SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SAAS => Topic started by: saambo on January 08, 2010, 05:23:07 PM
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Hi Guys,
Was having a break out the front of RAH today and spotted a mercedes sprinter van Ambulance enter off North Terrace which caught my eye because it was decked out in some hi viz decals which read South Australia Paramedical Services but had NSW numberplates! It drove up to ED and I went over to investiagate but as I got further it just took off LOL - Has anyone else seen it before? Wish I took a picture of ot :P
Also visiting RAH was a silver falcon gt with EMR numberplates.. interior reading lamps on passenger side and pretty sure dash flashers... Not that Workcare SA bloke ?? Sometime lastyear saw the same car going CAT1 down regency road :S
Cheers!
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Haha I was there too, but I didnt see those vehicles. I was stuck up in CVIU all day :(.
I have never seen that ambulance, although I saw a Victorian Ambulance parked at Harvey Norman at Marion once. I did a double take as I drove past.
Was the paint job similar to SAAS? Also did it have obvious lights?
Late last year I saw an ADF Sprinter too which was pretty cool.
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there are a few private ambulance services out there but they are non emergency as in they dont 000 calls as for the NSW paltes could just be a sprinter that was brought in from NSW
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nope.... Paramedical services is a New South Wales company setting up here in SA with a cpl of mining contracts
http://www.paramedical.com.au (http://www.paramedical.com.au)
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not to mention PTS work with a former SAAS CEO's help....
we all thought he retired 3 years ago!!
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ahhh....so thats where he ended up...interesting :lol: oh well....we should be able to predict their progress then :roll:
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lol - just don't ask for anything to get done in a hurry.
SA Health should like it though.....he always was a "Yes mininster" [insert kow tow here] type of CEO....
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:-).
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By the looks of their website they have been in business in NSW for since 1991 and do event work (watch out First Care and St. Johns), industrial medical work (watch out Idustrial Medic Services, Workcare :evil: and First Health), do PTS (watch out SAAS) and do first aid and ambulance training (watch out..... well most of pages for first aid trianing in the yellow pages lol :lol:)
and you're nieve enough to think this is a one horse town?? competition is good for everyone.....
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Joules is certainly excited about Paremedical Services. "Watch Out" everyone indeed.
A few contacts in NSWAS not so excited when mentioning same. See austlii (Federal Court) - Paramedical Services vs New South Wales Ambulance Service.
Case dismissed. 10 years and still no change in relationship.
Note to Hugh: Read transcript - just in case. We know how easy you find it to make friends.
Q1. Do you reckon CL got a case of dejavu and a panic attack when he saw Paramedical's GREEN uniforms?
Q2. Everyone is still mentioning WorkCare :evil:? Is that guy still around as I thought he went out of business. If anyone still sees him running around code ring SAPOL advising of date/time/location/direction and plate number. 'Filtered' Menace
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do you have a link to that one?
unless my 10 thumbs aren't doing their job properly - I couldn't find anything on AUSTLII
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Link:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/1999/548.html?query=^paramedical
Case Title:
Paramedical Services Pty Ltd v The Ambulance Service of New South Wales [1999] FCA 548 (5 May 1999)
The case has various elements to it. Whether NSWAS was right or wrong it highlights the difficulties of a private provider encroaching a space that is the domain of the Emergency Ambulance service.
Paramedical in NSW is in the same pigeon hole as WorkCare NSW and reportedly within NSWAS there is still a general dislike for both. Could just be case of sour grapes. The NSW Police and NSW Transport have also jumped on these entities to remove lights and sirens (sound familiar :-D).
SA now has the regulations (copied directly from Victoria) for Non-Emergency Ambulance providers so as long as everyone stays within the defined scope of PTS/ATS and no-one trys to play Emergency then all should be good.
The Federal Court Case example should put SAAS on alert that this little PSSA puppy bites if provoked (unless of course CL has more diplomatic channels in the event there are any little mishaps on the carpet).
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Gee doesn't SAAS want to keep anything that makes them $$$?
Ray has been trying to off this for ages, he has stated many times that emergency crews have no place doing first aid at public events, and yes....i'm sure he will be happy to save the overtime..lol
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oh dear 360......your clinical envy is showing... it IS possible for there to be another group of people in SA that are perfectly capable of treating said injury, who dont happen to work for SA Health....in fact they will have far better equipment than SAAS does to do so
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Where to start!
Joules - I agree with the issue raised as it harks back to my original statement "as long as people do not try to play Emergency all should be good". I would bet my left one that it is the very provider in this topic that will be doing the SAJC contract as they do a range of events in NSW. NSWAS raised the same issues regarding clinical practice/scope and capability. SAJC would be concerned solely with $$$ and the decreased risk of having to stop the races (and avoid TAB fines) by having an on-track Ambulance whilst SAAS scoups up the jockey/punter/other at the gate. The standby rate is also probably cheaper (given the cost of SAAS Paramedics these days on overtime :-D )
I thought these guys were meant to be Non-Emergency. They have just been licensed and it is like going straight for third base on a first date. Maybe PSSA should try taking SAAS out to dinner and a movie first before rushing straight in. (or maybe they already have).
Regrettably, we shall await the first coroners report :cry:.
CnD. Not sure if you know these guys or have seen inside their rigs (visit 4 Manton Street - WorkCare's old premises ) but I would suggest SAAS equipment is probably a little more upspec and capable (and current). Unless they are engaging experienced SAAS personnel (or have an Emergency Doctor on board) I would really have to question entering such a high risk pursuit. The family of maimed/deceased jockeys tend to make really big Professional Indemnity Claims and PI insurers love passing the buck back to the provider where there is clinical neg or other failures :-o
This little chickens sphncta does puckereth shut just thinking about all the scenarios :| :-o
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firstly Paramedical Services dont have the SAJC contract......another company, a SA one at that does I'm lead to believe. Given that they deal with emergency work now....no reason at all they cant deal with the races and anything that occurs there.
I'm not a proponent or involved with any of them, but I've seen enough to know that quality people exist outside of SAAS.....being prescious about being the only experts in town, makes us look like like we have the proverbial chip on our shoulder.
Given they they have had SAAS approve them, not sure what u guys are worried about?....or did they knock u back for a job?..lol
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Alright CnD. fair comments. Enlighten me.
Who is the provider licensed by SA Health to provide "Emergency Ambulance" services as defined, and pursuant to the Health Care Act 2008.
I reference the Health Care Act 2008 in particular as the Old Act transitional licenses will expire (shortly I suspect). NEPT (PTS/ATS) approvals only is my mail.
Emergency Ambulance approval only out in the areas/regions where resources are light (or don't exist) or on company boundaries/lands with approval to Cat transport to nearest local hospitals from company site (read/search the SA Government Gazette for a list). Examples"Frontier, Compasss, Heathgate Mine, BHP/OneSteel, APY Lands etc etc etc.
And last I checked SAAS don't approve providers (they wouldn't want the legal liability!)
I am not being prescious (or maybe I am by virtue of making that very statement) but I am certainly curious who is this "Emergency Ambulance Service" that I have yet to see. Or have they been right in front of my eyes the whole time and I just didn't appreciate that they were an "Emergency Ambulance".
Anyway. I might just have a chip. We'll review it in 6 months and see who has to buy who a Pepsi
PS. No job knock backs lately ... a few rebuffs from Mrs R Chicken though.. does that count as a 'job knock back' :-D.
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the first article is a typical Ambulance Union response.....no-one can do it better than our members.....and they miss their cushy overtime, so these other guys must be crap.
The second...well, doesnt really say much other than the people involved allegedly didnt hurry.
Just remember as well, that all these new guys will work under much more scrutiny than SAAS do. They will have all manner of people (like yourself) ready to jump on and publicise the smallest error or delay to suit their own ends. SAAS doesnt have the same external scrutiny and the public doesnt get to hear of hardly any of the screw ups, issues or failures. These are kept internal and "addressed" by clinical audit. Did the recent sacking of an ICP make the news?....nope. Should it have? In a perfect system open to public scrutiny, of course. You take the kudos as well as the lumps equally. If he worked for a private provider, you bet your arse it would have been trotted out by the AEU as proof of the privatisation demon.
My only point in all of this.....is SAAS isnt the sole bastion of quality care and expertise, and we shouldn't feel so prescious and threatened by those that dont wear a blue or green....or whatever colour uniform we end up with next week
Oh and lastly.......yes SAAS undertake the all of the investigative processes for licensing private providers, their recommendation goes to the Minister, who then signs off on it. The reality on the street.....SAAS aprove or not.
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Joules. Thanks for answering my question which crash'n'matt :roll: could not bring himself to do.
Crash., fcm is not a licensed provider of non-emergency ambulance and certainly is not licensed by Health as a provider of emergency ambulance services. I dont need to tell you that.
You might want to read the HC Act closely again and pay closer attention to the definitions. Also read the holding out. Qualified you are no doubt. Licensed by Health not. Infield, outfield and all places in between. Operating services using Ambulances (clearly defined what one is under the Act) is now regulated guys. Simply put - Old Act loose and filled with loopholes and interpretation.. New Act tight.
Clearly though I am no expert on this topic. Good luck. Im clucking off.
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I cannot believe the jealousy of the different services on the forum. As a newbie to this forum, just reading the comments I believe competition against SAAS is good as it may pull a few heads in and make the paras' improve their skill level and respect the other service providers. A bit of common courtesy goes a long, long way. I acknowledge that SAAS is the main Emergency ambulance provider for the public of SA and they have the rightful place in society.
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Worked with several of the Frist Care Medical guys and girls at the down hill mount bike champs and all of them were great to work with, normally on scene within 60seconds of something happening (and this was in a quarry where they had to carry all their gear in and out), during that time they dealt with some nasty falls one guy had a broken back, broken ribs, dislocated hip and left shoulder, fractured right wrist and no issues there having them on site made our job a whole lot easier
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So how will all these other companies affect SAAS? Will it make it harder for people to be employed by SAAS?
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If you read the Health Care Act 2009 properly, they will be issued with a temporary Restricted Non-Emergency Ambulance Licence which may be review 6 - 12 monthly (I think). The closest to a diploma I have is from the Ambulance Service in NT and that is equivalent to Cert 4 BEC. All I had to do was complete another 12 Modules to get the Diploma.
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Is there a more up to date Gazette?
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Unfortunately almost all of the aforementioned assumptions about Paramedical Services SA are incorrect. I share the concerns of 360Joules about private ambulance operations in South Australia, previous endeavors do nothing but tarnish new entrants who aim to provide the best possible service.
NB. Paramedical Services are in fact the only private ambulance service with a current license from the SA Health Department.
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360Joules, I would be glad to set it straight.
Paramedical Services is not my company, although I am admittedly an employee. As the website shows, Garry Mikhail is the managing director. Without divulging the operational status of Paramedical Services SA (PMS-SA), I can give some background to the operation in NSW and the expected performance of PMS-SA in the future.
PMS provides Pre-hospital care at a number of levels and in many and varied locations. As the first Private ambulance service to provide medical care to the motor sport industry, Bathurst 1000 etc., PMS has a high reputation for an excellent level of care and preparation at events the state over. We also participate in TV shoots, Work injury response (WIRS), and are a large RTO in the Sydney Metro and NSW area.
The training at PMS could be described as second to none in the private sector. With a former NSWAS, IC para & S.C.A.T paramedic & University lecturer as MD, and others training of NREMT-P instructor standard, there is no shortage of skill.
What many are alluding to on this forum, is the variability in standards of private ambulance providers. I like the constructive criticism illustrated thus far, including the aforementioned court case of Paramedical V. NSW Ambulance Service (NSWAS). My 'personal' feelings are that the level of care provided (high), is the impetus for NSWAS having issues with PMS. The fear of loss of work, when in fact we try to act along side, and in best conjunction with the service.
Personally, we have had no such issues with SAAS. I think they realise we are not here to steal their thunder, but work professionally and fluidly amongst them. I have been impressed with their (SAAS's) interest and genuine appreciation for our work thus far. PMS-SA does not have an emergency ambulance license, and works to all of the extensive standards imposed by SA Health.
I anticipate the company will have something to say to the forum, but until then, regard my comments as my personal opinion only.
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PMS pays rates and conditions based on the award. Staff are trained, and retested on an ongoing basis to the highest of standards.
I will leave it up to the readers of this forum to spot the PMS-SA ambulances and they will note that we are well equipped and completely capable.
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which award would that be?
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I have yet to see these PMS-SA vehicles around, although I suppose I will see them soon enough at the RAH.
I did know that a degree was needed to get into SAAS, I am starting uni this year with the hope of getting into the BHS(P) next year. I assumed the increase of private services meant less demand on SAAS and hence will mean less staff, but only in the PTS/ATS role.
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I dont understand why there is such a big hassle with the non emerg ambulance companies. As long as they know the legal boundries and are prepared to cooperate with SAAS if a pt deteriates to an emerg condition then the state of SA communities will have the benefit of capable pt transport :-D. All people should learn to get along we are all striving to have the same result patient care and the willing help the ill :-D
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Ahh Medic if it was only that easy!!!!. As you can see some of these companies are OK :-)
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I did not realise that there was so many operaters in the field. The only ones I Know are IMS ans Para Services. I agree that the shonky ones should be shut down and that the pt and public should safe from neglect. If you know any that I may be able to see about employment could you please email me as I a a student trying to get into the profession.I know this is probably asking a lot. Ta :-D
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360, you must be a station officer...smarter than the average bear
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I probably know you joules! I'm sure if I saw your face I'd recognise you :).
Still yet to see any of these other companies around.
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My mate was a PTS officer until he got into the RSD Program, good timing possibly?? :-D
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Spoke to my PSM the other night.
They said that a big player in PTS in Victoria has made an application with SA health to run a PTS company in SA. Medical Transport Services http://www.medicaltransport.com.au/ they are owned by GS4 (previously known as GSL/Group 4 a international company) http://www.au.g4s.com/
My manager says they are waiting for the final health nod to start running. They have vehicles and premises already in Adelaide somewhere ready to go.
I had a look at their website and the G4S website and they appear to do PTS across the UK in addition to little old Victoria. They have taken PTS off many UK ambulance services, that should keep our CEO happy! :roll:.
It appears they use new vehicles and employ staff with appropriate qualifications (in fact some higher levels than SAAS PTS/ATS staff :|).
It appears they do event standby work also.
Remains to be seen if they can run a ethical business and provide quality care, I guess time will tell.
If I was a SAAS PTS officer I would be just a little worried about my future.
Also, G4S is the company that provides the guards for Mt Gambier Prison and handle the prisoner movement and in court management. They are the guards you see sitting out the front of prisoner's rooms at the RAH (unless they are High 1 level prisoners).
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