SA Firefighter

General Discussion => Other Government Agencies => Topic started by: CFS_Firey on May 01, 2006, 02:34:31 PM

Title: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 01, 2006, 02:34:31 PM
You will find that P2 for SES means that there is no fire truck  going but still a lights and sirens job. P1 means a fire truck is responded too.

Matty
This is a quote from the "Ammusing pager messages" thread, in reference to the SES responding lights and sirens to a tree down with the CFS.

Am I to understand from this that the SES has Priority 1 when responding with the fire service, and 2 when they aren't? Presumably P3 is responding without lights and siren?
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: MATTY on May 01, 2006, 03:06:25 PM
this is correct cfs firey
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: PF_ on May 01, 2006, 03:51:44 PM
Do SES have trucks with lights and sirens?

Anyone have a pic?
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: bajdas on May 01, 2006, 03:54:39 PM
Do SES have trucks with lights and sirens?

Anyone have a pic?

I hope this was a 'tongue in cheek' comment, but just in case have a look at http://www.sturtrescue.com.au/vehicles.htm  :-P
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: bajdas on May 01, 2006, 04:07:30 PM
You will find that P2 for SES means that there is no fire truck  going but still a lights and sirens job. P1 means a fire truck is responded too.

Matty
This is a quote from the "Ammusing pager messages" thread, in reference to the SES responding lights and sirens to a tree down with the CFS.

Am I to understand from this that the SES has Priority 1 when responding with the fire service, and 2 when they aren't? Presumably P3 is responding without lights and siren?

I will need to confirm, but I understand that P1 is 'life threat' or 'potential life threat'. If this is allocated, then other emergency services are responded to provide the fastest response.

Depending on the response area arrangements between MFS and CFS, the most appropriate resource will be responded. For example in the metropolitan area, this is MFS, if country CFS.

A tree on a major road can be deemed a risk in causing a motor vehicle accident. Thus P1 can be allocated for at least traffic control. SAPOL will also be notified.

A piece of roofing iron with potential to fall into a busy street could also be deemed 'potential life threat'. Other P1's can included 'industrial accidents', land search, etc.

The complete CRD rules between MFS and SES have been published in the lastest SASESVA Frontline magazine, but it is not on the website yet. I will try and scan the page for you.

The new SES priorities range in P1, P2, P3, P4 and NIL response. I have not seen the official SES documentation, so the above is my understanding.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: CFS_Firey on May 01, 2006, 11:28:45 PM
Thanks...

So would you choose your response priority from what information you have, or do you have SOP's that define what priority you should use? For example, in the CFS, We have to go P1 to fixed/private alarms, because even though 99% of the time they are false, if we only go P2 and someone dies, we were in the wrong... (As a major generalization :P)
Ie, do SES SOP's say Tree on main road = life threat, tree on driveway = reduced threat, even though you know its not (like if you know SAPOL are on scene, so it can't get any worse...)?
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2006, 11:42:09 AM
It really depends on where you are at the moment....

There are some limitations as for when to use P1 or P2, but its also somewhat up to the OIC....
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: probie_boy on May 02, 2006, 02:26:00 PM
i went to a job once with sturt SES. it was some unstable trees that had been loosened by a small landslide and was threatening someones house. It was a bad night weather wise and the SES had been busy, yet they still showed up and helped out. it was good of them considering we pretty much had it under control and they had been out all arvo. My point is that they had been out all afternoon and only used lights and sirens once, according to one of the guys. As i mentioned somewhere else, going fast with lights and sirens on is the best bit!
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: medevac on May 10, 2006, 12:24:38 AM
as Mike said; i would think the choice of priority of response is up to the OIC and he  is then accountable for it...
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on May 10, 2006, 02:50:29 AM
i went to a job once with sturt SES. it was some unstable trees that had been loosened by a small landslide and was threatening someones house. It was a bad night weather wise and the SES had been busy, yet they still showed up and helped out. it was good of them considering we pretty much had it under control and they had been out all arvo. My point is that they had been out all afternoon and only used lights and sirens once, according to one of the guys. As i mentioned somewhere else, going fast with lights and sirens on is the best bit!

Ah... THAT job. Yeah, it was pretty much under control. Had the SES *not* arrived we would have all been in bed a few hours earlier. Not to bag them, but it seemed to turn into a case of too many cooks..
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: probie_boy on May 10, 2006, 10:22:54 AM
hahaha...so by that comment i'm assuming that you were there?? Yes the good old fashioned "hurry up and wait" tactics were in full swing there that night!
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on May 10, 2006, 06:17:33 PM
Bring the Turfer (sp?) they said.... sit in the rain for 'only a while' they said. Three hours later, wet and mud covered we arrive back at station :P
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Mike on May 11, 2006, 07:41:17 AM
Bring the Turfer (sp?) they said.... sit in the rain for 'only a while' they said. Three hours later, wet and mud covered we arrive back at station :P

LOL... such a commonly used theory (sit around for only a little while!!!)  :-D
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on May 11, 2006, 02:02:43 PM
Dont get me started on the hurry up and wait Hazmats...
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: medevac on May 11, 2006, 09:02:36 PM
isnt that the normal story with grassfire striketeams...?

get called a couple hours late, priority one all the way there, stand around for a while, then go home...
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: strikeathird on May 11, 2006, 09:40:04 PM
^ Ha.. yes.. K.I jobs like that ring a bell !
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 24, 2006, 01:42:40 PM
Its not worth starting a new thread for this, but oh well. Over the past few days, we've seen a fair number of SES callouts. A lot of these seem to have been inconsistent in terms of the priority of turn out. P1, with two SES units and CFS/MFS, P1/P2 for only a tree down, that sort of thing. What happens if an SES unit is at a job, then get turned out to multiple P1/P2 jobs? Do they finish the current job and then run P1 to the next? Do they end up taking 15-20 mins to turnout then still going P1?

Another question that someone may know the answer to, why are the SES turned out P1/P2 to anyother job apart from RCR/and maaybe Building Impact? Life threat being... none? If the page dictates the response priority, can the OIC downgrade it?
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on September 24, 2006, 05:41:15 PM
 
16:44:49 24-09-06 CREW REQUIRED FOR LAND SEARCH AT MIDDLETON IMMEDIATELY TO STRATH BASE

16:42:19 24-09-06 MORE CREW REQUIRED FOR SEARCH

16:35:51 24-09-06 SOUTH COAST NOW OPERATIONAL 

16:30:57 24-09-06 MFS: RESPOND SEARCH 24/09/06 16:30,BASHAM BEACH RD,MIDDLETON, MAP 305 N 11 ,,ASSIST POLICE MISSING CHILD POLICE CONTACT NO xxxx xxx xxx,73229*CFSRES:

Just curious i realise CFS aren't trained in land search but surely some of these SES units could do with some more people and there quickly for some searches. There just seems to be some urgent searches going on around the place but they'll pull in units from 30+ kms away for a search when theres multiple CFS brigades within a 10km radius who could provide extensive manpower almost immediatly??? Whats peoples opinion???

And no i'm not searching for calls :-P

Mod Note: Phone number removal
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 24, 2006, 05:49:20 PM
Becuase walking in a line and looking at the ground requires a lengthy training course  :wink:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on September 24, 2006, 05:54:25 PM
Sir i think i found a child lying in the grass.
Are you sure?
Yes, i poked him with my prodder and he swore at me it's definatly a child.
 :-P :lol:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: PF_ on September 24, 2006, 05:56:49 PM
yeah it is a good idea and could work.  Do you need to do any trainign for a search in all seriousness.

 :lol: mundcfs, it might be chopper :-P
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 24, 2006, 05:59:03 PM
yeah it is a good idea and could work.  Do you need to do any trainign for a search in all seriousness.

"Ok, now lets all try walking forward and looking at the ground at the same time"
"BUT SIR"
"Yes, son, I know its hard, but we are an Emergency Service, THINK OF THE CHILDREN"
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: PF_ on September 24, 2006, 06:17:22 PM
well you do need accreditation to use a chainsaw or make a sandwich.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 24, 2006, 06:21:07 PM
well you do need accreditation to use a chainsaw or make a sandwich.
Yes, but you're hardly going to lop an arm off walking through grass :wink:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Manuel on September 24, 2006, 06:23:12 PM
Well i guess the SES needs to do something on training night other than brush their beards :-D
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 24, 2006, 06:52:29 PM
Beards are a life threat, respond P1
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: SA Firey on September 25, 2006, 01:13:59 AM

16:44:49 24-09-06 CREW REQUIRED FOR LAND SEARCH AT MIDDLETON IMMEDIATELY TO STRATH BASE

16:42:19 24-09-06 MORE CREW REQUIRED FOR SEARCH

16:35:51 24-09-06 SOUTH COAST NOW OPERATIONAL 

16:30:57 24-09-06 MFS: RESPOND SEARCH 24/09/06 16:30,BASHAM BEACH RD,MIDDLETON, MAP 305 N 11 ,,ASSIST POLICE MISSING CHILD POLICE CONTACT NO O401 991 668,73229*CFSRES:

Just curious i realise CFS aren't trained in land search but surely some of these SES units could do with some more people and there quickly for some searches. There just seems to be some urgent searches going on around the place but they'll pull in units from 30+ kms away for a search when theres multiple CFS brigades within a 10km radius who could provide extensive manpower almost immediatly??? Whats peoples opinion???

And no i'm not searching for calls :-P


SES are the designated authority for land search and yes there is a course to do it.It is not just about looking for someone but also for maintaining the chain of evidence, if anything goes pear shaped should it lead to a death etc.

We have been accused in the past of wearing too many hats so lets stick to what were good at firefighting :wink:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 25, 2006, 01:51:16 AM
I hope you mean, lets stick to firefighting, RCR, HAZMAT, Rope rescue, Confined space, USAR, Storm Damage  :wink:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: squiddy on September 25, 2006, 08:17:56 AM
I hope you mean, lets stick to firefighting, RCR, HAZMAT, Rope rescue, Confined space, USAR, Storm Damage  :wink:

Hmmm... I do believe that the CFS only has the monopoly on firefighting and HAZMAT, Toasty...
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: bajdas on September 25, 2006, 02:07:48 PM
Interesting the varying comments regards 'non called to a land search' and the comment earlier regards 'too many cooks' at a tasking. Too many people at a land search can cause more problems than resolve.

Yes, when you do the course you are taught to 'evidence / sign search' and team leaders are taught 'probability of survival search'.

Their is a lot more information regards a search than the simple pager message.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: squiddy on September 25, 2006, 04:36:54 PM
Interesting the varying comments regards 'non called to a land search' and the comment earlier regards 'too many cooks' at a tasking. Too many people at a land search can cause more problems than resolve.

Yes, when you do the course you are taught to 'evidence / sign search' and team leaders are taught 'probability of survival search'.

Their is a lot more information regards a search than the simple pager message.

Amen to that.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 12:50:58 AM
I hope you mean, lets stick to firefighting, RCR, HAZMAT, Rope rescue, Confined space, USAR, Storm Damage  :wink:

Hmmm... I do believe that the CFS only has the monopoly on firefighting and HAZMAT, Toasty...

Ah so are we talking monopoly or what we are trained to do and what equipment we carry?

Now, the only thing we dont do there is Confined Space(coming sooon) and USAR.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: squiddy on September 26, 2006, 07:12:06 AM
I hope you mean, lets stick to firefighting, RCR, HAZMAT, Rope rescue, Confined space, USAR, Storm Damage  :wink:

Hmmm... I do believe that the CFS only has the monopoly on firefighting and HAZMAT, Toasty...

Ah so are we talking monopoly or what we are trained to do and what equipment we carry?

Now, the only thing we dont do there is Confined Space(coming sooon) and USAR.

We carry fire extinguishers, but it doesn't make us firefighters... You're going to be confined space? Better not say it too loud, or else Noarlunga SES will chase you away  :evil:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: backburn on September 26, 2006, 10:49:40 AM
I guess we do not have to deal with evidence at any of our fires, MVA I have been doing it all wrong, silly me.

I have been on a few searches also looking for evidence in dumps its not that hard.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 01:37:33 PM
I guess we do not have to deal with evidence at any of our fires, MVA I have been doing it all wrong, silly me.

I have been on a few searches also looking for evidence in dumps its not that hard.
Exactly!
The term common sense comes to mind... But then again, it has proved to not be all that common.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: CFS_Firey on September 26, 2006, 02:50:21 PM
Quote
We carry fire extinguishers, but it doesn't make us firefighters...

If you carry the extinguishers, and you are trained to use them to fight fires, then yes, you are fire fighters - technically...
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Manuel on September 26, 2006, 07:06:55 PM
what hell no. most people who work in a office get trained to use a fire extinguisher
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Benji on September 26, 2006, 07:23:49 PM
but if they then use that extinguishers to fight the fire, then like was said they are technically fire fighters  :evil:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Manuel on September 26, 2006, 07:26:31 PM
fire‧fight‧er  /ˈfaɪərˌfaɪtɛr/ [fahyuhr-fahy-ter]-noun
a person who fights destructive fires.

well i guess the dic says it all
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: bajdas on September 26, 2006, 07:58:00 PM

16:44:49 24-09-06 CREW REQUIRED FOR LAND SEARCH AT MIDDLETON IMMEDIATELY TO STRATH BASE

16:42:19 24-09-06 MORE CREW REQUIRED FOR SEARCH

16:35:51 24-09-06 SOUTH COAST NOW OPERATIONAL 

16:30:57 24-09-06 MFS: RESPOND SEARCH 24/09/06 16:30,BASHAM BEACH RD,MIDDLETON, MAP 305 N 11 ,,ASSIST POLICE MISSING CHILD POLICE CONTACT NO xxxx xxx xxx,73229*CFSRES:

Just curious i realise CFS aren't trained in land search but surely some of these SES units could do with some more people and there quickly for some searches. There just seems to be some urgent searches going on around the place but they'll pull in units from 30+ kms away for a search when theres multiple CFS brigades within a 10km radius who could provide extensive manpower almost immediatly??? Whats peoples opinion???

And no i'm not searching for calls :-P

Mod Note: Phone number removal

I agree that the more trained people quickly on a large search the better.

For example, SAPOL are designated authority for land search. A single SAPOL STAR squad member is normally search controller who calls in SES volunteers.

My ideal solution would be to split the CFS crew amongst SES teams under the control of a SES Search Team Leader. This happens sometimes with local people being able to give directions to SES Search crews using local knowledge, so they join the search team.

Now to be frank, would this be a problem given the anomosity between SES & CFS between Victor Harbor & Goolwa that I have read in this forum ???

If so, I am sad for the lost child.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on September 26, 2006, 11:20:02 PM
To be truthful i enjoy working with the guys from south coast there are only a couple guys from that unit that i have and will never have any respect for but i enjoy working with them, there are a couple issues that i believe they need to sort out but i never bat an eylid if i have to call them to back us up. :-)

As for your idea about combining CFS and SES people in groups for searches Andrew i think it's a great idea that way they've got extra manpower plus theres still the trained search people within the group.

And as for animosity between members having a impact on work being done at a job, i don't tolerate it, we are there to work if there are problems they are brought up at a debrief afterwards and sorted out asap.
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Toast on September 26, 2006, 11:51:04 PM
Uh oh, if you start combining SES and CFS for searches, what next?
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on September 26, 2006, 11:54:10 PM
Maybe we could get together and mate, but we'd probably end up with a funny coloured hybrid sterile mule :lol:
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Manuel on September 26, 2006, 11:55:30 PM
you are getting the hang of this kinda humour
Title: Re: SES/CFS Response Priorities
Post by: Alan (Big Al) on September 27, 2006, 12:00:31 AM
I invented this humour if i wrote half the stuff i think of i'd be banned from the internet. :wink: