SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: uniden on June 06, 2008, 05:41:56 PM
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Is there any big ticket items for the CFS/MFS in the state budget??? Cannot be bothered reading the whole thing. Some of last years budget new building projects were for 08/09 and beyond. Seaford and Pt Lincoln MFS etc.
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I did hear that some staff positions where to be relocated back to the big smoke,so you may see VSO and some BSO service's removed but that has been a on going think for a few months... has its good and bad points....
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$8.2 million on the Computer Aided Dispatch (CAD) project. The CAD project will replace the
emergency response management and dispatch systems currently in use within the
South Australian Fire and Emergency Services Commission, SAPOL and the SA Ambulance
Service;
Computer Aided Dispatch (CAD) Project
Completion due March 2010. The CAD Project is to be
completed in three stages and will replace the emergency
response management and dispatch systems currently in use
within the SA Fire and Emergency Services Commission,
$6.0 million for the construction of two new SA Metropolitan Fire Service fire stations at Seaford
and Paradise;
Seaford Fire Station
Paradise Fire Station
Completion due March 2009. Construction of a new fire
station at Paradise.
Commencement July 2008; completion due June 2010.
$5.8 million for the construction of a new SA Metropolitan Fire Service fire station and the
acquisition of a firefighting appliance in Port Lincoln;
Port Lincoln Fire Station
Completion due June 2009. Construction of a new fire station
at Port Lincoln to replace the existing ageing station.
Port Lincoln Firefighting Appliance
Completion due June 2009. Acquisition of an additional
firefighting appliance with a telescopic aerial boom to address
the risk of emergencies in high-rise buildings in Port Lincoln.
$15.9 million over four years for aerial firefighting, including an aircrane dedicated to South Australia, staffing for aerial firefighting supervision and operations management and improved fire retardant mixing infrastructure;
• $8.6 million over four years for 22 additional firefighters for the new Paradise Fire Station;
• $2.9 million over four years for community education on bushfires, enhanced training for bushfire management teams and the employment of a Regional Public Warnings Officer;
• $808 000 over three years for continuation of the government’s contribution to bushfire research;
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So nothing unexpected
You would thing there could be $4 million to replace aging hinos in CFS fleet?
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So once again CFS miss out.....
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• $8.6 million over four years for 22 additional firefighters for the new Paradise Fire Station;
(8,600,000/4)/22 = $97,727.27
That's not a bad wage...
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probaly the biggest thing i can see for the CFS is the funding of the CAD system with the completion date of 2010....
First time i have actually seen a date put to it.
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• $8.6 million over four years for 22 additional firefighters for the new Paradise Fire Station;
(8,600,000/4)/22 = $97,727.27
That's not a bad wage...
Likely that the $8.6m includes admin costs - superannuation, workcover premiums, training, equipment and PPE, allowances for sick and annual leave and of course payroll tax. All are cost associated with employing persons, all have to budgeted for.
Probably works out that "employee" would be lucky to recieve 60-70% of that budget in actual wages.
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So nothing unexpected
You would thing there could be $4 million to replace aging hinos in CFS fleet?
That funding is allocated to the CFS in the annual budget under capital works? or another banner..
The listed items are specially funded items that wouldnt normally be completed? CFS stations dont come under that banner i guess.
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Not sure what the problem is:-
Money for skycrane
Money for Management team training
SACAD
new trucks currently being phased in
new positions
So what is the problem?
Ageing Hino's - how often are they used? really!
When are people going to learn that its not a bottomless pit?
By the way salary & FTE's are calculated as TR that is total renumeration as was said previously - as some one on salary I know :-(
Finally we lost our Regional training officer - no money!
So while it seems that CFS missed out - there are vollies worse of than you!
cheers
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Bit like all that USAR gear the SES got, I mean how often is it used, just get some sexy new chainsaws and you will be laughing.
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• $8.6 million over four years for 22 additional firefighters for the new Paradise Fire Station;
(8,600,000/4)/22 = $97,727.27
That's not a bad wage...
Likely that the $8.6m includes admin costs - superannuation, workcover premiums, training, equipment and PPE, allowances for sick and annual leave and of course payroll tax. All are cost associated with employing persons, all have to budgeted for.
Probably works out that "employee" would be lucky to recieve 60-70% of that budget in actual wages.
Fair enough - I didn't consider all that. Cheers :)
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well rather than spend $15 mill on a skycrane we could use the national one and put the money into equipment and training and use the federal governments skycrane.
But yeah the sky crane looks better on the news than a few 34ps
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Theres 15.9 million wasted, before we even get started.
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Couple of things Pumprescue
1 USAR is federally funded mostly
2 What new USAR gear?
Also there is more to SES than chainsaws. For example one of the biggest risks here is the river & yet we don't have one "suitable" rescue boat at this end of the river (so we are told anyway). And no money to get one either & state marine rescue is under staffed as well - we share one person with the sea rescue squadrons.
No money for any new Standard rescue vehicles, nor new quick response vehicles either. Yet virtually every CFS brigade here has new vehicles - the latest a QAV at Barmera, so who really is getting a raw deal?
By the way any new SES vehicles you see are in fact fleet hire, which are no more the tugs for trailers(and they want to reduce the number of trailers).
But we will do what we always do - lots with filtered all!
And I asked for a new chainsaw last equipment bid round - hasn't come eyt :wink:
cheers
cheers
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You don't need money for a boat, because the government's plan is to have a river with no water soon. :lol:
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Its all about looks guys, no one gives a damn about the day to day stuff we do, as long as we look good on the news.
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correct on both counts - sadly. but with only a month to go its not really worth worrying about
Anyway take it easy
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Its all about looks guys, no one gives a damn about the day to day stuff we do, as long as we look good on the news.
You mean as long as the government looks good on the news...
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Skycrane what a filtered joke, waste of money and if you talk to those at the top its no good outside of the adelaide region due to water low water and the logistics of it is crazy.....Now does not CFS have to pay $1million out for the next few years after the westcoast fire???
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...if you talk to those at the top its no good outside of the adelaide region due to water low water and the logistics of it is crazy...
You don't have to go to the top to hear that...
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well what wuld all u guys that think the sky crane is a waste of money spend the money on instead?? other aircraft or more appliances or training or what???
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all three of what you suggest. And mabey put some money into making risk assessments more volunteer friendly.
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Alternatives to skycranes have been discussed in a few threads, but try this one:
SA's Fixed wing firefighting aircraft (http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php/topic,1713.0.html)
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all three of what you suggest. And mabey put some money into making risk assessments more volunteer friendly.
Say what? I didn't think that the risk assessment matrix could get any simpler. The whole risk assessment and response planning process is one of the most simple that I have seen outside of some of the digital ones getting around.
More money for training and appliances wouldn't go astray.
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id think the way money is spent or allocated would differ hugely from region to region and even further group to group..
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No i meant the risk assessment process for making adjustments to trucks and new equipment which currently means many good ideas get put in th to hard basket. Not response planning that seems to work so don;t touch it :-D
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Spend the money on basic needs,there are stations out there without power,toilets,running water and then you have appliances that are in a poor state that need to be fixed and some of these appliances are less than 3 years old.......It should be up to groups as to how they spend the money but it does need to be controled by the group's and not put into some regional pot of GOLD.... Group's should be allowed to buy gear (PPE/hoses/foam/ETC) where they can get a better deal rather than one supplier .. may be its time CFS but a list of approved suppliers and that it was past onto each group and they did the phone call to see who gives the better deal.....
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No i meant the risk assessment process for making adjustments to trucks and new equipment which currently means many good ideas get put in th to hard basket. Not response planning that seems to work so don;t touch it :-D
Do the paperwork, dot the I's cross the T's and you'd be surprised what can be approved. Failing that grab the angle grinder and the welding gear and start adjusting that truck!
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ok But evey time i have suggested ideas, before thought is even applied the answer from my superiors is "Nah to hard". Personally i think it should be "Here are the foms"
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personally im pretty happy with what gear we have and the appliances..im sure there is the odd few out there that need work or replacing but same old story if u don do the callouts u get put to bottom of list. makes a very intersting point of discussion though
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personally im pretty happy with what gear we have and the appliances..im sure there is the odd few out there that need work or replacing but same old story if u don do the callouts u get put to bottom of list. makes a very intersting point of discussion though
It's not just those doing very few jobs that get forgotten, we were on the top of the list for calls last year and are still working with trucks that are far from new.
It's tough when you see brigades doing 7 calls a year getting a brand new rig and yet we do over 460 jobs and can't replace our fifteen year old 24.
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I hear ya, seems like your area isn't politically important enough.
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May be its time for change with how the system work's when it comes to allocating who gets a new station or new appliance,is it far that one hills brigade has had two new appliances in 18Months???.. When brigade's that do over 300 jobs a year are still running around in old appliances and should have a pumper rather than a 24p or a 34p... It has nothing to do with politics it has to do with those who sit at region and say YES or NO....
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I do believe that it is up to the brigade in question to put forward a business plan if they want different trucks. Engage the groups help, engage the regions help there are plenty of good people paid and vols that are willing to help your brigade get a different truck if you can justify it. Specific Risks etc. Instead of always bashing the system how about making it work for you, you might just be pleasantly supprised how it can work in your favour.
I believe that your old brigade NCTE have put forward plans and have received plenty of assistance from the region to get what they want.
perhaps some one from up that way can shed some light on it???
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mattb is that M Vale 24 that was on the island in december???
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Yes My old brigade did put in a plan and had support from the group and the regional staff at the time,but they have been knocked back over the last few years for a number of items... We all have needs and we still need to get it right across the state when it comes to station's and appliances..
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what sort of stuff did they get nocked back on? was it trucks or equipment
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mattb is that M Vale 24 that was on the island in december???
Yes Morphett Vale 24 spent a few weeks on the Island, it came back with a few melted bits n pieces and a couple more battle scars, yet still we clean it up repair it all and have our guys spend hours making it look better than some of these brand new trucks sitting in stations out in the bush.
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RCR gear for the pumper when the rescue was well out of town and other small gear.
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Well Bill I'm not surprised - very few brigades/ units can have more than one set of RCR gear to cover that contingency! Those units who have more than one payed for it themselves & they will not be replaced or maintained by the system.
If your rescue isn't around, wouldn't someone else be defaulted?
After all you did say a long way out of town, so therefore there should be a backup plan before the rescue is placed out of area. Just my thoughts of course!
cheers
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Well Bill I'm not surprised - very few brigades/ units can have more than one set of RCR gear to cover that contingency! Those units who have more than one payed for it themselves & they will not be replaced or maintained by the system.
If your rescue isn't around, wouldn't someone else be defaulted?
After all you did say a long way out of town, so therefore there should be a backup plan before the rescue is placed out of area. Just my thoughts of course!
cheers
Nearest rescue backup is about 45mins away. Dont know that you can really have a backup plan apart from giving the naracoorte brigade a second set of rescue gear.
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yea i can prob put my hand up for a couple of those scars....lol was best truck we saw over there tho she still goes alright
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RCR gear for the pumper when the rescue was well out of town and other small gear.
The region actually have written a number of plans to eleviate that inc removing hazmat gear from the rescue truck. But the brigade is not keen on that. (not the regions fault) You cant be every where all of the time and you cant have $5-$7K of gear just sitting around just in case your main rescue truck is out of town(would be nice if money grew on trees)
The fact that since the brigade has had a stand alone rescue vehicle, quite some years, they have never been caught out on an rcr job. Some im told.
The fact of the matter is that if you use the system, and can justify the equipment, then often you will get what you want!!
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Nearest rescue backup is about 45mins away. Dont know that you can really have a backup plan apart from giving the naracoorte brigade a second set of rescue gear.
And if there is a 3rd rescue job? Give them a third truck too?
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RCR gear for the pumper when the rescue was well out of town and other small gear.
You cant be every where all of the time and you cant have $5-$7K of gear just sitting around just in case your main rescue truck is out of town(would be nice if money grew on trees)
If thats the attitude you wish to take, then how about we sell all the usar equipment the SES has, as how often does that get used? What about all the CBR equipment? how often do we have a terroist attack? When was the last time some of the smaller, lesser known brigades had an entrapment? yet they still have a set of rescue gear.
Works both ways!
Just for the record, i know of a couple of times they have been caught out of town and had a second rescue. and considering the nearest rescue appliances struggle for trained operators then i dont see how there can be such an arguement for not allowing a second set of gear. Also i dont think they are asking for a full set, simply a combi tool and what ever that comes with (im not in a rescue brigade, so im not sure what is involved.)
[edit: fixed quoting]
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We all have needs and the fact of the matter is that 45mins back up for a RCR is a long way and the brigade was only asking for a combi tool which CFS did have a couple of spare's sitting around in a shed.......
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If the CFS got smart and took a good look at most road crash rescues performed, then they might see that there is nothing wrong with giving certain brigades Rapid Intervention gear, or doubling up at a rescue brigade. This helps with both the "Just in case" times with multiple calls, as well as when you need that one extra ram at a rescue.
Now if only the designation between Heavy and Light Rescue had been kept...
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All fair points - by the way USAR is mostly funded by the Feds as I said. And its not $5 - $7k for the tools, you need to factor in cost of hoses and a pump as well. Plus all of the other gear as well approx all up $20k - $30k! thats new of course.
And in some areas of the state 45 minutes is a short time, I know thats not right but we live in a real world.
Your backup would be from Penola (54kms),Bordertown (81 kms), thats not too bad considering one is to the North & one to the south would lessen travel time & you are covered to the west as well!
So sorry Bill & Cameron it's still "nice to have" not essential or if you think you really have a need, raise the money yourselves & buy your own set (we did that for a second set of cutters :wink: ).
As for the brigades or units that have the gear but don't do many jobs, you could take it off them for your just in case scenario - but what happens when they get their 1 in 10 year job?
Anyway I guess it's your problem & it will all sought itself out one day :wink:
cheers
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Fox Mulder must be a CFS staff member, sounds like the usual thing they would say. I suppose, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, doesn't surprise me that most staff seem to be pulling the pin.
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If the CFS got smart and took a good look at most road crash rescues performed, then they might see that there is nothing wrong with giving certain brigades Rapid Intervention gear, or doubling up at a rescue brigade. This helps with both the "Just in case" times with multiple calls, as well as when you need that one extra ram at a rescue.
Now if only the designation between Heavy and Light Rescue had been kept...
Totally agree with you there numbers, alot of damage can be done with a set of RI gear.
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May be FOX should come out and say if he is a staff member as it would only be staff members or Naracoorte briagde members who know the story....
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As I am no longer a member of the Naracoorte brigade I wont be discussing the RCR gear....
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May be FOX should come out and say if he is a staff member as it would only be staff members or Naracoorte briagde members who know the story....
Not a staff member and not with naracoorte. Do have some friends in ncte though.
Because i choose to hear both sides of a story before making a informed comment does not make me a staff member. I choose to listen when told all of the reasons that decisions are being made and not just the reasons that i dont like or are able to easilly bitch about. Far too much bashing of the system goes on, like i said before if you learn to work with the system and the staff then outcomes will more often fall your way
As I am no longer a member of the Naracoorte brigade I wont be discussing the RCR gear....
What happened with ncte did you move away?All fair points - by the way USAR is mostly funded by the Feds as I said. And its not $5 - $7k for the tools, you need to factor in cost of hoses and a pump as well. Plus all of the other gear as well approx all up $20k - $30k! thats new of course.
And in some areas of the state 45 minutes is a short time, I know thats not right but we live in a real world.
Your backup would be from Penola (54kms),Bordertown (81 kms), thats not too bad considering one is to the North & one to the south would lessen travel time & you are covered to the west as well!
So sorry Bill & Cameron it's still "nice to have" not essential or if you think you really have a need, raise the money yourselves & buy your own set (we did that for a second set of cutters :wink: ).
As for the brigades or units that have the gear but don't do many jobs, you could take it off them for your just in case scenario - but what happens when they get their 1 in 10 year job?
Anyway I guess it's your problem & it will all sought itself out one day :wink:
cheers
Lucindale to the west 45 ks Padthaway to the nth 48ks edenhope across the border to the east 50ks surrounded by back up really
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I have gone to one of our rural brigade's for some a rest and to relax and that is all that i am saying on the matter....
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RCR gear for the pumper when the rescue was well out of town and other small gear.
You cant be every where all of the time and you cant have $5-$7K of gear just sitting around just in case your main rescue truck is out of town(would be nice if money grew on trees)
If thats the attitude you wish to take, then how about we sell all the usar equipment the SES has, as how often does that get used? What about all the CBR equipment? how often do we have a terroist attack? When was the last time some of the smaller, lesser known brigades had an entrapment? yet they still have a set of rescue gear.
Works both ways!
Just for the record, i know of a couple of times they have been caught out of town and had a second rescue. and considering the nearest rescue appliances struggle for trained operators then i dont see how there can be such an arguement for not allowing a second set of gear. Also i dont think they are asking for a full set, simply a combi tool and what ever that comes with (im not in a rescue brigade, so im not sure what is involved.)
[edit: fixed quoting]
now cam have just got off the phone with a long serving lt with ncte. he cann't remember of any occasion in the last 20yrs that ncte has benn caught out with there rescue truck out of town i guess your not as informed as you think
would love to have dates of said occasions
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Mulder is definelty a staff member, thinks like a staff member, typical staff attitude "we don't need to be prepared for anything, we will just wait until we screw it up, so long as we have half baked eqipment and I let the paperwork work for brigades trying to upgrade SFEC's mounts up I will be right until I leave and move onto the next job or change positions" I have only met maybe 3 people in CFS worth their weight. I think most of them have left now though. Clown Fire Service.
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RCR gear for the pumper when the rescue was well out of town and other small gear.
You cant be every where all of the time and you cant have $5-$7K of gear just sitting around just in case your main rescue truck is out of town(would be nice if money grew on trees)
If thats the attitude you wish to take, then how about we sell all the usar equipment the SES has, as how often does that get used? What about all the CBR equipment? how often do we have a terroist attack? When was the last time some of the smaller, lesser known brigades had an entrapment? yet they still have a set of rescue gear.
Works both ways!
Just for the record, i know of a couple of times they have been caught out of town and had a second rescue. and considering the nearest rescue appliances struggle for trained operators then i dont see how there can be such an arguement for not allowing a second set of gear. Also i dont think they are asking for a full set, simply a combi tool and what ever that comes with (im not in a rescue brigade, so im not sure what is involved.)
[edit: fixed quoting]
now cam have just got off the phone with a long serving lt with ncte. he cann't remember of any occasion in the last 20yrs that ncte has benn caught out with there rescue truck out of town i guess your not as informed as you think
would love to have dates of said occasions
I know of one example last year or the year before? and i have been informed by others that there have been several other incidents in previous years. maybe my informer is incorrect? i have no idea, i can only go on the info im given.
Will try and search the date of the incident but in the mean time the details were - Nara rescue were backing up Pad rescue in Pad, when they were called to an industrial accident in joanna. From memory crews responded in pumper and used penolas rescue equipment to free the person as penola had no or limited rescue personnel. Delays may have been incurred because of this situation im not real sure (fair chance there was).
No need to take it out on me. Im just commenting on the info i have been supplied over the years by several members in the know (heck they may not know what they are talking about) and im not even a member of their group, so on a personal level i couldnt give a crapo!
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Hey FOX Naracoorte does not have any loner serving LT'S......Most have only been LTS for 2/3 years.... but back on subject how many new stations will be built this year??? and I did here that a region one brigade is getting a nsw type two pumper??
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Hey FOX Naracoorte does not have any loner serving LT'S......Most have only been LTS for 2/3 years.... but back on subject how many new stations will be built this year??? and I did here that a region one brigade is getting a nsw type two pumper??
thats burnside pumper, Volvo/with a "similar to type 2 pumper" body.
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Back on topic is a good idea :)
Be careful not to chastise people due to your beliefs. Being employed by the CFS does not necessarily taint ones opinions, besides it not up to us to decide what someone else does for a living.
Happy posting.
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Hey FOX Naracoorte does not have any loner serving LT'S......Most have only been LTS for 2/3 years.... but back on subject how many new stations will be built this year??? and I did here that a region one brigade is getting a nsw type two pumper??
thats burnside pumper, Volvo/with a "similar to type 2 pumper" body.
yep kinda the same, apart from the two rear hose reels.
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Hey FOX Naracoorte does not have any loner serving LT'S......Most have only been LTS for 2/3 years.... but back on subject how many new stations will be built this year??? and I did here that a region one brigade is getting a nsw type two pumper??
thats burnside pumper, Volvo/with a "similar to type 2 pumper" body.
yep kinda the same, apart from the two rear hose reels.
Its sounding more and more like the current Class 3 NSWFB buildup, yet just on a Volvo, not a Scania.
Hey SACFS, SAMFS have fantastic appliances you can order too! And the workshops aren't on the other side of the country!
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Can we get them in red so they go faster.....
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Can we get them in red so they go faster.....
Yeah but not with the taxi stripe :-P