Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - 6739264

Pages: 1 ... 65 66 67 [68] 69 70
1676
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 04, 2007, 09:48:40 AM »
You seem to think that every incident has the ability to cause the four horsemen of the apocalypse to come storming down the main street with death carrying his sickle close behind. This is simply not the case.

"It's a Mr Death or something... he's come about the reaping"

(ignore me, please continue the pointless arguing)


Nothings pointless when Mr. Death is involved. Now just imagine that SitRe(a)p...

1677
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS Rope Rescue brigades
« on: September 04, 2007, 09:35:07 AM »
Its an old chestnut, but still odd, that the SES is getting trained in C/S, yet the gear you should have eg: BA sets and Gas Detectors and pretty fire service specific. 

1678
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 04, 2007, 09:32:23 AM »
Look if more trucks that is really necessary respond who cares. keep 1 K3 and use the extra crew. if you start saying "go home we don;t need you one truck is already there then one day nobody will turn up for calls." If i need assistance for whatever reason i don't really care if i get a whole group it is still help.

Mate, it just looks silly see multiple appliances turning up when they don't need to be. We tout an attempt at professionalism, yet look like dads army out for some excitement when the pager goes off.


Don't we already look like dads army in our under funded over weight 24s? :-D if the reason we shouldn't allow more than 2 appliances to go is because it "looks silly" well please come up with a better reason. Because the day somebody dies and there was the chance they might not of if each brigade had brought their appliance that was on standby at the station. I will not want to be the one in court saying "i didn't respond them because it would have looked silly if it hadn't been a real fire"

You obviously have very little understanding about the way in which incidents work, especially in terms of the responding of resources.

Let say that it a nasty looking day in the middle of the fire danger season, the pagers go off, a reported grass fire in a know local bad area. Of course you are going send as many trucks per station as you can because in the case of a grass fire on a bad day, then yeah it does help to have as many appliances there as possible.

But how many times does that really happen? Not that often.

You seem to think that every incident has the ability to cause the four horsemen of the apocalypse to come storming down the main street with death carrying his sickle close behind. This is simply not the case.

A huge number of the jobs that the SACFS attend can be dealt with with a minimum of appliances. Most of the time, dual responding is only there to cover the possibility of one brigade being unable to turnout, or not having enough trained persons to respond correctly. Of course if you are a rescue brigade and need more operators, take that second truck.

Keep in mind that in terms of your argument that "Oh god if the whole group doesn't turn out, people will die" It takes your average CFS brigade 5 minutes to get out the door, 5 - 10 minutes traveling time to the job (stupidly larger in rural areas) add in a couple of minutes for Call receipt, not to mention that many fires don't get reported straight away and you are looking at the best part of 15-20 minutes. Just how well is that bloke stuck in a burning house going to be going? Yeah, not so well.

I know you're a young'un bittenyakka, and I felt the same way when I was younger, wanting to get on a truck, wanting to get to every job no matter how small. But its just not needed.

It so much easier to work with a smaller crew than every man and his dog.

1679
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 03, 2007, 09:40:57 PM »
Look if more trucks that is really necessary respond who cares. keep 1 K3 and use the extra crew. if you start saying "go home we don;t need you one truck is already there then one day nobody will turn up for calls." If i need assistance for whatever reason i don't really care if i get a whole group it is still help.

Mate, it just looks silly see multiple appliances turning up when they don't need to be. We tout an attempt at professionalism, yet look like dads army out for some excitement when the pager goes off.

And to clarify the term "Group response plans" I mean response plans that the group draws up. Of course I don't mean that you turn out the whole group first then look outside. If a group determines that it needs two brigades to be responded to *everything* to get the two appliances required, like many do, thats what that group does. If the group, such as Heysen (where Mt.Barker can crew two applainces by itself) determines that it only needs one brigade turned out, for two applainces then thats what that group does.

Its not only at the station that there needs to be a bit more common sense, these forums could do with a big dose.

1680
SA Firefighter General / Re: Seaford Responses
« on: September 03, 2007, 09:29:49 PM »
that is my understanding we run it that way out here even with the SES as rescue if its in our RESCUE area then we take primary with CFS suporrt how ever if it is NON SES task for example assisting with a tree down in CFS area even though our SES area is quite large and covers a lot of CFS area we act as a suport resorse.

If its a rescue job in a CFS brigades area, its their primary call.
Quote
please correct me if i am wrong but isnt the primary brigade the one that is resposible for that area unless it is a RCR where rescue is required.

Dual response area's  makes it an over-complicated situation .

Not really, each brigade should have its *own* area.

1681
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 03, 2007, 06:25:46 PM »
there is no limit on what can be sent to a first alarm incident, but i guess it should come down to common sense for some part of it..

Yes there is, as it then becomes higher than a first alarm. You don't have 6 pumps at a job and still call it a first alarm.


kind of thinking without typing there... or vice versa ;)

your right 6793264 - i kind of meant, there is no limit to how many resources can be dispatched from stations on the first alarm... kind of a brain fart.

And there lies the problem. Brigades should limit themselves based on their groups response plans. Two brigades responded to an MVA (non rescue) then one truck each is great!

1682
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 03, 2007, 05:53:22 PM »
there is no limit on what can be sent to a first alarm incident, but i guess it should come down to common sense for some part of it..

Yes there is, as it then becomes higher than a first alarm. You don't have 6 pumps at a job and still call it a first alarm.

I personally think that any MVA, be single or multiple vehicle that has more than one person reported trapped should be automatically a 1st and 2nd rescue response.

I think you'll find that in the Green Book, there are provisions for when additional rescue resources should be turned out. What on earth are another crew going to do on a single car where you already have a full crew working? Two cars, two entrapments, then yes, you should have two crews. One for each car.

1683
SA Firefighter General / Re: Seaford Responses
« on: September 03, 2007, 04:14:56 PM »
Not necessarily. Look at rescue responses. The primary rescue brigade will be the first number on the pager, even when they are responding into another brigade or even groups area. This does not mean that it's a primary call for the rescue brigade involved.

1684
The Humour Zone / Re: Continuing Story #2
« on: September 02, 2007, 08:50:33 PM »
Thanks champ you filtered that up in about 5 seconds flat. Please note, from first post:

"Continue the sentence from the previous post, and end your post mid sentence."

So to get the ball rolling...

Volunteers feel misunderstood because their paid counterparts...

1685
OFF Topic / Re: Horse Flu
« on: September 02, 2007, 06:32:00 PM »
exactly as it sounds. Horse flu, horses get sick, can't race, weaker ones die, no races = no money for the racing industry = bad times.

1686
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 02, 2007, 05:36:17 PM »
You do realise that the only way in which your response plans are going to change is with SAMFS turning out to everything in their (currently your) area.

I'd like to know how you can fix crewing issues in 6 mothns... Got a bunch of green probies on the trucks or something?

1687
SA Firefighter General / Re: Fires in Greece
« on: September 02, 2007, 04:51:26 PM »
I wonder if they're taught about the dead man zone in Europe...

They are. Dead Man Zone = Outside the fire station

1688
SA Firefighter General / Re: Seaford Responses
« on: September 02, 2007, 04:50:27 PM »
Ok, CFS only response. The point of only turning out one truck per brigade still stands champ :)

You don't see SAMFS empty 20 stn. to a 'bin alight' just because they can, do you?

1689
The Humour Zone / Re: Continuing Story #2
« on: September 02, 2007, 03:07:17 PM »
...undermined by the introduction of such apparently 'rescue qualified' services like the SES..

1690
Country Fire Service / Re: Number of trucks to jobs
« on: September 02, 2007, 02:50:58 PM »
Aren't they one and the same?

1691
SA Firefighter General / Re: Seaford Responses
« on: September 02, 2007, 02:50:24 PM »
The point I'm trying to get across is that if you have multiple brigades going, you don't need to empty your station, just because you can.

1692
The Humour Zone / Re: Continuing Story #2
« on: September 02, 2007, 01:41:43 PM »
...there was such a thing as Alarm Response Protocols...

1693
Terrorism / Re: APEC
« on: September 02, 2007, 12:10:50 PM »
*shakes in disbelief*

1694
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS Rope Rescue brigades
« on: September 02, 2007, 12:10:07 PM »
You have to wonder why the CFS don't add C/S gear to the brigades already rope rescue trained. It's not a whole lot more. Although you've then got to issue those brigades with gas detectors if they don't have them.

1695
There goes their once in a lifetime big job. Surprisingly, sounds like they pulled it off well.

1696
Terrorism / APEC
« on: September 02, 2007, 11:25:00 AM »
So how about we start a book on the odds of a Terror attack during APEC?

I want to know:

WHAT
WHERE
WHO
WHY

Ill start!

WHAT: Release of Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis
WHERE: On the public transport system (eg: Trains) for maximum casualties.
WHO: Racing New South Wales, led by known radical Peter V'Landys
WHY: To highlight the impact of Equine Influenza on the nation, and the plight of those horses infected.


Enjoy!

1697
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS Rope Rescue brigades
« on: September 02, 2007, 11:16:33 AM »
how do you set up the hooker line? Do you have a facemask/waistbelt set up? Or do you have to have the CABA on, just with the hooker line in the side?

1698
SA Firefighter General / Seaford Responses
« on: September 02, 2007, 11:01:04 AM »
i think it would be more reasonable to say that 2 brigades should be sent because CFS is a volunteer resource and hence can't guarantee a full crew  then at least there will be 4 crew between the 2 brigades.

If there are 4 crew BETWEEN 2 brigades, neither are rolling a truck. Well, except Piccadilly that will happily take their 14 to building fires - Go figure...


Not to take this thread too far off track, well moreso than it already is, but how about we all just stop and have a look at the bigger picture.

Turnout for something serious, like a house alight, is, usually, two trucks. In most areas (Mt. Barker being the only exception I can think of) two brigades are responded to ensure a two appliance response. This is similar for most incidents.

I've been present at the Mt. Lofty Summit visitor center when Stirling, Aldgate and Piccadilly have been turned out for an alarm. Its beyond funny to see 5 appliances turn up, because everyone gets a good crew. Wow look, throw in an Aerial and a Rescue and you've got a third alarm for an AFA... Why not call in the Comms bus as well. Maybe notify the RC 'just in case'.

Of course this is going to change according to calls and conditions. Lets say you get turned out to an alarm, shed fire, domestic fire (something pretty normal) you get a crew of 4, 2xCABA on your first appliance out the door, then a couple more show up at the station, but the second responded station is already on the road, you don't need to take that second truck from the first station. There are already two trucks on the road, you don't need a third. Liase with the second station, see how many BA operators they have on board. Wait for the initial SitRep.. filtered hitting the fan? Then get that truck out the door.

It goes without saying that someone will pull up some example of how they went to a job once with all the group because it was a training night and it was lucky they all turned out because the job needed 1000 people. But this is not the case normally. Not every house fire goes to a second alarm. Two pumps, two lines of 38 should do most stock standard house fires.

I'm just asking that people use their heads. Grass fire on a not so bad day? If its in a known bad area, yeah maybe take an extra truck P2. Most things don't need more than two trucks. Thats what we have an Alarm Response procedure for. Does it say "Initial Response: As many as you can get"? No, it doesn't. Go read it.

To go back to the Seafood example, its a rubbish fire. Generally this is going to be some shitty little fire that you can extinguish with a HP line, no worries. You had MFS going, thats one truck guaranteed, and TWO CFS brigades... thats generally another two trucks. You still don't need a hundred trucks from one station.

I don't know about you, but I love it when a CFS appliance rocks up, 4 crew get off, get to work, a second appliance arrives minutes later, 4 crew get off, get to work, everyone is doing something. I hate, and feel rather embarrassed when half the group arrives, all under lights and sirens, then either stand around doing nothing or try having 100 people doing the job of 8. It looks tacky and unprofessional. Many people, especially on these boards go on about how we are just as professional as SAMFS, but when you look like dads army at a job and are worse rubberneckers than the general public, 'Professionalism' is the last thing that springs to mind.

So, in short, Alarm Response Protocol. GO READ IT.

1699
Country Fire Service / Re: CFS Rope Rescue brigades
« on: September 02, 2007, 08:45:35 AM »
Whats the general consensus on minimum rope rescue equipment.

I mean, theres not much you cant do with a harness, 100m of 11mm rope, a harpoon friction device, a couple of tape slings and a rescue sling...

1700
SA Firefighter General / Seaford Responses
« on: September 01, 2007, 12:39:38 PM »
...So at the most you should be getting 3 appliances to a rubbish fire, where is the fourth coming from??

Two trucks from Seaford, one from Morphett Vale & one from MFS.

They drove past me while I was parked on Commercial Road.

Theres your problem... Seafood don't need to be responding two trucks to a rubbish fire when they know that there is another 2 appliances coming.

No, not at all. It's our area so we send our two units and stop any other oncoming units if they are not needed. It's SEAFORD too, idiot. The problem that did exist as Captain has explained is that we were low on members, which was fixed a couple of months ago. But due to that poor membership level, MV and MFS were both put on dual response with us. Which is now no longer needed, we have requested to get it taken off. But as of yet it still stands.

Two appliances to a rubbish fire? It's a RUBBISH FIRE "idiot".

If you can't hit that with one truck, you've got issues.

Pages: 1 ... 65 66 67 [68] 69 70
anything