SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: BundyBear on August 15, 2010, 02:19:55 PM
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Dont go driving in the wet!
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wow
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damn they did do a good job of it didnt they.... oops
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Presumably this was from a few months ago...?
Pip
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Yes
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Just curious. Were they setting up an anchor on the vehicle chassis while the photos were being taken ?
I did not think the front step would be that strong, to be an anchor point for vehicle stability !
Please correct me if I am wrong and the existing rope goes underneath the step to somewhere else.
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Yikes....
So was there much damage in the end (other than pride!)?
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:-D as Nelson would say HA HA
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We all do it sooner or later,I guess we will see some OHSW stuff come out about this one.....
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I vote for the MFS approach and staying on the bitumen :evil:
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I vote for the MFS approach and staying on the bitumen :evil:
Where's the fun in that?!
Pip
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I vote for the MFS approach and staying on the bitumen :evil:
Where's the fun in that?!
Pip
oh I didnt say it was fun....... just the inevitable corporate OHS response to...
We all do it sooner or later,I guess we will see some OHSW stuff come out about this one.....
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Damn lucky they didn't roll it, looking at the pictures. Common sense says don't take the truck off road when the off road looks like that....
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I vote for the MFS approach and staying on the bitumen :evil:
Where's the fun in that?!
Pip
You tell him pip :)
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So what they just got a bit too close to the edge did they?
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So what they just got a bit too close to the edge did they?
They were driving down the track. Their 14 went through and when the 34 got down the back end stepped out on them. There was even someone on the crew deck.
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It was a few years ago they rolled their 14 on the way to an incident and Tea Tree Gully got diverted to cut them out now this. Some brigades really need to look at what they do driving at training and incidents.
This is a classic case of the OIC and the driver should be constantly assessing the driving conditions and you have to ask why would they have gone down a wet track and have a fire fighter on the crew deck when just going for a drive.
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This is not the place to criticise there decisions or actions. especially based on a couple of photos.
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why was someone on the deck while they were driving this track is what i would be asking sheesh :|
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umm....cos the appliance is made to have someone sitting strapped into a seatbelt in the rear.... lets not get all prissy about a dirt road (despite my earlier t.i.c. remark)
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This is not the place to criticise there decisions or actions. especially based on a couple of photos.
That's half the problem with CFS/SES dont critise the volunteer or tell them they have stuffed up, you might hurt their feelings, please!
How about we look for words like learnings for other brigades, opportunities for improvement and stop think identify and control when we are doing anything!
As for driving down a track in the middle of winter why would you have firefighters on the back when you have perfectly good seats and better seatbelts in side the vehicle where it provides a better level of protection, also do those new 34 rural appliance have seatbelts on the rear or is it purely a work deck?!
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Where is the place to learn and discuss? Yes, some whinge laugh and have all the answers. But a few might think, lets not do that and learn by others mistakes
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I dont think i am being
umm....cos the appliance is made to have someone sitting strapped into a seatbelt in the rear.... lets not get all prissy about a dirt road (despite my earlier t.i.c. remark)
not being prissy at all misterteddy, if they were at a fire fair enough but a slippery track, c'mon. why on earth is a lone firefighter on the crew deck of an appliance during driver training belted in or not anyway.... Isnt there SOP's stating that all members must travel inside the cab (if dual cab) whilst not undertaking firefighting operations??
Is this a brigade installed belt? or was this belt put on this particular build?
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Bundybear: This is a public forum and I think those that look after this site would rather we did not discuss CFS/SES/MFS/SAAS issues.. Without knowing the full facts of what took place its easy to sit here and have your 50cents worth. I am sure CFS will be sending out a OHSW warning after this problem and also with a member being on the crew deck while not engaged in firefighting...
Big Al you are correct SOPS require where a brigade has a crew cab all crew are to be inside in seatbelts if not engaged in direct firefighting....
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This is a public forum and I think those that look after this site would rather we did not discuss CFS/SES/MFS/SAAS issues.. W
LMAO
Not discuss CFS/SES/MFS/SAAS issues. Have you not seen any post on this forum
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Seatbelts installed on the crew decks.....since when....not on our 6 month old truck, or the 4 year old truck before that, not since the old single cab 24's.
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I did not mention crew decks????? but where a brigade has a CREW CAB then the crew is reuired to wear seatbelts and on Single cabins where the crew sits in the crew deck they should also wear seatbelts where fitted... I dont think I have ever seen a 24 or a 34 single cab crew deck without seatbelts....
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had the driver done SORDT or DVUOC ?
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I did not mention crew decks????? but where a brigade has a CREW CAB then the crew is reuired to wear seatbelts and on Single cabins where the crew sits in the crew deck they should also wear seatbelts where fitted... I dont think I have ever seen a 24 or a 34 single cab crew deck without seatbelts....
The vehicle in question, does not have seats or restraints on the crew deck. That was the point being discussed Bill.
I would be interested to know if the driver had completed SORDT or whether it would have made any differance. End of the day, just another person that did not know there vehicles limitations. Cos gee... if a 3 tonne 14 can make it, my 12 [??] tonne 34 must be able too :roll:
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Why do brigades continue to go off road in poor wet conditions during winter, they are driving trucks not the old bash around 4x4. I would refuse to go in an appliance with incompetent and clearly negligent drivers and officers that keep putting crews in these situations.
Even during summer in a fire situation people seem to think i have a 4wd truck lets go off road, summer can be just as bad, i am waiting for more people to get stuck when a fire decides to come up their backside and they end up not making it home due to poor choices.
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cos it's called driver TRAINING.....because we all know no-one ever has to actually drive an appliance on a job in the wet....or on a sandy track...or heaven forbid on the dirt...when the winter jobs come in someone else will do it wont they???....seriously some of you people should stay at home in your nice safe air conditioned comfort and knit
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There is a difference between criticising and asking questions about the circumstances of an incident.
Why were they there?
Why was someone standing on the crew deck?
Was formal training (SORDT) undertaken?
Are they aware of the SOPs?
These are all good questions. Ones that we can glean information from to ensure things improve, and that the greater CFS community is reminded of SOPs and better educated if they dont know what the problem was.
To blindly suggest that they should not have been there in the first place is not fair to any parties involved.
Im not particularly fussed if someone has their feeling hurt, provided it can be well justified, rather than off the cuff and uninformed.
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misterteddy does the CFS not provide approved 4WD training for all it's members at an approved training site??? Yes you still go to calls in winter and off the road but you are no good to the people with the emergency if you roll your truck on the way...
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misterteddy does the CFS not provide approved 4WD training for all it's members at an approved training site???
No. Nor do they offer adequate defensive driving courses, or courses/assessments on how to drive/operate each different appliance in service. There is no driver training structure in the CFS and it stinks that it is still left upto Brigades to "train" drivers in emergency response driving. Got an MR license? Here, drive this 16 ton truck P1!
Recipe for disaster? You bet.
Drive vehicles under operational conditions is a good step forward... but its perhaps more of a shuffle than a step.
Honestly, I think there is little wrong with the above pictures. Yeah someone screwed up, but 100 points for actually getting out there, getting dirty and TRAINING. Hopefully the driver got something from the experience (not just some poo in the pants).
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misterteddy does the CFS not provide approved 4WD training for all it's members at an approved training site???
as numbers said...nope, not provided to all drivers...still based on SFEC minumum driver numbers (6 or 8 per Brigade or something like that from memory). In addition, a snippet of formal training on a dry not overly challenging dirt track does not confer competence to pilot a fire appliance in all weather over all terrain....for that we have continuation driver training. Don't make the standard CFS assumption that completing a single event course = fully competent....absolutly does not.
Yes you still go to calls in winter and off the road but you are no good to the people with the emergency if you roll your truck on the way...
No argument there, which is why we do the above....we train bowling hose, we train shipping standpipes, we train in RCR, we train with ladders, why is it such a heinous crime to train to arrive so we can do all those other things. Not all training goes to plan.....thats why we train.
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misterteddy does the CFS not provide approved 4WD training for all it's members at an approved training site???
as numbers said...nope, not provided to all drivers...still based on SFEC minumum driver numbers (6 or 8 per Brigade or something like that from memory).
Technically mate, if you havent done SORDT then your not a 'brigade driver' since it is compulsory... so to say it is not provided to all 'drivers' may be true, but it means there not allowed to drive CFS appliances from my perception of all paperwork i have seen [at least to/at/from incidents anyway]... and yes i know thats not 'real world' friendly.
By the way minimum numbers of drivers are worked out per appliance not per brigade, same as CABA operators worked out per air set, etc.
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I think you are mistaken Alex....
firstly, SORD hasnt existed since the start of the year. It has now been replaced by a day course with Access training who deliver the PUAVEH001B Drive vehicles under operational conditions Unit of Competence.
The newsletter in Feb 10 http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/site/training/newsletters.jsp (http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/site/training/newsletters.jsp) describes neither SORD nor the PUA course as NOT being a pre-requisite for driving a CFS appliance. Additionally, as outlined in the newsletter, the CFS still has 25% of its SFEC limit drivers (thats 4 per appliance per Brigade) that havent done any training - would you make a rule that you know 25% arent meeting- technical or otherwise??
As for the number of drivers..... Yes its per appliance, but who has the appliance - the Brigade! If your Brigade miraculously gets an additional appliance out of the goodness of the Region Commanders heart, and the neighbouring Brigade is over the stupid 4 drivers per appliance number.....do they get brought into drive it? No, your Brigade gets an increase. BA operators are the same, based on the Standard stowage numbers of the appliance type...per BRIGADE.....by the way
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Misterteddy i stand corrected then, i have never seen any newsletters that the CFS issue?? Nor any update to the info first realeased when SORDT came into existence.
Yes the minimun drivers is per brigade in that sense, but still based on number of appliances within said brigade, not the blanket 6-8 figure per brigade you had come up with before. Perhaps i missunderstood your previous post.
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cos it's called driver TRAINING.....because we all know no-one ever has to actually drive an appliance on a job in the wet....or on a sandy track...or heaven forbid on the dirt...when the winter jobs come in someone else will do it wont they???....seriously some of you people should stay at home in your nice safe air conditioned comfort and knit
Yes the CFS could improve they way it delivers training in this field agreed
You've all hit the nail on the head it is training therefore you do not put the crew of the appliance at risk and if you want to practice driving in wet conditions you do a risk assessment by assesing the track etc. As you have time as it's training so you mitigate the chance of any incidents where you could damage the appliance or put your crew in harms way.
You don't need all the courses in the world to have a bit of common sense!
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seriously some of you people should stay at home in your nice safe air conditioned comfort and knit
:roll: