout only 5-10 times a year, if that, to hold very regular training sessions. As long as Brigades hold training, often enough to remian proficient in any roles they may have, is that not enough? Us from the busy UI Brigades may be shocked that anyone could train less than weekly, but in many places, the need does not exist. If you only ever turnout during summer, then why not have a big pre-fire season training session, and then a few days throughout summer?
-
There is certainly a requirement for training on a 'regular' basis. Not only legislatively, but for our own safety and piece of mind.
My brigade trains weekly, however we generally have a month in winter and a few weeks over xmas off - everyone needs a break. The surronding brigades change thier training schedule based on the time of year.
- once a month
- once a fortnight
- weekly
It results in a number of pager messages to remind people, but a small price to pay.
The result is that as a group there is a requirement to train 12 times a year which can be met easily, and there is flexabiliy for those who work on the land.
-
My unit trains on a weekly basis, it is a come if you can type scenario. I believe you are expected to attend at least two trainings a month and 50% of the call outs are preferred, otherwise you can be considered as a non active member and hand back the pager, not sure what CFS vollies do on training nights but SES training is always varied and interesting.
Point is, you can never get enough training as long as the training situation is varied, no point doing same casualty rescue week in week out. Same for CFS i guess, no point doing just a basic drill, have to mix it up and add some extra variations to the exercises, makes it interesting and makes you think...
-
We train Weekly, Except Public holidays (which is a shame sometimes).
Pretty much spend November-March doing slightly more rural work. and April to november Urban/Hazmat/Rescue work. But all year round its kinda inter-mingled.
I personally wouldnt mind having a "General" Training night on the typical monday night. But also a more focused training night on Fortnightly maybe wednesday/thursday...deals with doing things with more pace.
A different idea...Monthly Inter-group training... (eg 10-12 brigades have a few people each intermingle to train with eachother..a bit more abroad)
-
That is true that family has to come first. BUT i have a question why can;t we change the attitude of "your a vollie come when you can" to "you have chosen to make CFS/SES etc a part of you're life be here on x night to train" People are happy to commit to things like youth groups and scouts so how come we can't say "We ask you to make Monday your CFS night"?
We all agree that 10 good crew are better than 40 we never see
That is one of the reasons why I have not joined the local CFS Brigade or SES Unit. I cannot make the "...you have chosen to make CFS/SES etc a part of you're life be here on x night to train.." criteria.
So I am volunteering with a SES Operations Unit which requires less of a time commitment.
I hope the choice is given to all potential volunteers that walk through the door. It would be sad to see potential volunteers that have important life-skills that can be used at incidents, walk away because of other time commitments.
Think about the radio, comms, welfare, maintenance, admin, etc, etc roles that do not require weekly training.
The alternative has not been offered by either local organisation...but then those roles are already filled by volunteers. :roll:
-
we turn out to less than 10 incidents a year and train once on a sunay before the fire season..This is what we do and region know this and don say "you need to do more" so i guess its enough.
-
Yes i do acknowledge that you can;t really tell quiet brigades to train weekly.
That is true that family has to come first. BUT i have a question why can;t we change the attitude of "your a vollie come when you can" to "you have chosen to make CFS/SES etc a part of you're life be here on x night to train" People are happy to commit to things like youth groups and scouts so how come we can't say "We ask you to make Monday your CFS night"?
We all agree that 10 good crew are better than 40 we never see
That is one of the reasons why I have not joined the local CFS Brigade or SES Unit. I cannot make the "...you have chosen to make CFS/SES etc a part of you're life be here on x night to train.." criteria.
So I am volunteering with a SES Operations Unit which requires less of a time commitment.
I hope the choice is given to all potential volunteers that walk through the door. It would be sad to see potential volunteers that have important life-skills that can be used at incidents, walk away because of other time commitments.
Think about the radio, comms, welfare, maintenance, admin, etc, etc roles that do not require weekly training.
The alternative has not been offered by either local organisation...but then those roles are already filled by volunteers. :roll:
To be honest that is the kind of person i want in my brigade the one who will admit that they can't commit to x amount of training.
We had one member who initially joined the brigade as a comms operator but ended up being a FF. By all accounts was a good member but his employment often required him to be overseas. Due to an army background he made the personal decision to leave operational duties as he didn't consider it safe for him to be on the truck.
We asked him to stay but he had made his choice.
That kind of member is much better than one that rocks up once a month and doesn't realize how much they are lacking compared to the rest of the crew.
Unfortunately sometimes members will leave but to me saftey and hence well trained people are more important than numbers on a pice of paper.
-
we turn out to less than 10 incidents a year and train once on a sunay before the fire season..This is what we do and region know this and don say "you need to do more" so i guess its enough.
Being from a rural Brigade where by we can have on average 15 incidents per year and we train weekly with a once a month sunday training as well. We work off the principle that we don't train in school holidays or on long weekends or on days where the weather is above 35 degrees (location and environmental reasons for this choice and would make it an interesting aside). We have chosen to take this approach to training due to local community expectations and the close scrutiny of the local press to any mistakes or perceived mistakes. We work off a 50% rules of needing to be present and Region knows this. They are also the first in after the any perceived pear shape operations with pen, paper and recorder. I can understand how some of the guys from Wangary felt with the lawyers after being through a the CFS own version.
If you want to the run risk of this happening to you then be my guess I prefer to err on the safe side of things
-
Why doing burnover drills now??? hmm, new members? some people been away for several months with work, now available again? refresh some minds again? Just part of the on going cycle of doing training? All reasons apply for one brigade that did burnover drill the other week
BINGO
-
My brigade is Rural\Urban in a small town average 20 calls a year. We train weekly how ever some of our members due to other comitments cant make training every week so we comprimise, So while they can't make all training they at least make all the ones that they can. That way they are still training. I have more respect for these people than the once that don't turn up to train because they can't be bothered.
-
we turn out to less than 10 incidents a year and train once on a sunay before the fire season..This is what we do and region know this and don say "you need to do more" so i guess its enough.
I'm assuming this is probly you baiting the guys here anyway.... but...
Considering the above statement, do you actually feel that you could competently respond to any incident that may arise in your area? Or is the community at risk due to poorly trained firefighters?
[I think i already know the answer to this and don't really expect an un-biased answer]
-
I'll say it again but I try and put it in simple terms so that you can understand it. Hang on it been said partly already
do you actually feel that you could competently respond to any incident that may arise in your area? Or is the community at risk due to poorly trained firefighters?
considering the statements made by Alex one bad day on the job lives a lot longer in the minds of the community than 10 good jobs. More importantly we train to reduce the risks that we are exposed to so that we come home safe.
-
we turn out to less than 10 incidents a year and train once on a sunay before the fire season..This is what we do and region know this and don say "you need to do more" so i guess its enough.
I'm assuming this is probly you baiting the guys here anyway.... but...
Considering the above statement, do you actually feel that you could competently respond to any incident that may arise in your area? Or is the community at risk due to poorly trained firefighters?
[I think i already know the answer to this and don't really expect an un-biased answer]
Hmmm well i havent been to an incident or heard of one ever that our brigade hasnt been able to handle. people just have to realise some brigades do things differently to others just the way it is.
-
Hmmm well i havent been to an incident or heard of one ever that our brigade hasnt been able to handle. people just have to realise some brigades do things differently to others just the way it is.
Hark do I hear the sound of a can of worms opening :evil:
-
Hmmm well i havent been to an incident or heard of one ever that our brigade hasnt been able to handle. people just have to realise some brigades do things differently to others just the way it is.
Hark do I hear the sound of a can of worms opening :evil:
whats ya mean?
-
Well Bagyassfirey if you do things differntly to other brigades does this mean
a) compitsite crews rearly occur for your brigade
b) that you having a different training standard
c) you (your brigade) have been lucky not to have an injury that is required to have an investigation
and on I can go with more probing questions
-
i meant we do things different from other brigades by not having an organised training once a week.
-
Cause when the S**t does hit the fan what's one of the first things they check "training records" to see types of training, competence, fequency, attendance, and so on........
-
I have a 3 year old and I cant always get to training, however my priority is to go to as many as i can when i can. That is all the brigade ask for. I attend as many calls as i can but my daughter is always my first priority.
Training is always important. You can never know everything and sometimes its the simplest tasks that we might forget. Whether you have training once week/ fortnight or monthly is a brigade discretion and if it works then so be it.
but brigade members need to be up to date and familiar with their equipment. nothing worse than responding to a call and not knowing where equipment is or not knowing how to use it.
-
Or maybe people need to be much stricter on themselves about admitting when they don;t think they know enough to be safe at the job.
-
Or maybe people need to be much stricter on themselves about admitting when they don;t think they know enough to be safe at the job.
But your Brigade would never get a truck out the door?
-
hahaha, i can say things have changed
-
Or maybe people need to be much stricter on themselves about admitting when they don;t think they know enough to be safe at the job.
But your Brigade would never get a truck out the door?
I thought that was Stirling that didn't get trucks out the door ? Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it.... :-P
-
I thought that was Stirling that didn't get trucks out the door ? Maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it.... :-P
Geeze, where to start? Stirling haven't got any crew to get out the door, so no response is a given. If we we're to look at all the Brigades who couldn't get out the door because their members "Dont know enough to be safe at the job" We'd realistically be looking at 99% of the service :P
Well, apart from Burnside, Barker, the Valley and the 'vale of course...
-
theres a few "others" numbers....its just a matter of "consistancy" in those "others".
-
com'on i can guarantee we would be able to safely roll to all the tree downs :-D :-P
But seriously, I think although people scream "Its voluntary so I'll come when it suits", but then go and play local sport and Never miss a training, they should be able to apply that commitment to CFS.
-
OK mod hat on
We have had some complaints about this thread, as there haven't been any personal attacks and i believe it is all in good humour, i'll leave it but lets get back on topic and discuss training frequency.
-
wait....what?
There has been some complaints about the lack of slandering?
-
com'on i can guarantee we would be able to safely roll to all the tree downs :-D :-P
But seriously, I think although people scream "Its voluntary so I'll come when it suits", but then go and play local sport and Never miss a training, they should be able to apply that commitment to CFS.
OK mod hat on
We have had some complaints about this thread, as there haven't been any personal attacks and i believe it is all in good humour, i'll leave it but lets get back on topic and discuss training frequency.
Take your chainsaw and go and have a cry in the corner...
I hear that you don't mind the odd pair of chaps. Both chainsaw and love related?
Actually, I'm going to start complaining about anyone who complains. I've never met a bunch of more soft skinned 'Firefighters' in my life... Something to do with volunteering perhaps?
-
Hmmm Numbers :wink:
seems like that to me too (somethings should not be discussed at all even if it is constructive criticism)- thats why I don't play in the sand pit much anymore :-D
Anyway hope everyone has fun with their chaps - I just got a new pair! :wink:
cheers
-
Hmmm Numbers :wink:
seems like that to me too (somethings should not be discussed at all even if it is constructive criticism)- thats why I don't play in the sand pit much anymore :-D
Anyway hope everyone has fun with their chaps - I just got a new pair! :wink:
cheers
Chook..... did you wear out the old pair... just chainsawing.
The sandpit bekons, weve missed your mindless drivel.....is it a mexican thing? :-D
-
No mate the wild men of southern NSW didn't have a use for them in the past (only the boys from Paddington :wink: ).
Anyway dark green isn't my colour.
-
What a fantastic topic this one is. I wish I'd found it much earlier. As a Brigade Training Officer from a brigade who's captain doesn't beleive in training I find my self severely frustrated on a regular basis. The sooner the CFS introduce a skills maintenance program that is required to be conducted on a yearly basis the better.
-
My brigade we train once a week for for about 3 hours a night we also have a sunday training once a mouth we work really well as a team and there isnt really one person who say i dont no what to do training is so worth it. we all look foward to going to training.We are loike a big famliualy .
-
Moderated*Think about what you say, before your fingers do the talking*
-RescueHazmat.
-
Or perhaps they attend every week and this is a non issue!
Dont judge everybodys competence by your own! :-D
Axe grinding workshop lookout for it :wink: seems like trainings not big down the DOO way? :mrgreen:
Mod Note: Removed reference to previous post
-
Training is not a big thing down this way full stop,and its time CFS and groups did something about it.......
-
Personal attack I think :?
Mod Note: removed reference to original post
-
.....
For someone who makes it so clear on who they are, I would watch the level at which you publically slander other people.
-
Mod Note: removed reference to original post
For someone who makes it so clear on who they are, I would watch the level at which you publically slander other people.
I never said who I was talking about, I didn't even mention what brigade or group they where from. I bet if the CFS sent some one around every brigade in the state there would be a number of members who would fit into the '6%" catergory who don't attend training and who's compedidence is somewhat lacking
-
Mod Note: removed reference to original post
For someone who makes it so clear on who they are, I would watch the level at which you publically slander other people.
I never said who I was talking about, I didn't even mention what brigade or group they where from. I bet if the CFS sent some one around every brigade in the state there would be a number of members who would fit into the '6%" catergory who don't attend training and who's compedidence is somewhat lacking
I agree with KDOO_BTO, there are members on here who shoot their mouth off on a regular basis who go quiet as soon as training at brigade level is mentioned. As for slander I never saw any names or places mentioned but if the hat fits WEAR IT. I would be very surprised if every group in the state did not have at least 1 of these types of people in them
-
Mod Note: removed reference to original post
Personal attack I think :?
[/quote]
No just a mere comment if I was going to make it a personal attack I'd name names. I call a spade a filtered spade not a shovel.
-
meh.....
-
If we audited trainnning and saw how many people who did not train and how many of them are on the trucks would you feel safe :?
I come from a brigade that trainins we weekly does that mean we are any good at fire fighting who knows this begs the other question what is the quality of that training like I hope that ours is pretty good
-
compedidence is somewhat lacking
It appears your spelling competence is somewhat lacking... :evil:
-
Mod Note: removed reference to original post
Personal attack I think :?
No just a mere comment if I was going to make it a personal attack I'd name names. I call a spade a filtered spade not a shovel.
What and you think we are stoooopid? You don't have to name names dude :roll:
-
OK, time to get back on topic...
Skills maintenance is good, provided guidelines are given and explained correctly. Look at the problems they had with the burnover drill last year.
We also dont want to get to the point where all we do is skills maintenance drills.
-
Bottom line is you do the drills to maintain your skills, by doing so thus makes you a better firefighter and keeps you up to date with all the changes that happen, and makes us as an organisation look professional. :-D
Members with banjos and shorts is not approved PPE :-P
-
there is now pepole from i think called safecom that are going to go to everystation and do station health checks this will show the brigade if they have work to do and what they need to work on as a station and maybe even as a group
-
and what happens if the goals are moved and the the outcome is near impossible from these health checks
-
Moving the goals would need to be justified.....
However, if they do move and the brigade does not feel it can meet the requirements of todays service... then closure may be an option. I would fully expect them to do everything possible to prevent that from happening though...
As has ben mentioned before, the service has moved on, some brigades have resisted this for a surprising amount of time, but its time to pick the game up and play ball...
-
fair point when you look at Matts piece in the other thread - time to cull some dead wood?
-
a brigade who's captain doesn't beleive in training
WHAT, You've Gotta Be joking. Last time I checked the capt is ultimatly responsible for all aspects of the brigade (including training), Not believing in training is like not believing in your crew, I would even think it would come under duty of care, OHS or something.
-
Where is the region, where is the group, don't they check these things ?