SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Country Fire Service => Topic started by: tft on May 23, 2009, 01:28:51 PM
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Watch this space :evil:
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:O...cmon spill dammit.
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how has a left wing media outlet with a bias towards ordinary reporting practices got any place in this forum....
....oh........right.....
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Just a few people that have some passion about the CFS.
Watch this thread exploded. For good reasons
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:O...cmon spill dammit.
Strike a pose! :-D
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Pose Striked! Jaff whats ya mobile no, ill pxt it to ya!
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Well we told you to watch this space :-D
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25528939-5006301,00.html
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Agree with some points.
Disagree with many others.
I can't remember the last time I did a fundraiser, we certainly get everything we need from out budget and all our trucks are under 3 years old.
No offence Stirling, but maybe CFS are trying to tell you something, you don't need that truck, in fact probably don't need half your trucks. Sometimes we need to swallow our pride and realise that the days of staffing 5 trucks are gone, sometimes lucky to staff 1 truck ! (don't deny it, its true!) Isn't there 5 other tankers within a short distance, my group has 1 tanker, the next group doesn't have any, and we have some dodgy terrain.
I do agree with the massive shift to rural only and hang the fact that we do any urban work. The training for the urban stuff seems to be grudgingly given and gleefully cancelled.
Agree with the paging thing, the pagers are old and it takes forever to get them, can't seem to get new one's very easily, the CFS seems to rely on the fact that most still work.
I agree with Heysen Group Officer, how can a brigade like Mt Barker, given the area they cover, not have Air Bags, that just smacks of CFS not wanting to be professional, who they gonna call, its not like every rescue needs them. Then again they cancelled RCR courses for a year to replace some ashphalt.....come on !!
CFS doesn't seem to be agressive with its push for funding, if I have worked it out, we don't have the ability to replace the fleet we have before some trucks reach the 20/25 yr age limit. Stop wasting money on fancing aircraft. The air crane isn't going to help us get out on the street.
I hope the SFEC reveiw is given full support, I know it is being worked on as we speak. A lot of brigades have truck they don't need, I think we all need to have a look at ourselves and say "are we able to crew these vehicles, and are we just holding onto our empires"
I think something needed to be said, but again, can't say I agree with all of it.
No wonder RC 1 didn't want CFS or MFS staff halding rank in the CFS, hahahahaha :evil:
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A article tha makes for some good reading shame they did not get the brigade name right its STEWARTS RANGE in region 5 and i took the photos that went along with the article and it did take 5 mins to open the station doors and the white ants are having a very big party out there.
Our group is to get two new stations in 2009/2010 year at Binnum and Kybybolite but only after some harsh action was taken where the appliances where kept,In other words Binnum has had no station as such for 6 months as where the appliance was kept was on private land and the farmer has been waiting for CFS to move the station so he can expand his farm. So with CFS taking no action the brigade was forced to find a home in a hay shed and is still there today till CFS build a new station. How ever so as they can get a station CFS is cutting back what you get so all those flash rural stations that they where built over the past 2 years are a thing of the past so rural brigade's will just get a shed and if you want a meeting room you have to pay for it yourself....
As for air bags the Naracoorte brigade had to replace their two air bags some 2 years ago as they where bought by the community the brigade had to pay half the cost of replacing them and region paid the rest. Raffles still go on in the community to raise funds for the basics,toilets,running water,and so on.....May be the article should have also had a section on the over weight new appliances that are waiting to be sent out to brigades and i think one of the hill's groups who have one of these new appliances has sent a letter to the region and H/Q about it...about it.....
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meehh i tend to agree grow up a bit....u want old clapped out trucks...head across to victoria and ull see old n clapped out.....
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Hear Hear Bill,
The only correction that I I think needs to be made beyond the all ready said SFEC comment is that it not a lack of vision or funding to towards the more urban brigade to the rural brigades rather to the agricultural brigades as some more of the remote brigades are provided with tokens to satisfy them. My brigade questions these norms. As we were only given a last week a branch finally to go the end of our 38's after 10 five years of pushing for it.
Yes we still hold raffles when we can and we do go to public events to raffle a tin to buy things like water as we don't drink the orange sludge that comes out of the taps
I am hoping that the review of the SFEC will produce a document that looks after remote communities whose back up is nearly fifty minutes away.
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One Word: WOW.
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What happens to the volunteers who don't have pages-how do they get contacted?
If i'm going to pay an emergency levy, i want trucks and gear replaced when required :wink:.
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I agree bill,
we need to get away from building "great monuments" for fire stations for brigades that average less than 10 calls a year.(ie there one in the south east that would put most stations that have been built in the last few years for a lot more active brigades to shame)
On the other hand we shouldn't just "plonk" a shed down for these brigades.
"basic" facilities need to be provided for the members as we need to attract members and retain them.
i.e. there would be no incentive for people to train or remain around if you have to pull the truck out every time to have an area to train in or lay the gear out or just sit around and talk etc in.
Off the top of my head i think the minimum for any station needs to be a 2 bay "shed".
One bay for the appliance and the other split for a toilet/ kitchen area and a open area for training, lay out area etc.
This would provide the basics for all brigades to function in some comfort. Also in some areas as the brigades are the focal points for the area, who knows they might just attract new members. :-D
My hope, like malleefire is that the review of the SFEC does cover ALL brigades fairly and we end up with a workable document that progresses this organisation in future years.
cheers
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Congrats McLeod on 300 games...
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It should also be noted the photo in the article is not a HILL'S brigade but the STEWARTS RANGE shed here in region 5. I was asked this week to take that photo along with a few more of stations down here in the SOUTH EAST that are well over due on upgrading. i think all rural stations should be one/two bay with a meeting room ,toilet,store room and have heating and air con that way you might find with a new station and some basic needs new members will join but also some members might start training again...
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Do you really think a brigade that does <10 calls a year will start doing more training if we give them a small mansion to use? are you sure it isn;t a needs based training schedule?
Lets just watch this review and see what happens.
I do wonder how it costs onyl 5.6 mill to run the normal operational needs of a brigade out of a budget of over 50mil.
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Is it really too much to ask for a brigade to have the basics - a toilet, hand washing facilities, a heater for use during winter.....?
There are a number of brigades around with suitable facilities (they may want bigger & better, but what they have is adequate for their needs.)
Many do not.
I know my winter training numbers would increase, if the station had a heater capable of heating the training room..... I have members who have told me that will not attend training because it is too cold in the station.
My community is only 500 people - and has a cricket team, local primary school, local hall and soccer and footy team with the adjoining locality, to support.
Trying to fundraise within my community is difficult...particularly when people already pay their ESL.....
The State Govt is getting a fire service on the cheap - there are still a number of CFS stations that are on private property, and remain there on the goodwill of the local farmer - with a peppercorn rent. A (supposedly) fully Govt funded service taking advantage of the goodwill of the local community...10 years after the ESL came in....
Pip
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couldnt agree more Pip hit nail right on head....as for having to fundraise for equiptment surely it is beyond standard stowage equiptment??
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Some perspective to the discussion from a senior volunteer out side of the "Adelaide Hills"
J Blunt
We have one of the best fleets of emergency vehicles in the country / world, they are well serviced and maintained. I don't see vehicles breaking down on the way to incidents (like in Ash Wednesday), and yes some will give trouble now and then - so does my own car - "risking lives" - I doubt that! The task of manageing the bigest vehicle fleet in the government is onerous for the resources allocated, lets not bag the people trying their hardest to give us the best in vehicles / equipment / training etc. Funding will always be a issue in any agency. We don't need the latest and greatest, we need what is practicable and reliable and within the corporate guidelines. There is more to SA than the Adelaide Hills and todays article would not supported by all brigades / groups.
Posted by: Mark Hewitson of Ceduna 1:08pm today
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Still is it not reasonable to review the SFECs and increase what stowage CFS will supply?
Or can we come up with a better system of Discriminating between brigades who need more of this equipment than others?
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Some perspective to the discussion from a senior volunteer out side of the "Adelaide Hills"
J Blunt
We have one of the best fleets of emergency vehicles in the country / world, they are well serviced and maintained. I don't see vehicles breaking down on the way to incidents (like in Ash Wednesday), and yes some will give trouble now and then - so does my own car - "risking lives" - I doubt that! The task of manageing the bigest vehicle fleet in the government is onerous for the resources allocated, lets not bag the people trying their hardest to give us the best in vehicles / equipment / training etc. Funding will always be a issue in any agency. We don't need the latest and greatest, we need what is practicable and reliable and within the corporate guidelines. There is more to SA than the Adelaide Hills and todays article would not supported by all brigades / groups.
Posted by: Mark Hewitson of Ceduna 1:08pm today
you don't get out much.......
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Dear John,
Not comming from one of the regions that is mentioned in the article and being from a region that is a lot like the quote that you posted and having first hand knowledge of the station at Ceduna. Not to bag Ceduna but it is the small town or village brigades that are suffering in the outer regions. Some of the things that I have noticed include the expansion of a group base where the training room is approx 120 sq m and the purchase of an industrial ice machine was done. With Brigades only just down the road with acro props holding the ceiling ups or shoring to stop the wall from collapsing or electrical systems that burn fuses and power point that arc, or water to the station that has the consistency of orange juice sludge.
Yes you are right the fleet is maintained but are the volunteers happy with being treated poorly. Any seasoned volunteer know the frustration that comes from recruiting and retaining members. If the environment is not right then it will see people loose interst they will not attend if is to cold like Pips example. If is not for the volunteers where will the CFS be or do we have enough volunteers in the service and this is the new culling tool being provided for by the govt.
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I read the article with interest & as usual it focused on the same issues.
The CFS in SA & the volunteer emergency services in SA are not the only ones who have these problems, other states have fire appliances stored in sheds on farms, courses are cancelled, trucks are old or nonexistent(we have 25 members & 1 4x4 dual cab). And if you guys saw the news today 5 volunteers were injured while serving their community in NSW. Why? mechanical breakdown, it happens!
And not to turn up for training because its cold is well BS, afterall don't you get wet & cold out doing your job?
And the NSWFB guys(retained) don't even have pagers that tell them the details, like the SA ones - just its a fire call. Victoria doesn't have an integrated radio system.
And yeah we run raffles, beg for money, go without & this unit didn't have a home for 35 years! I have come to realise just how lucky we were in SA you don't see too many new appliances around here. Old Accos = VRA :wink:
So yep the situation isn't heaven but as we say around here "suck it up princess & get on with it!"
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Just a question is this article a breach of the code of conduct?
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And not to turn up for training because its cold is well BS, afterall don't you get wet & cold out doing your job?
They come out for calls - in the cold & wet...but they don't see why they should suffer in the cold, when they don't have to.
And to have a mouldy & damp training room, as well as cold in not a pleasant place to be.... hence some choose not to come to winter training.
After all, we are volunteers, and have a choice about what we do.
Pip
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If I wanted to join the CFS and went to Pip's station (not being rude)in the middle of winter, I would think why bother.
Great people with a crappy station. Just like most of the CFS stations
Have a look at some of the new CFA stations getting built.
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If I wanted to join the CFS and went to Pip's station (not being rude)in the middle of winter, I would think why bother.
Great people with a crappy station. Just like most of the CFS stations
Have a look at some of the new CFA stations getting built.
Nice example smaller volunteer Brigade station in CFA: http://www.ozfire.org/files/porepunkah_2008_small_968.jpg (http://www.ozfire.org/files/porepunkah_2008_small_968.jpg)
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If I wanted to join the CFS and went to Pip's station (not being rude)in the middle of winter, I would think why bother.
Great people with a crappy station.
You got it in one TFT.
Pip
PS The rat bait around the place isn't too welcoming either :-o
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Chook um we are talking about a fire service that supposedly is funded by the emergency services levy, WE ARE NOT talking about other states here!!
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A few points if I may.
SFEC is supposed to be a statement of the absolute minimum crewing & equipping
required by a brigade to respond to the normal risks in its area. Treating it
as a "maximum that we are required to pay for" is an abuse of its intent.
The snide remark about "small mansions" is ridiculous & uncalled for. What is
needed are a heap of basic sheds with basic ablutions facilities and suitable
enviroment to teach members the myriad stuff we are required to know.
This isn't about the Adelaide Hills. That's just a convenience for the 'Tiser.
And a willingness by Hills Groupies to speak up. It's about whole-of-CFS
funding. It is necessarily in the public arena because funding to the Service
is a political decision. Only public shaming will prod this government into
allocating the funding for CFS to do its job fully. Including building or
replacing something like 180+ stations throughout wider SA which desperately
need it. Your station might be ok. There are plenty which are junk. How about
helping those brigades rather than knocking those who are trying to?
Further, there is absolutely NO "having a go" at staff in this. Staff are
impacted even worse by lack of funds than brigades are. There are not nearly
enough of them to do the work they are legally required to do. Across all
regions & functional areas.
Breach of code of conduct?? Bollocks!!
More like a case of the Emperor's new clothes!
cheers
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The CFS's reply http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25532874-2682,00.html
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So yep the situation isn't heaven but as we say around here "suck it up princess & get on with it!"
Hey Chookster, love your quote..........it will be back at ya, sooner than you know it :wink:
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The CFS's reply http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25532874-2682,00.html
What a load of .... in some respects. 1 Respect is: Yes theres too much in one area, and not enough in others.
Stirling i see is a very good position to have the roughly 4 or 5 appliances. They are pretty much going to be the ones fighting the fire and delivering the water to the upper sturt crew's....if Belair national park goes up....all at the same time.
Give them 4 trucks that work...and in time theyll have enough crew to roll with a minimun of 2 or more at anytime.
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is it not simple....the trucks in question are brigade owned. (ie they raised the money and put it together) CFS says they will not replace it because its above the minimal requirements of the area. END OF STORY!!
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Then it goes to the question: What are the minimum requirements of the area, and what determines the requirement of the area AND when was a review of the requirement of the area last performed, How often are reviews performed, and who performs them.
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Seems like Jaff you may be hinting at something that may be happening to a certain organisation in the near future?
If so the quote still stands - at the end of the day its all about service to the community & how that service is delivered (& by whom).
I understand that it may not be that nice meeting in dank, cold, training rooms or driving 10 year old appliances but you would have to admit the situation now is far better than 15 years ago.
Finally if what you are hinting at comes to pass, considering the current alleged problems with in the CFS - how will your organisation cope?
Remember they (government & business) usually "merge" things for "synergy" reasons (to save money) therefore I hope your not expecting a huge sudden increase in budget - me thinks you will be sorely disappointed :wink:
Master the other states have "funding arrangements" that still require the community to pay - just not as transparent as ESL - Therefore the comments are relevant - maybe that was a mistake on the part of the then SA government :wink:
Anyway Que Sera Sera :-)
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Stirling i see is a very good position to have the roughly 4 or 5 appliances. They are pretty much going to be the ones fighting the fire and delivering the water to the upper sturt crew's....if Belair national park goes up....all at the same time.
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I think Stirling have bitten off more then they can chew on this one, they struggle to get 1 truck out the door let alone crew 5 trucks...They would be way above their standards with 5 trucks. Give them a pumper, 34p and 24 maybe the group tanker and pention their old trucks off. One more little truck will not do anything when "THE BIG ONE" hits and you will be getting help from a lot more groups and regions when the time arises.
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Using your argument big bronto, Bringing Stirling down to 4 and Aldgate up to 3 might be an option. It would even up the "standards" and would become more realistic.
For Aldgate tho, they really kinda need a 4WD pumper that has a turbo for those long incline hills ;)
I want to see 2x CFA Light Pumper's Built for CFS trialing, placed at both Stirling & Aldgate. These light pumpers are the Canter style appliances with a Rosenbauer RH25 pump on the back....
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hmm...enough to warrant coming out of retirement for
Firstly, the article was a disappointment. Poorly written and lacking any justification for the public to engage in the debate, no compelling proof, no warranted examples - what happen to your argument about no $$$ for computers Rainer, and yet we're expected to complete fire reports, use them to page out to members, have to provide business and financial reports for Region and many use them for gaining real time weather info?....lost opportunities everywhere. I'm sorry if Kickatinalong Brigade cant sort out their door issue on their own....then i dont really want them on my fireground inside 5 minutes....let them cart water and sandwiches.
There wasnt a clear statement on what it was that the Gang of Four wanted....other than a couple of Brigade vehicles replaced, a door on a station, and some pagers....if thats the limit of the deficencies in the CFS....then we are in a great state.....and we al know thats not the case. Emotive argument never wins....facts, facts, facts......
Lost opportunities to present facts...% building growth in the Groups mentioned since the last review of SFEC, %percent of $$ spent per area covered, a $$$ value on the service provided against the cost of what they were wanting.
The argument here from the people concerned read as being against the CFS, and thats not a) fair, and b) correct. The material state of the Fleet statewide is far better than it was pre ESL. OVERALL the service is in a far better state than it was before.....BUT, that doesnt negate the issues that are being felt in the urban interface Groups that have real and compelling reasons for being concerned.
SFEC is a crap document, full of flaws, full of assumptions and questionable methodology. The resulting standards are certainly budget driven (ie its been engineered to fit within a certain budget). Predictably, CFS have rolled out the "we will only fund to SFEC position".....and this is what has to be addressed - reflect the flaws in this thinking, and compell and shame the Government into extra funding, but dont hammer the CFS they only play in the sandpit they are given....and as Alan mentions...they are affected more than most in the lack of $$$, but cant ever say it publiclly (until someone is approaching retirement and happy to hang their Kahunas out).
Overall....sadly, a missed opportunity that really smacks of whining a little....and lacks some hard unassailable facts to compel the public to think about it. Of course, some of this is due to the writer and the poor structure of the article (geez it wouldnt have passed my Yr 12 English teachers standard let alone supposedly coming fom someone supposedly with a Degree in Journalism)
A timely (??) media release on Friday regarding an increase in spending for the CFS..... lolol...oh sooo cynical, coincidence?...i think not..lol. Pity it took a Coroners Inquest to get $60,000 worth of radios (even the CFS Media attribute it to this...amazing :lol:)....what will it take to replce 180 sub standard Stations?
Finally....despite all my comments above, well done to the GOs concerned, it takes a great deal of gumption to put yourself in the firing line like you have, and at least 2 of you will be targetted personally as a result of the SLG push on holding dual rank. Make sure when u get the push...or at least any heat, that you make that public too......the Whistleblower Act is a good place to start and then the media - just get an editor on the case next time ...not a student journo
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Reply article http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25532874-2682,00.html
An extra facility to assist CFS Brigades http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25531810-2682,00.html
I cannot find the article on the residual money from the Goverment contingency fund being distributed.
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Chook um we are talking about a fire service that supposedly is funded by the emergency services levy, WE ARE NOT talking about other states here!!
Ummm he is talking about an emergency service in SA where action was taken against individuals for talking about issues.
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$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades. Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.
Or $373 per Volunteer out of the supposed 15,000 firefighters. soo, is this how much each volunteer is worth investing in?
wouldnt it be nice enough to increase Group/Brigade funding from $5.6 million to 7.5 million as a initial boost.
And increase Infrastructure Funding with another $5 million.
Investment in Infrastructure = Stimulation people! :evil: Stimulate building and mechancial jobs + stimulate volunteer's morale! How many Builders or Mechanics do you personally know that are CFS volunteers...
Time to rattle the Political voters feets again before the next election...
Zollo > Dud, Wright > heading towards Dud.
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Using your argument big bronto, Bringing Stirling down to 4 and Aldgate up to 3 might be an option. It would even up the "standards" and would become more realistic.
For Aldgate tho, they really kinda need a 4WD pumper that has a turbo for those long incline hills ;)
Always entertaining how some forum members can't help aimimng at just one or two brigades when there is a whole-of-Service issue under discussion.
Mister Teddy is right. The story lacked the punch it should have had.
Not through lack of facts, nor lack of presentation of facts, but because news
media basically rely on generating emotive responses in readers to sell their advertising space. The reporter *may* have faithfully recorded & written the facts.
only to have them discarded onto the junior sub-editor's assistant's waste bin...
A shame really. Will need to be a united push by CFS members to shame this
government into properly funding and resourcing the Service. Which won't
happen while some clowns keep sniping at individual brigades instead of
trying to improve their Service.
regards
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On the money about the story Mister Teddy
I would have liked the story to have more information eg The crappy fire stations, not just one station. Not much impact when you only talk about a few problems.
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Using your argument big bronto, Bringing Stirling down to 4 and Aldgate up to 3 might be an option. It would even up the "standards" and would become more realistic.
For Aldgate tho, they really kinda need a 4WD pumper that has a turbo for those long incline hills ;)
Always entertaining how some forum members can't help aimimng at just one or two brigades when there is a whole-of-Service issue under discussion.
Mister Teddy is right. The story lacked the punch it should have had.
Not through lack of facts, nor lack of presentation of facts, but because news
media basically rely on generating emotive responses in readers to sell their advertising space. The reporter *may* have faithfully recorded & written the facts.
only to have them discarded onto the junior sub-editor's assistant's waste bin...
A shame really. Will need to be a united push by CFS members to shame this
government into properly funding and resourcing the Service. Which won't
happen while some clowns keep sniping at individual brigades instead of
trying to improve their Service.
regards
Only trying to bring a small example into the SFEC discussion, Standards of Fire cover...is it a good standard to see a truck snail up hill? I dont live in that area..but i travel through it regularly. its an area where the CFS does need it invest its time and thoughts into. Some area's of the state are near-perfectly covered...while its inconsistency that brings the other area's into sub-standard's. The "Big-4" Region 1 Group's have the largest populations outside of the metropolitan area in this state to deal with in a Urban/Rural not Rural/Urban environment...
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$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades. Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.
this is the sort of stuff that gets a message to people....
Don't forget, $5.6 million for the entire CFS firefighting force of 15,000....Upwards of $2million for one MFS station, providing 4 people to an incident. Its (absolutely) not about getting the MFS cheaper stations .....just a recognition that CFS funding is inadequate, and a committment to improve it
Spread the word....CFSVA, where are you...lets make it happen
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a 2 minute search of Government media releases shows....
$8million to upgrade two railway stations(make prettier, not provide new ones mind you)
If the $2billion planned for the Rail Network upgrade over 10 years was made over 11 years, or was $1.95billion.....the operating budget for CFS Brigades could double
Spread the word.....find the facts....beat the Government at their own game
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Right now is the time for the Steam Train to put more wood in the fire... this better not derail like 98% of all other attempts.
This is like the Battle of Telstra..Aim: make a customer orientated business model...Likeihood: Never.
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quote annual report for 2007-2008
2007-08 Income - $62.1 million
Contributions from the Community Emergency Services Fund - $59.2 (95%)
CFS is primarily funded from the Community Emergency
Services Fund, which was established by the Emergency
Services Funding Act 1998. In 2007-08, the fund provided
$59.2 million to CFS.
Commonwealth Revenues - $1.3 million (2%)
The Commonwealth contributes to the cost of aerial fire
fighting through the National Aerial Firefighting Centre as
well as providing funding for service provision and
projects.
Revenues from fees and charges - $0.4 million (1%)
CFS received $0.4 million during the year for fees and
charges for services, relating primarily to training and
development assessments.
Other income - $1.2 million (2%)
Other income for 2007-08 includes increases in funds held by CFS Groups and Brigades from fundraising
activities and donations, interest, net proceeds from disposal of assets and other recoveries.
How much Spent?? $59 Million. $3.1 Million is where?
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Biggest point to raise out of this...$1.2 million was raised by the volunteers.
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i see there is now another media release from wendy shirley n ken shutz....Maybe just maybe some are right n we shuld unite for a better service right across the state.
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$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades. Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.
Someone is getting a lot of money then...my brigade, and the bulk of the ones in my group, don't even get close to $11965 each
Pip
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$11965 Per Brigade Per Annum...Average, to utilise $5.6 million on 468 brigades. Very unrealistic figure...but interesting enough.
The Brigade that I am from has only a budget on $3500 or $125 per member ncluding all the service that go into providing that service. Welcome to region 6
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I am only annoyed by the fact that CFS says there is no problem. Hmmmm
But I don't agree with Stirling's example. I think they need to think long and hard about the state things are in there and admit, hey, we can't crew 5 trucks, lets talk to CFS and reduce the fleet. I am sure if you said to CFS, take away my 27 yr old Tanker, 25 yr old 12, and 22 yr old rescue and give me a 34P, they would come to the party. They might even tranfer the tanker from Bradbury to Stirling.
What I am getting at, is things need to be looked at without so much, well this is what we have so we must need it.
I understand the SFEC's are being looked at. Things might change. I think our bosses need to push the envelope and ask for more money, spell it out to LABOR in black and white, we aren't keeping up with fleet replacement and station replacement.
LABOR, what are you going to do about it, I can survive without a tramline or O-Bahn!
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Does anyone expect that a station with 5 trucks could ever crew them all?
I agree with Darren that the top says the isn't a problem this seems a bit odd.
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I feel I should jump in here and set the record straight about Stirling as I can see some people have the wrong idea, and it's distracting from the issue at hand.
The article in the Sunday Mail was certainly not supposed to centre around Stirling. Stirling already have their fleet plan sorted out and (tentatively) agreed to by the CFS, and that plan does not involve 5 trucks. As a brigade, Stirling is fully aware that 5 trucks isn't necessarily or practical. (Although as far as crewing goes, don't forget you only need 16 FFs for the 5 trucks - a number easily filled on a bad fire day).
Unfortunately, because all the group officers decided to meet at Stirling station, Stirling's trucks got the centre of attention with stories and photos, which made the issue seem to be about Stirling, when it's not. The brigades complaining that they need appliances replaced are Upper Sturt and Bridgewater, with their 12 and 14s respectively. (Plus of course the other issues that have been discussed in this thread).
The photos of Stirling's trucks, and the focus of Stirling on ABC News was probably not the best tactic, and I hope that next time they use another station which won't leave the issue they're driving so ambiguous.
I also find it very disappointing that the CFS corporate has refused to acknowledge there's a lack of funding, they should be taking every opportunity available to take more funding, even if they do think we don't need it.
Unfortunately, I think the issue will simply die down in the media, leaving the public thinking that Mt Lofty Group is a bunch of whingers and the CFS has no problems at all...
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I think you will find the O-Bahn extention is federally funded, not state. Also in early parts of the thread some of you mentioned rail projects - again federal not state (its all part of the stimulus package). And with a mass exodus of people out of SA - due to the lack of rain & work, the ESL collection as well as other fund raising ideas (taxes) will reduce - so where do you thing the government is going to get the money from?
The problem is people are not prepared to sacrifice something for the grater good, every town must have a hospital/school/other public funded amenities. The ESL was always a political point scoring exercise by a previous government,(to get a certain group on side) it was never going to fully fund the emergency services. So unless there is an increase in the levy - where will they get the cash? Or what are the services going to give up? Maybe less "sheds", lower specced equipment? The aircraft? As I said previously, your not that hard done by & yes the situation could be improved but remember a third of your state wasn't turned black or under several metres of water so the governments focus is else where :wink: And if the CFS is refusing to acknowledge a lack of funding - what is that saying? maybe the funding is right but just miss spent?
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I think you will find the O-Bahn extention is federally funded, not state. Also in early parts of the thread some of you mentioned rail projects - again federal not state (its all part of the stimulus package). And with a mass exodus of people out of SA - due to the lack of rain & work, the ESL collection as well as other fund raising ideas (taxes) will reduce - so where do you thing the government is going to get the money from?
Chook, simply you're wrong. The money I referred to in my post for rail infrastructure upgrading was State money in the last budget, quite separate from the Ruddy-munny Federal Drunken Sailor Splash. As for an exodus from SA, quite the opposite, SA has reported a small growth in the population as at Dec 08 (Health Dept figures). So unlike NSW, not all is doom and gloom in SA, in fact overall, things arent too bad in our little end of the world (apart from those filtered that steal our water upstream :evil:)
The ESL was always a political point scoring exercise by a previous government,(to get a certain group on side)
funnily enough, I was of the opinion that the ESL was actually proposed by the sector (especially CFS to overcome inadequate and piecemeal funding from recalcitrant councils). The book on the CFS devotes a part of one chapter to it. Interesting reading.
I'm sure sitting in Leeton that $50 million looks like sufficient funding, and the easy answer is to just expect less infrastructure (I mean who needs toilets so long as u can get the local Landcare group with their State funded trees to plant an outdoor loo or two at the back of the station), and less capable equipment (Rainer mentioned being told to buy an axe when they asked for a chainsaw - you sure you don't work for the CFS in your spare time Chook???) - but at the end of the day, the public outside of the CBD deserve exactly the same level of service as those that crowd the space near the beach. If suddenly Mt Barker became an MFS station, then the level of funding for the provision of fire and rescue services in that area would increase exponentially ( apart from wages), thats just not equitable.
As for aircraft, thats one thing we cant bitch about in the funding arguement, most of them are paid for by the Federal Gov, and the Skycrane was additional supplementary funding by the State Gov. A waste of money yes......but its separate money, not our operating budget.
Yes, every town must have a school, hospital (except most don't) and other public amenities .....that includes an emergency service infrastructure capable of operating 24/7 365 days a year- Funded appropriately.
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I also find it very disappointing that the CFS corporate has refused to acknowledge there's a lack of funding, they should be taking every opportunity available to take more funding, even if they do think we don't need it.
This is the text i should be reading in the Advertisers Opinion Column....
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Okay so if we agree we need more money for brigade running(I certainly do, the current deficit is masked by goodwill of members) and if as some posters have said there is no more money to be had from government......then the answer is to make better use of the money provided for the E.S, perhaps some at SAFECOM could justify their existence!
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I stand corrected MT - (on the O-Bahn thing anyway) & yes you are right communities have expectations - but my question is the same "what are communities prepared to give up?". Your organisation just does not support the vollies claim - why not?
The exodus thing was from employment agencies who have had numerous enquiries from croweaters looking for work & people I know who are looking for work & the fact that I have been looking for positions in SA (0)- I agree on the NSW comment though - thats how I know about what communities have to give up :wink:
The water thing - well thats a whole different story (we are loosing jobs hand over fist due to the drought & government policies).
It just seems to me there is a fair amount of disagreement on whether the article was a) factual, b) a true picture of the current situation & c) what is adequate? for as long as I can remember the some members of the CFS have complained about budgets & about once a year someone is in the media complaining. I would have thought if the situation was so bad that 1) there would be a Royal commission & 2) you wouldn't have any members?
Anyway I wish you all the best in your latest push for more money, but somehow I don't think it will work until you can come up with one voice that actually makes sense :wink:
cheers
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I agree with CFS_firey, (well part of it) it is not about one or 2 brigades it is about the whole service.
I think we all agree that we need more money, how much, where it comes from etc i don't know but when we get it, then the allocation of funds to what will be a "purler" of a debate.
My understanding is we have 2 "systems" in place to guide the decision makers in who gets what out of the money "bucket"
first is the SFEC (which is being reviewed i believe) and
the funding matrix that has been developed in the past few years to allocate funds per brigade based on many line items including no of calls.
It seems that the 2 systems have worked to some degree in the sense that the limited finances available to us is spread around the state.
Not only to provide essential equipment to brigades and members but to start and provide some new or updated stations to those brigades who, for whatever reason are lacking in the most basic of facilities i.e. power and toilets etc.
Surely no one would deny such brigades such basic items?
As i have said before i believe the construction of some of the stations that have occurred in the past few years has exceeded the requirements of individual brigades in regard to providing of facilities to meet the CFS responsibilities in regard to the workplace under the OHS act.
I believe now that this is being addressed.
It would be remiss of any manager of a brigade or group not to try and get more money or equipment for their brigade or group and sometimes the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" but in our case to the detriment of some other "project" within the CFS.
It would be nice to find say $50 mill to get ALL of the brigades up to a standard (what ever it might be) and where ever they might be, and then be able to then look at other areas to improve the service.
cheers
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If we had an extra $20 million for one financial year aka ZIPPY's Daily Dream
Idea- Re: Toliets and State of building- Station Audit's performed by Region
- Brigade Captain can give a short opinion of the state of the station building.
- If station has significant issues that affect volunteers and responses, Fast Track Station building replacement to be done with the funding within 1 years.
- If No Toilet is Attached, Depending on the state of the building and available area for construction addition. Fast Track Station building replacement with the funding within 2 years.
Highlight from Annual report: 30-45 Years is given as a buildings "working life".
As for appliances.
All appliances between 18-22 Years old: Earmarked for replacement within 4 Years.
All appliances over 22 years old: Fast track of replacement or review of SFEC within 2 Years.
If call rate is on *average* above 40 Calls, replace old vehicles with appliances lesser than 6 years old.
If call rate is below: Replace with vehicles between 6 and 10 years old. (To avoid $350,000 appliances sitting still awaiting 0 or 1 call a year)
Appliance Maintainence/Repairs
Brigade's submit situation forms to be assessed by Region for earmarking the Overhaul of appliance. Prioritised with a due date for all funded projects to be completed within 3 years. (Eg Faulty Pump)
CFS Staffing
Create a 8x Technical Services Positions for placement into regions/state according to need, for a contract of 5 years.
All left over monies.
- Divided out according to the "funding matrix" not SFEC. For First Aid Kit, Branch & Hose Replacement only.
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I also find it very disappointing that the CFS corporate has refused to acknowledge there's a lack of funding, they should be taking every opportunity available to take more funding, even if they do think we don't need it.
this is perhaps the biggest thing to come out of it (I think). That the CFS acting chief officer follows the government line (spin) and falls back on the old 'above SFEC minimum' argument (ignoring all the other points like that the SFEC is at least 15 years behind the times). He had a perfect opportunity to support and unite all CFS members (volunteers and the paid staff) and push for increased funding. Sure he may well worry it would be a 'career limiting move' but it just shows where he stands I think. And as he should well know, CFS paid staff are just as cheesed off about the reductions in budgets, lack of staff, unpaid overtime etc.
the other thing to note is all the group officers and deputies involved spoke about, and gave examples of, a lot more things than made it into the paper. For whatever reason the Sunday Mail chose to limit the story to just a few items.
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Could you give us an insight into which issues were not published?
Is it really worth putting yourself "on the bad side a potentionally thousands of volunteers" to ensure your career can develop further.
It will only produce lack of confidence in the person when he ends up being the Chief Officer...he could easily end up being a Costello (treasurer, never PM). Is he angry about that, nup. Was he still a nuffer, Yes.
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CEO's of Govt departments often tread a very fine line...keeping their workers happy, and keeping their Minister happy.
Going directly against your Minister, especially in public, can make your life very difficult, as can upsetting your workers.....
Pip
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soooo glad theres a loophole...vote out the minister at his local seat, keep voting them out until they relise hang on...maybe its the volunteers voting is out :evil:
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CEO's of Govt departments often tread a very fine line...keeping their workers happy, and keeping their Minister happy.
Going directly against your Minister, especially in public, can make your life very difficult, as can upsetting your workers.....
Pip
just ask the DPP
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Could you give us an insight into which issues were not published?
all the things you probably already know about, eg. group/brigades get a budget of $x per year but have to buy computers through safecom at twice the going rate they could get them locally, command cars leased through fleetsa rather than local arrangements with a dealer etc. All money which is taken back from your budget back to govt coffers. The other side being brigades are no longer buying locally and supporting local businesses yet the CFS goes on about wanting the local community to support the CFS. Long standing holes in the paging network (specific examples given of Mylor and Montacute) and statewide over 100 brigade areas where the coverage is deemed by CFS to be below the min acceptable standard. And plenty more.
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I was contacted by the sunday mail and declined but in hind sight I should of spoken up. Some the items that have been purchased by Brigades in my neck of the woods include, first aid kits, wet weather gear, paint for the station, emergency lighting for the station and getting computer donated to the Brigade.
When I read financial report os of brigade expenaces where it states that nearly $1000 is spent on station mainteance and no sign of it has occured or $450.00 on a fax maichine and the list goes; makes me wonder where the money really goes.
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SACFS has advertised for a "BUILDING FIRE SAFETY OFFICER", wonder if this is additional or a replacement....and the trigger have been the article :?
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No, government takes ages to make new positions.
501 steps to making new jobs
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The building fire safety officer position has been vacant for over a year now since Max left. It's been advertised three times with no adaquate takers.
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The building fire safety officer position has been vacant for over a year now since Max left. It's been advertised three times with no adaquate takers.
The money is ($65862.00/70765.00)
that's why :-P
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No that postion has been filled..... having just come back from a week of working up in the HILL'S and having a look at some fire stations I can now say that there are some very well maintained stations up there and it does not matter if you come from a urban or rural area I am sure that some brigades down here would love to have what you guys have....having said that I would say that most of the money raised by local brigade's and its community would have helped things along.
This week also proved one thing to me and that it does not matter if your a volunteer in region 1 or 6 or 4 or where ever each group and brigade have the same probelms be it appliances,ppe or station doors that take a while to open...I am sure if we where to ask those who take photos of stations and appliances that are run down that we could write a book about it, the article did not show all of its photos there is one of the whole group offers who have spoken up.. I say to them well done and we wait and see if anything will get done......
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As for air bags the Naracoorte brigade had to replace their two air bags some 2 years ago as they where bought by the community the brigade had to pay half the cost of replacing them and region paid the rest.
Bill as per usual your information is wrong please get your story full of facts and not full of crap
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Sorry FOX my information is correct...... if you think its wrong may be you should contact DGO 1.....
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Fox must work for the CFS, hahahaha
So why can't Mt Barker get theirs replaced, being on a major freight corridor and with a massive rural area to look after....sigh
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Fox must work for the CFS, hahahaha
So why can't Mt Barker get theirs replaced, being on a major freight corridor and with a massive rural area to look after....sigh
Air bags aren't standard stowage, and anything thats isn't standard stowage obviously isn't required...
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Obviously !! haha
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sooo whats the politically correct term for "Providing a service better than School C Grade"
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If its not standard gear then why teach it on courses??? In the nine years i was with Naracoorte we used the AIR BAG'S twice and both times they did the job the had to do and saved a life...If we are to provide a full service in CFS then we need to have the correct gear to do the job, I wish MT barker all the best in trying to get their gear replaced and they should as they have a very busy freeway that has high truck traffic and that is where the air bags will come in good use......
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Sorry FOX my information is correct...... if you think its wrong may be you should contact DGO 1.....
well im telling you that you are wrong
i dont work for the office but i do know what im talking about.
i have many friends in the brigade and have close contact with several of them and i have it from the officers that naracoorte did not pay for them. i suggest a call to the captain would prob sort it all out for you
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I think you guys should either sort it out via pm's, punch on's or a love in, your choice. :-)
Getting back to the tight filtered CFS. Its disgraceful that they are not funding these crucial pieces of equipment. Instead they will make brigades fundraise / get community funding to pay for these items if they want them replaced. Talk about double dipping from the tax payers. ESL what a joke, almost as big of a joke as ES VOLUNTEERS paying the ESL.
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I heard this at a community event that a brigade which leases it building could be closed as the CFS does have the money to either lease a building or construct one. Is the new CFS motto safety first only if it financial viable :-o
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Was it a local brigade to you ?
I don't know to many leased CFS stations, you would hope if they are a required brigade then this is crazy. I am sure CFS aren't that silly to close a brigade just becasue they can't afford the building.
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Fox must work for the CFS, hahahaha
So why can't Mt Barker get theirs replaced, being on a major freight corridor and with a massive rural area to look after....sigh
Air bags aren't standard stowage, and anything thats isn't standard stowage obviously isn't required...
Not standard stowage is the constant rhetoric a former RC use to say to justify why you could'nt have it on the appliance.If CFS did an audit on what is carried on some appliances they would get a rude shock, but why brigades cant have equipment on the appliance to suit their response area and terrain, to fulfill their "Duty of Care" to the community is a joke.
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Fox must work for the CFS, hahahaha
So why can't Mt Barker get theirs replaced, being on a major freight corridor and with a massive rural area to look after....sigh
Air bags aren't standard stowage, and anything thats isn't standard stowage obviously isn't required...
Not standard stowage is the constant rhetoric a former RC use to say to justify why you could'nt have it on the appliance.If CFS did an audit on what is carried on some appliances they would get a rude shock, but why brigades cant have equipment on the appliance to suit their response area and terrain, to fulfill their "Duty of Care" to the community is a joke.
Have you done anything about it? its all pretty easy to have a whine, but very few truly rattle the cage and push for change!
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Fox must work for the CFS, hahahaha
So why can't Mt Barker get theirs replaced, being on a major freight corridor and with a massive rural area to look after....sigh
Air bags aren't standard stowage, and anything thats isn't standard stowage obviously isn't required...
Not standard stowage is the constant rhetoric a former RC use to say to justify why you could'nt have it on the appliance.If CFS did an audit on what is carried on some appliances they would get a rude shock, but why brigades cant have equipment on the appliance to suit their response area and terrain, to fulfill their "Duty of Care" to the community is a joke.
Have you done anything about it? its all pretty easy to have a whine, but very few truly rattle the cage and push for change!
This is the whingers website isnt it :-P
New RC problem solvered :-D
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New RC problem solvered :-D
You wish.
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Posted on: May 31, 2009, 10:20:44 PMPosted by: malleefire
I heard this at a community event that a brigade which leases it building could be closed as the CFS does have the money to either lease a building or construct one. Is the new CFS motto safety first only if it financial viable
I find it hard to believe they would do this unless there were other circumstances that haven't been put out in the public domain.
In the group i am in we have had several leased buildings that the owners over the past years have expressed their views on "doing other things" with the buildings.
In All cases the CFS has relocated the brigades.
(this is also one of the factors that lead to brigades "jumping the Que" in regard to replacement stations) Much to the ire of other brigades who are waiting for replacement stations.
We still have at least 2 buildings currently being leased that i am aware of, one has a pepper corn lease amount and the other, well, lets say you have a whole condiment range of lease amount.
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Now is the time to become Militant and start voicing your displeasure @ how we are being mistreated & used by the Government.Election time is getting closer haven't you all noticed the Wanky anouncements that have been happening of late. eg. Fire officers for DEH, GRN bossts all a bit sus :wink:
If people don't ark up now and demand a better service, equipment replacements & a rise to a maximum SFEC instead of the minimum SFEC. The DEP CF always quotes the minimum give us a break & give a margin to work to . who is to blame!
I hear of a protest drive to Parliment steps is in the planning stages to embarass :oops:the Government by CFS Vollies is very close :x
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Now is the time to become Militant and start voicing your displeasure @ how we are being mistreated & used by the Government.
Exactly - the more people to voice their concern, the more the government will feel the need to listen.
How about everyone sends a letter to their local member explaining how lack of funding is affecting their local brigade, (in equipment, training and volunteer retention).
A list of members and their contact details can be found here:
http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/Members/List+of+All+Members.htm (http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/Members/List+of+All+Members.htm)
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Just very quickly, I find it interesting that in light of this article appearing to be very brigade/group specific, the response from some people has been "Well, my brigade is fine, thus there is hardly an issue".
This is part of the problem. We are all part of the larger organisation and we ALL need to push to fix this for EVERYONE. All these people here claiming that YES! There are problems, are any of you actually doing anything about it? Are any of you writing letters? Any of you doing anything beyond whinging and making threats like "We're going to drive down to parliament!"
Come on. It's time to band together and get this state wide problem fixed. Yes, Stirling may not need, nor be able to crew 5 trucks, and it harks back to the days of council funding and empire building, but there are still massive issues in terms of the age/work ratio of 4/5 of those trucks. Barker has huge Rescue risks, should they and all other Rescue brigades have airbags regardless of how often they may actually get used? YES! Time to put aside the snarky Brigade/Group rivalries and stand together no matter what you think of certain individual brigades.
Comrades, lets DO something to fix this problem!
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I have to agree with numbers,May be its time for more Volunteer input into what we would like on appliances so that we provide a better service to our community does anyone know when the last time the STOWAGE gear list was updated for all of the CFS fleet??.
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Comrades, lets DO something to fix this problem!
DAA! DAA! Let the glorious revolution begin..........now we just need to pick a kick off date that suits everyone, I'am busy Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays :-D
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Once again our illustrious voice of the CFSVA no where to be heard, but I suppose its hard to bite the hand that feeds you :-P
Numbers agree with what you say, but without real numbers to bring this deficiency in the SFEC to a head we will continue to suffer as a result.
The surface has only been scratched.....just :roll:
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This is part of the problem. We are all part of the larger organisation and we ALL need to push to fix this for EVERYONE. Come on. It's time to band together and get this state wide problem fixed. Comrades, lets DO something to fix this problem!
Right, do you want to lead the way? What should we call this Union.
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So do you think there will be a drive to the HOUSE and hand in the keys by some brigade's or group's????
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I can't remember the figure but the government is going to allocate more funds in the budget in light of the vic bushfires, for equipment,training and appliances
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Hi All,
Can I just lay a few issues to rest..
1> Sturt and Lofty didnt go all rogue to the Sunday Mail..In fact we were both contacted by the Sunday Mail for comment following buy "budgets" post and both declined to comment pending seeking advice from our nominated representatives, namely the CFSVA.
At a subsequent meeting with Wendy, Ken Schutz and Wayne Thorley we were given the all clear to proceed with a media release using the replacement of vehicles as the "hook" to engage the public and present other issues as well such as buildings,training,pagers,staff shortages. etc etc.
In fact we were encouraged by the CFSVA to go public and their supporting comments should show that.
Unfortunately the coverage in the Mail was poor and clearly Mcleod's 313 games are more important to the editor of the Mail than CFS issues...As far as facts , we supplied a ream of material however this was badly interpreted and presented.
Anyway thats that and the Media didn run it as much as we had hoped.
What I would like to let the 790 odd members of this forum to know is that despite the shortcomings in the story we were trying to get the ball rolling on CFS issues statewide and not limit it to Lofty or Sturt groups but again it wasnt to be.
What I find disappointing is comments from the west coast that we dont need more money when clearly there is some dissent on this subject from people within you own group Mark.
We need to present a united front like when Ceduna got a special crew cab appliance with red and blue beacons to carry a crew in comfort for long distances and slow truckies down on the Highway (beacons) when the rest of the CFS were issued with single cabs and red beacons only... Oh yes I have a memory like an elephant and I remember the support you got from other regions and groups.
The CFS management are on government contracts and are expected to toe the Govt line or else (not have your contract renewed) or (so you want to be chief one day do you??) and I dont expect anything more from them ...in fact scheiße , Id be toeing the line too after all this is pays my mortgage ...
We need to shift the blame to the Government and hit them where it hurts , votes and public shaming.
If we dont present a single viewpoint they will always divide us and set us against each other.
With this in mind how many of the 790 of you are prepared to fight for the cause even if it has no immediate effect on you or you dont agree with it?
I suppose you have a solution in mind? Maybe we could form a working party or sub-committee to look at the "issues" and present a report that will get ignored because we dont have any money to deal with the issues.
PS I heard the other day that after 2 years of progressing through various working groups and committees the concept of carbon fibre cylinders was endorsed by COAC but because each cylinder costs $20 more than the old ones the process has been stalled because "we need to do a comprehensive business plan prior to implementation to cover the expenditure."
Give me a break.
Facts (and I can only speak on behalf of my own group)
Lofty covers 650 SQ KM of area (most of it high risk peri urban)
over 16000 residents
average of 1100 calls per year
23 frontline FF appliances
8 Stations (1 over 300 CPY, 2 over 150 CPY, 1 over 100 CPY, 4 over 30 CPY)
250 (approx) volunteers.
And as a matter of interest
4% of the CFS brigades in the state (around 20 brigades) account for 94% of the responses.
Now im not having a crack at those less busy but surely you agree that these brigades should be adequately funded.
I encourge you all to freeze your community fundraising accounts for one financial year stop your groups penny pinching and demand the CFS to pay for what your brigades are rightly entitled to...Then and only then will CFS management realise that it actually costs a hell of a lot more than they realise.
STOP PROPPING UP THE SYSTEM.........
When and if the drive down to parliament house happens I expect you all to be there ...thats 790 volunteers + appliances ....should make a significant impact
Mr moderator perhaps you could start a poll on that and see how committed we all are.
Cheers guys,
Rainer
PS give me a call if you want to discuss (Lofty GO)
Ciao
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PS watch for the courier.
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If only 99% of the members of this forums, weren't all talk.
Surely there is nothing stopping us forming a union. Above and beyond the CFSVA...
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...Mr moderator perhaps you could start a poll on that and see how committed we all are...
Poll created. Find it here: http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,2280.0.html (http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,2280.0.html)
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Well said Rainer, as usual the media only print what they want, if they produced a better account of the facts as you presented the public would have more insight to the problems we face as a service.
Running on a shoestring budget, and also having to fundraise for equipment which should be paid for by the ESL we ALL PAY, is outrageous.
I'll be at the HOUSE when the time comes :wink:
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I heard the other day that after 2 years of progressing through various working groups and committees the concept of carbon fibre cylinders was endorsed by COAC but because each cylinder costs $20 more than the old ones the process has been stalled because "we need to do a comprehensive business plan prior to implementation to cover the expenditure."
Another bunch of fail for the Fail pile.
Business Plan....Replace every Cylinder 1 for 1. Buy in Bulk & Distribute via Regions > Groups > Brigades. Simple. Money?...Stop buying so many "comfort" Blankets for new appliances.
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does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?
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I would support you has a private person.
If I tried in uniform or any SES logo, then a 'code of conduct breach' could head my way. Maybe I would anyway....I would have to think about it.
This issue has been discussed previously with some SES volunteers & higher. Some volunteers feel the same & because SAFECOM handle some of the budgets to the minister, I would suggest you open it too all emergency service volunteers (eg Marine, SES, CFS, retained MFS, UFU & maybe Surf Life).
But a lot of volunteers just want to do the tasking or training & go home. They are complacent regards the politics.
We are all feeling the same money pinch. For instance, have a look at Western Adelaide SES LHQ on Marion Road, near Sir Donald Bradman.
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does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?
thats the whole idea of being a united front....
the old adage of "united we stand, divided we fall" wasn't just a war cry to sound good...it actually meant something!!
if anyone is familiar with the AEA - now there is a good union model - you don't have 99.6% membership if you're not doing the job properly.
unfortunately I think that the younger generations don't understand the concept of a united front either. Gen Y's typically are out for what suits them, and if they don't get it they take their bucket and spade to a different sandpit...completely defeating themselves, and letting down their colleagues in the process!
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does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?
thats the whole idea of being a united front....
the old adage of "united we stand, divided we fall" wasn't just a war cry to sound good...it actually meant something!!
if anyone is familiar with the AEA - now there is a good union model - you don't have 99.6% membership if you're not doing the job properly.
unfortunately I think that the younger generations don't understand the concept of a united front either. Gen Y's typically are out for what suits them, and if they don't get it they take their bucket and spade to a different sandpit...completely defeating themselves, and letting down their colleagues in the process!
This exactly. A lot could be learned from the AEA model. Industrial action is very effective, even threats thereof when the membership base comprises that much of an organization so essential to the community.
The problem is the amount of effort that it would take to organise such an action, and to find a willing and appropriate body to govern it.
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does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?
What are they going to do ...Sack you?...cut your pay?... :-D
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does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?
What are they going to do ...Sack you?...cut your pay?... :-D
haha yea funny funny...what i meant was is the CFS powers to be on side with this??
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...what i meant was is the CFS powers to be on side with this??
Yes.......But they can't publicaly say it. :wink:
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as managers (and public servants) they can't say much to encourage you - but in the absence of actively DISCOURAGING you from doing it....I'd be reading between the lines
as it's been so eloquently put - sackings or pay cuts aren't going to happen - and you don't make an income so can't threaten bans which will have a direct fiscal effect (as seems to work so effectively for the AEA) - so what other options are available?
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Exactly - this has been discussed many times before. The only hope you have is to publicly shame the government (similar to what the ACT vollies did). And will it work? don't know, but wish you well.
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Well ladies nad gentlemen boys and girls...MARCH WE SHALL!!! :-D
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ECHUNGA 34 TO MOORE ENGINEERING FOR QUOTATION FOR LIGHT TOWER 03.06.09 13:24 CFS Echunga Info
thinking about "practical and safe" appliances, might be good to focus on, as lighting on new rural 34's is at best minimum.
Relating this to this thread, the cost of these...would it fall under the $ 14.5mil capital works budget that is stated by andrew lawson in todays courier.
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as it's been so eloquently put - sackings or pay cuts aren't going to happen - and you don't make an income so can't threaten bans which will have a direct fiscal effect (as seems to work so effectively for the AEA) - so what other options are available?
Simple really:
Paperwork bans, that impact the ability of the SACFS to operate (Although it does a good job at this already)
Then do we go to operational things such as not turning out to anything but confirmed life risk, eg: 000 Calls to fires and rescue jobs only. No Alarms, no trees, no flooding, no MVA spillage, only the bare necessity.
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...would it fall under the $ 14.5mil capital works budget that is stated by andrew lawson in todays courier.
'capital works' refers to buildings (that's the standard meaning anyway)
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I spoke to work mate of mine who has just come back from working on the west coast as a driller. Word is that a brigade has got out of favour with the cops who sub lease a shed which they lease themselves as the building belongs to another company. If the two can't resolve the differences then their truck will go and nd they will mean no SAPOL or SAAS or SES or CFS at all for that town. Reason given is that they can't afford to build in that region a new station they can only do 2 a year :x
it looks like some places in SA are looked after really well by the sate budget :evil:
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Your joking !
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Me thinks that fridgey and me are talking about the same brigade.
From talking to a member of the brigade who was told by someone further up the chain that their house burn to quick and having anything better their was a waste of resources. They said they did not consider that a pub, a servo and a school of 35 students with some community infrastructure was worth protecting.
I now that the state a bit tight on the cash but who's going to tell the residents of that town you gonna have to wait for the nearest service to arrive which is a min of 60 k's away. I wonder if they will survive to tell the tale of how it went down.
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The same government who is not going to spend the cash - there are many remote communities that are around that size & have stuff all! Sadly its the way of the world - is Cockburn still closed?
So I think you all should read Matt's piece, there has been a fair bit of comment on the government not living up to it's end of the bargain, but on this & other threads - some members (& some staff) are not living up to theirs!
As I said on the other thread good luck with it all, but me thinks you have some very powerful opponents & after all an nice couple in North Adelaide don't give two stuffs about a community out in the sticks! And this will continue while 98% of this countries population live on the eastern seaboard. And rural communities slowly die :cry:
cheers
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does anyone think if theres a actually protest outside " the house" the powers to be in CFS mite look not to favourably on this? i just cant help to wonder if we did sumthin like this it may backfire for individuals or brigades?
Yeah, they shut down all the brigades.. Then spend the MILLIONS in replacing them all with Career stations, running appliances + cost, 4 shifts + relief, training, and the courses, cost of recruitment etc.. - Can't see that ever happening.
Mr. Government/CFS.. STEP UP, support your volunteers, or be prepared to face a world of pain in the National and International media when thousands of Volunteers march infront of Govt. House.
I can't recall anywhere in the world where a Fire Service has lobbied in the thousands to support better training, better equipment and better treatment, only so they can better serve their community, free of charge.
I'm imagining the headlines now....
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Chook your example of the cockburn brigade is good one but it needs to be put into correct context. I do know that this is something of an oddity but people want real change in the CFS acting on rumour, Chinese whispers and second hand information will not achieve the desired outcome that we all want to hear.
Cockburn closed due the fact that it was a brigade without sufficient membership. The work that is done of the promotions website particularly on Brigade statistics (yes I do know they are supplied from CFS HQ) does provide a very different picture to who is active and who is not. Hark do I hear you ask why have some brigades have zero hours well those brigade are their own worst emany - All I can say is fill out that paperwork create that paper trail; as all that paper work they try to drown us in can be used to each and every brigade advantage.
As the old adage goes the proof is in the pudding all we have to is add water and stir :evil:
OUTCOME: To produce those headlines that RescueHazmat imagines
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Farfax Press chimes in.
http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/general/the-burning-issue-of-fire-funding-in-sa/1533296.aspx?src=enews
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The more the public realise how worse off we are, the sooner something might get done, after all we are saving them a fortune in wages :evil:
You could hardly say the government is looking after its people :mrgreen:
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I wouldn't say that the government isn't looking after its people.
According to ABC radio yesterday, ministerial offices have been quarantined
from budget & staff cuts...
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ha ha ha, Lets send the Ministerial offices staff to Hazardous Materials incidents....
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Looks like another article in Saturday's Advertiser http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25661902-5006301,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25661902-5006301,00.html)
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Good we may as well keep riding the wave, the SES have jumped in now which adds weight to the argument, I am just waiting for the CFS and the governments reply stating that everything is rosy.....any reason Euan gets Andy Lawson to reply to these things ?
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Think you will find that Euan was away on leave when the first round came through. See what happens this time.
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Why should we pay for an increase in the levy where's the other $1 billion gone :evil:
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split between the other 4 or 5 services (depending on your view of DEH/SA Water) that share the funds....and when this $1.5 funding only covered the cost of running 25% of the Emergency Services for that period...the Govt topped up the rest out of general revenue.....if you're going to sqawk about something..at least sound like you're informed about how your own service is funded.
Piss poor effort by the VFBA....selling the shortage of funds on the need to replace sheds...and community consultation....what a bunch of amateurs...please pay a Union Rep from the other side to come over and manage this....our part timers caould organise the proverbial with a fistfull of $50s
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CFSVA most people I know cant get their head around the new name let alone the inaction of our so called "union" :-P
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Good we may as well keep riding the wave, the SES have jumped in now which adds weight to the argument, I am just waiting for the CFS and the governments reply stating that everything is rosy.....any reason Euan gets Andy Lawson to reply to these things ?
Euan didn't say everything is rosy at the Comm.Ed. sessions last weekend.
In fact, he seemed pretty embarrassed at the amounts going into brigade ops & comm.ed.
Especially comm.ed.
However (he didn't say, because as a ministerial appointee he isn't allowed to) his
hands are tied by the total amount allocated by government & the proportion of that
which is tied to interdepartmental charges & specific ministerial photo opportunity
items. Like large helicopters & so forth. :evil:
Think about it folks. The execs of all government departments are hired to execute
government policy. Nay-saying the minister is career suicide. The CO doesn't get
paid enough to cover the next 20 years of not being employable.
cheers
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So I guess its back on the vols shoulders to fight for better conditions.
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It looks with the some of the posting in Adelaide NOW that some members of the public are not happy about how CFS staff take their work cars shopping and that some have kids seats in the back.Time the public found out that our staff who are on call still have a family life and when that pager or phone goes off they are out the door to the office or up for a 200km drive to get to job....They are not happy about CFS over spending but there is no mention of how much money MFS over spent........Come on media report the whole story and not just half of it.....
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And there lies your problem Bill, the public sees what looks like an abuse of privileges at the same time the CFS is asking for more money. The MFS on the other hand never complains about lack of resources, the union does! And the public can see the difference (most people are aware of how unions are supposed to work).
SAAS are the same, never complain - the union does their complaining for them when required :wink:
But when CFS wants money - it is reported as CFS officers/spokeperson are complaining. When the only people who should be saying anything on behalf of the vollies is the association/s. And sorry but the paid staff argument should be separated from the complaints of the volunteers. Instead maybe their union (if they have one) should be arguing for more staff, better conditions etc. The only time payed staff should be spoken of by the association, is "these tasks were once done by payed staff & now they are not". Finally your argument about being on call but having a family life, would not wash with the majority of the public as there are many in the private sector who are "on call" but don't get a tax payer funded company car to drive around in. They usually either a) get a car as part of their package or b) salary sacrifice one! I know it sucks but the public only sees what it wants to see - afterall it is their money thats being spent :wink: cheers
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Maybe its time for the vol's to get behind Euan and tell him to speak freely, and if the minister tries to sack you, they sack us to. No Vol's, No Service. Not sure a minister would want a walk out of an entire service hanging over his head.
It wouldn't even require the whole CFS. I personally believe that just a walk out of R1 vols would have the required impact. Seeing thats were this originated. Some may say its holding the government to ransom doing it this way, but if thats what it takes to get the message through that we are not going to put up with it any longer, then so be it.
F*#k it, I'm starting a Facebook group. "http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=206554085695"
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whats the link?
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Well crew, i've flicked a little marble down the hill, lets see if it can have the impact of a wrecking ball by the time it gets to the bottom.
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Bold Move My Friend well done and Good Luck it shall be interesting
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This has to be a well planned and strategic fight to achieve the desired effect, and will only work if we are ALL passionate about our cause :wink:
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Well may be someone needs to set a time and date for this MARCH/ PROTEST and get the ball rolling or are we all waiting on the SAVFBA?? I agree if EUAN wants to talk out let him but we all need to stand behind and support him this would be the only way that we can protect him from loosing his job...The problems effect all regions not just region one so if we are going to do we all need to stand up once and for all and do it before summer gets here.....
Not sure how true this is but I hear on the CFS VINE that CFS staff are joining the UFU has anyone heard this?????
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as my Father always tell me there are no problems only solutions. About time the CFS stood up and made some noise if this true. I remember reading in a flyer that went around work that a site leader wanted us all to be serfs to our clients. That type of thinking shows how outdated some of the thinking in the public service. Unfortunately to many government departments subscribe to this type of medieval thinking, maybe a UFU action in the ranks will give the service a degree of creditability more so than will that other group (the VA).
If this is the case does this means that volunteers will be able to join considering how large the staff of the service is to give the UFU arguments more creditability when negiotating with mindless wonders of the government
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Great idea CFS staff joining the UFU (if its true), however be very careful being a vollie & joining the UFU not unless you want to see less vollies & more payed firies (remember the comments of the Victorian UFU after Black Saturday & the UFU campaign against the VRA in NSW). It goes against the union ethos to do something for nothing! And if you think working for the public sector is bad then the unions aren't much better. Far better to find out where the money has been spent, eg how much money was budgeted for training, how much training was planned & how much was delivered. There would be a start, another would be why CFS/SES stations cost far more to build than an equivilant "normal" buildings. The sweet heart state fleet deal that the emergency services were forced into.
Anyway my guess is that senior staff will have more than enough to worry about, when the findings of the Black Saturday inquest are released.
cheers
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Heres the thing, we have a group that is set to represent our interests,the CFSVA
and the only problem with the CFSVA is that all of the regions are not unified in addressing problems.
The outer regions (correct me if Iam wrong) arent concerned about some of the issues raised by regions 1 and 2, because it doesnt concern them! and vice-versa, again small thinking, we need to think as a service, not just our region/group/brigade.
On just about every thread on this site someone is bagging the CFSVA, why?
Perhaps the reason they seem to be largely inaffective is that there is no unity.
Whether it be a union or the CFSVA they will both have the same problem, members of different regions being apathetic towards others issues and not being prepared to back their brothers!
How many commited posters on here would put their weight behind a militant campaign waged by the CFSVA, calling for marches on parliament house?
Before reinventing the wheel, would not getting behind a structure that is already in place be more effective, AGMs are coming up, if you feel like stirring things up become your group CFSVA rep, if all regions had militant minded members would things be different?
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Exactly Jaff, unions can be beaten just as easily as associations - management call it divide & conquer! If the service/government do feel threatened by recent bad press (I doubt it) then watch the real "trinkets" come out(new toys for those who are vocal)!
And you are right of course if people aren't happy with their association, fix it!
In retrospect I regret my actions against our association at the time (bad advice for someone I respected) - instead we should have joined and changed within!
And if all else fails, drive the vehicles to North tce and chuck all of the keys in a big bucket :-D
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Not sure how true this is but I hear on the CFS VINE that CFS staff are joining the UFU has anyone heard this?????
sorry Bill...as usual....not correct. The UFU in SA has a specific clause in its constitution that prohibits paid cfs staff from being members...nice try
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Great idea CFS staff joining the UFU (if its true), however be very careful being a vollie & joining the UFU
you and Bill should start a garden supplies business Chook..... have to be employed AND a member of the MFS to join the UFU in SA.....volunteers not even close to getting a look anywhere, in fact they wouldnt even give u the street address to send in your application
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And you Crash would know that it is quite easy for a union to change its rules to allow for more members e.g. CFS Staff! Other unions are doing this as I speak to get into new turf (=more funds).
You actually quoted the qualifier -"if its true", which I would doubt, afterall everyone knows how well the union looks after the retained guys :wink: Why would CFS staff pay fees to an organisation, that isn't really that powerful in SA?
Finally Crash - not sure about the garden centre comment - but there would be no point as there is no water in SA to grow gardens anyway :-D
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Thanks Crash, So would the UFU knock back a CFS staff member who has come from a interstate fire service and was a member of the UFU in that state???
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i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...
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i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...
Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seeen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc
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Thanks Crash, So would the UFU knock back a CFS staff member who has come from a interstate fire service and was a member of the UFU in that state???
Bill, I cant speak for the Union......but their membership rules are very clear, and are related to the role they have here in SA, not some distant function in another land (or time if you include Qld). Witness one of the CFS career staff who was a member of the union here.....now is not. I would suggest if it were possible for anyone it would have been him.
Chook, sure the rules can change, but from memory I reckon its a 80% figure needed to change the constitution. Hardly likely I would suggest......opening up the membership outside of the MFS is hardly going to improve the pay or benefits of the MFS career staff....which is after all why they vote yes for anything remember....
We'd have heaps of water if some dumb arses upstream werent using it all to grow cotton just to wipe our arses on :wink:
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i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...
Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seeen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc
FYI
SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS. From my discussions with the inspector he believes that stations will be upgraded to make a minimum level, some of his comments were: male & female toilets, change rooms, CABA cleaning facilities, and any other issues which may arise with stations.
He said the R1 stations would be complete by the end of the month with a report re each station by the end of the month also. Then the other regions will follow and he said he has to the end of March to finish the rest of the state.
He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.
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Witness one of the CFS career staff who was a member of the union here.....now is not. I would suggest if it were possible for anyone it would have been him.
So it was a member of MFS that changed services too CFS?
Only one person comes immediately to mind...Forrest Gump!
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i dont know that the lack of money for station/equiptment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...
Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seeen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc
FYI
SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS. From my discussions with the inspector he believes that stations will be upgraded to make a minimum level, some of his comments were: male & female toilets, change rooms, CABA cleaning facilities, and any other issues which may arise with stations.
He said the R1 stations would be complete by the end of the month with a report re each station by the end of the month also. Then the other regions will follow and he said he has to the end of March to finish the rest of the state.
He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.
WOW thats guna run in to some big $$$$$ if the decide all stations need toilets and what not.
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FYI
SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS.
He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.
As I understand it this will be the services first chance too see the state of play across the state.....by a supposedly unbiased means.
Now the chances of substantive work commencing soon to lift ALL brigade stations to a minimum acceptable level well.....Ha Ha HAHAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA plop roll roll roll :-D
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Thanks Crash, So would the UFU knock back a CFS staff member who has come from a interstate fire service and was a member of the UFU in that state???
What would be the point of trying to join, (or continue membership with), a union that doesn't represent the organisation you work for?
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One can only hope that the AUDIT will be done well before we see rural stations built with only a shed for the applinace and nothing else.....You dont have to drive far from the CBD into the hill's to see stations that have problems or just take a sunday drive around a region and have a look.....
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One can only hope that the AUDIT will be done well before we see rural stations built with only a shed for the applinace and nothing else.....You dont have to drive far from the CBD into the hill's to see stations that have problems or just take a sunday drive around a region and have a look.....
Bit late there would be heaps n heaps of single bay sheds around the state and nothing else.
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i dont know that the lack of money for station/equipment maintenance is quite as statewide as some think. ive personally witnessed plenty of work going on in a station near by to me and i guess this work isn gettin done for free...
Maybe Pipster or Ashes could answer that question, as they have seen most stations throughout the state!
Also what parameters are you going to put on, that are acceptable eg Toilet? Concrete floor? Meeting room? Industry standard roadworthy appliances? etc etc
You're right Jaff, between Ashes & me, we have visited pretty much every station in the state (although we haven't been to Nepabunna yet, and I don't think we have stopped at Nundroo...and perhaps one or two others in Region 6...)
Anyway, the quality of stations varies greatly across the state - from stations you could quite comfortable live in for weeks at a time, (just bring a bed) to stations that should be condemmend, and everything in between.
Many (most?) of the existing stations were built by the local community or by the local council, and hence there is no real standard... what you got depended a lot on how well off your council was, how well they supported the CFS, and how well the community supported the CFS.
But now, many need upgrading and / or replacement.
So, there needs to be some sort of standard as to what a station should have - in terms of the capital, and in terms of what equipment each station should have.
Because the CFS across the state is so diverse, a one size fits all approach cannot work - but there needs to be some standards.
So what should a basic station have? Should every station have a meeting room? Comms room? Toilets? Kitchen? Kitchenette?
Should a station be supplied a TV & DVD player? Tables & chairs? Fridge?
I think the answer to those will vary greatly across the state....but some sort of standard should exist.
There was a previous thread sometime ago, which asked what should a "standard" station have....some good ideas, some not so....perhaps we should have another thread along that line again....?
Pip
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SAFECOM are currently auditing fire stations within CFS. From my discussions with the inspector he believes that stations will be upgraded to make a minimum level, some of his comments were: male & female toilets, change rooms, CABA cleaning facilities, and any other issues which may arise with stations.
He said the R1 stations would be complete by the end of the month with a report re each station by the end of the month also. Then the other regions will follow and he said he has to the end of March to finish the rest of the state.
He did not know if work was going to commence immediately or if this was a report to ascertain how good or how bad things are.
As I understood it, this is the first real look SAFECOM has taken at what it
has inherited from councils. Intent is to work out 5 & 10 year budget plans
for maintenance & replacement. With just a little rot in the fascias & a leak
in the roof, ours is one of the better ones he'd seen to date. One urban brigade
has load-bearing brick walls which wobble when pushed. :-o Others have cracks
you can put your hand through. That's just in "well-off" Region 1.
cheers
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Fair point Crash 80%? Thinking of total numbers of paid CFS staff the subs gained wouldn't be worth the hassle - unless you wanted some influence within :wink: You wipe your arse on cotton? In fact most of the cotton water has been bought by the feds!
It's about time SAFECOM did something constructive, I find it incredible that the it has taken this long to actually audit what they have!
The front line services should be focused on well front line stuff!
It is normal when an organisation "inherits" assets, the first thing they do is risk assess what they have. Its called Due Diligence, otherwise how do you know if you have just bought a lemon so to speak? Anyway hopefully they will notice the faulty toilet block at Berri (including the moving walls) & that one toilet for females is not suitable for a regional office, incident management facility or regional training facility :-)
Hopefully it will all work out well for the services in SA - good luck!
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I agree with Pip, Bagy and the rest of the comments,
Do the audit to see where we are. I am sure that some people will be surprised at how "bad" some stations are.
Most people however know this already.
My concern is however, when the figures are compiled and the dollars worked out to bring the stations up to a basic standard, one of 2 things is going to happen
.. Ops we haven't got the money to do this to x number of stations we need to lower the standard or
.. We have the money to do the work to X-y number, we can leave some out or heaven forbid amalgamate or wind some up.
In my group i would estimate that 15% would be ok
65% would need quiet a lot of work (ie BA areas toilets etc) and
20% you wouldn't do any work to as the cost would be more than the station is worth (replace the lot)
cheers
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the state of stations is an interesting topic...and its maybe off topic here, as Pip suggested
My own Group....with probably one minor exception all Brigade premises would fit well within the guidelines as explained by Lt Dan....to my mind, thats a worthy legacy of the Group and the past Brigade members....as they have largely funded, built and managed their own facilities well. Yes its meant fundraising, yes its meant a bit of asking for a handout from the local community, but honestly I dont think thats a bad thing, and it is still possible in this day of ESL.
The question is SHOULD we have to.....and the answer is....unless we can come up with another round of a few $billion from our mate Kev just for CFS buildings...then it aint gonna happen in the short to medium term.
So we will be stuck with the status quo maybe with a few more shekels thrown in from FF Rann and his stodgy mate with the purse. But the answer is......where do we spend them? Do we ensure the standards for those Brigades that do 94% of the calls first?.....might be contensious, but thats what a business would do.
PS
Yes Chook.....what do u think makes up the Cottonelle Crapper Paper.... Papyrus??
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I heard that the audit is being done under OH&S emphasis to see if the buildings match the building & safety standard.
They tried a different way form capital funding of buildings with Treasury and did not succeed.
I could be wrong though...... :-D
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I find it incredible that the it has taken this long to actually audit what they have!
The front line services should be focused on well front line stuff!
It is normal when an organisation "inherits" assets, the first thing they do is risk assess what they have. Its called Due Diligence, otherwise how do you know if you have just bought a lemon so to speak? Anyway hopefully they will notice the faulty toilet block at Berri (including the moving walls) & that one toilet for females is not suitable for a regional office, incident management facility or regional training facility :-)
Hopefully it will all work out well for the services in SA - good luck!
Ahhhh..... SAFECOM isn't front-line though, is it.
It's a back-of-house shared-services thing.
As for due diligence... state assumption of emergency services & their assets
was a political event. Since when did due diligence & politics walk hand-in-hand? :evil:
cheers
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When I say front line I mean operational planning, training, operational management, & the conduct of operations.
SAFECOM should be administration, payroll, assets, combined OHS, Workers comp etc.
I get your point Alan, but the government is very good at arse covering & thats what Due diligence is - protecting your arse by knowing what you have that can bite you! In the broader sense of the words anyway (not just the stuff the bean counters go on about).
I thought that is what SAFECOM was formed for, to look after the combined administration functions of the 3 services - so that the 3 services could focus on the operational side! Even tenders, contracts, hire & fire(sacking) could be handled by them. They could even look after the RTO side of things instead of having 3 RTO's & the administration that goes with that! But at least they are starting to do something!
cheers
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That may have been what SAFECOM was intended to do when it was formed, now it seem to be a bottomless money pit that has a magnetic attraction for bean counters and anal retentive types............. OH and David, the worlds answer to chronic insomnia!.......psst(I hear they recruited heavily from parking inspector stocks throughout Australia) :wink:
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Really!!! - filtered hell! And I so dislike bean counters :-D Can't say anything about parking inspectors though :wink: I think I may have JUST "burned" any chance of getting a job with SAFECOM :wink:
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So SAFECOM has not done an audit on the all the thing they inherited until now. They should change their name to SAFECOMedy to describe their actions :evil:
Now onto more serious matters I know we all have knocked our respective VA's at some time and that wonderful word has been bandited around "unity". The only people who may have some idea of how good or bad some of the stations may be is Pip and Ashes considering how many of them they have photographed. If I wanted to have an independent advice of how bad things really are; we are faced with two options. The first is hope like madly that the organization that we are lobbying stuffs up the report and gives you the ammo that you are after. The alternative is that you do the hard work yourselves and produce a report of your own.
You have the pictures from the Pip and Ashes we all have contacts in the other brigade who can aid us in self auditing our brigades. Don't laugh as school do it all the time they have downloadable forms. Anyway most Captains should be able to tell you how the regional audit went with your Brigade and what areas needed work. If you just so happen to have a keen as mustard Captain the BOMP maybe already prepared to aid in any SFEC debate that you may wish to have. Overall all the information is out there guys we only have to but it together to get that picture we are so desperately after. Our VA's will be able to assist maybe at organising and the collating the data then analysing it. So as group we have our own ammo not the sanitized version that we are so use to or the anecdotal stories we love to turn into facts.
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Our regional AUDIT is done in June/JULY but from this year its being done in August of each year nothing like moving it a few months so that somethings get done before the audit.
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yeah...like why would you want things done, just so you can report on it....lets leave them hanging, broken, unrepaired or missing...so we can be proud of being average.
Its all a plot I reckon.....just to make you look bad personally Bill
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It is not a question being average or the timing as in the region that I am from they get done from march through to early may.
The more important thing is that it is being documented a documented that is dated. If you want to change the systems it is no use trying to bring in change but to create that change from the inside using the systems own tools against it.
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The trouble with the CFS now is we still don't treat it like the CFS and we are to nice, people just fix things or pay for it out their own pocket, so the CFS and SAFECOM don't know the true cost of running it.
I for one am writing an order for anything and everything !
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If you self audited, wouldn'y the documents be thrown out because it was an individually biased document ?
Every volunteer would like something better, so this would create a bias on the documents.
Personally, the audit needs to be compared against a standard.
It will be interesting if they are comparing the audit against either:
* government building standards
* SFEC
* OHS&W
* australian volunteering standards
* ????? something else ????
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* government building standards
* SFEC
* OHS&W
* australian volunteering standards
* ????? something else ????
To work through your points bajdas government standards are nice but have no legal standing unless they are refereed to by an appropriate piece of legislation. SFEC's; I have just had a look over the CFS 2000 version is a nice document but has no real information as it is too global in classifying the state and lacks the detail. OHS; is the only that the point can be argued due to the range the nature of the issue at hand.
To understand the process that DECS uses for the self administrated audits for OHS please have a look at the following link
http://www.decs.sa.gov.au/ohs/pages/injuryprevention/checklist_w/
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Guys, you are confusing the difference between an audit & a checklist(very nice by the way Mallee). Audits(both internal & external) are a systems check & are usually carried out by an independant auditor (whether internal or external like SAI Global). The checklists are just that, used to see how things are progressing (or not). If you wanted a good 'snap shot' of how you particular brigade/station/unit stacks up, get hold of the WorkcoverSA Self Insurance Audit, the National Self Insurer Audit tool or Safety Map. This will high light how well the system is working but not the physical environment. As all emergency services in SA are self insured you would quickly see what an audit is! However having been through an audit in the private sector & seen how they are conducted in the public sector - I don't know!!!! :roll: No audit has legal standing except to provide evidence of performance/ lack of. This is due to the fact that an audit is a perception thing & everyone is different regardless of how well developed the audit tool is! (or how well trained the the tool is :wink: )
But as I said those checklists are good & provide vital evidence for when things go bad - "yes we have reported that faulty door 3 times & nothing was done & here is the evidence!" Keep up the good work guys - cheers
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so is anything actually happening or was this just a bit of a rant?
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Several stations have been audited by an independent contractor - so at least a report can be presented re deficiencies to buildings....
Not sure how far the report goes in terms of reporting on stuff such as lack of space / inappropriate facilities, BUT at least there will be info on the state of repair / disrepair of what we currently have.
Not sure what the next step is meant to be... :|
Pip
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One of the stations in that article is now getting a upgrade which will see the roof lifted and roller door installed so as to make way for a new appliance its only a TEMP fix as the station is also to be replaced sometime soon...Not sure why they would waste money on doing a temp fix when the brigade has to move of the land that its on.....
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I believe CFS Corporate has also organised to sit down with the government and work out a better funding strategy for appliance and station maintenance as well.
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Nice....a Tea Cup Party...
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Oh my what ever a govt and CFS pow wow sitting down and hammering out a new formula. Yes that right it will be a formula that needs a Ph.D to understand let alone work it.
I would much prefer the money go to the Brigade direct rather than through regions so that, the little that is given is not fretted away to become a tube of no more gaps to keep the rain out. If I took a punt I bet there a few Brigades out there that would be able to do just as good if not better job at ensuring the money is spent wisely at maintain the stations. Alas we will also have those that could not be trusted with money as they just don't know when they are being ripped off.
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So who is going to bring the TIM TAMS ????
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So who is going to bring the TIM TAMS ????
Make it Laxettes, makes for an early finish :-P