SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Fire Fighter Training => Topic started by: Cameron Yelland on February 18, 2008, 04:01:08 PM
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Gday,
Just wondering what people think about the courses CFS offer at the moment and what courses should be added.
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The courses are good, and the fact that they are being brought inline with the PSTP units is great. More courses should be added, especially:
PUAFIR302A - Suppress urban fire
PUAFIR309A - Operate pumps
PUAOPE003A - Navigate in urban and rural environments
PUAVEH001A - Drive vehicles under operational conditions
PUAFIR307A - Monitor hazardous atmospheres
Wishful thinking:
PUASAR003A - Undertake technical rescue
PUASAR004A - Undertake vertical rescue
PUASAR005A - Undertake confined space rescue
PUASAR006A - Undertake trench rescue
PUASAR007A - Undertake structural collapse rescue
The two most important ones I believe would be Suppress urban fire and Drive vehicles under operational conditions.
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PUAFIR307A - Monitor Hazardous Atmospheres is on the state training program this year. :)
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Ah its back? Last I heard it was still on a hiatus while they decided what to do with the course. Thats awesome news.
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I don't see a problems with the courses that they offer and those brigades that have a specialist function should be pleased with what is on offer. The problems of concern is for brigades that don't have a specialist function or those that attend a variety of incidents but need that bit extra of training to be effective. A couple of courses that may be of benefit to these brigade include
PUAFIR202A Respond to isolated/remote structure fire
PUASAR001A Participate in a rescue operation
PUAFIR309A Operate pumps
PUAFIR206A Check installed fire safety systems
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I believe that you will see these courses being available or having RPL availability in the not too distant future. That's the word from inside the STC offices.
PUAFIR309A - Operate pumps
PUAFIR206A - Check installed fire safety systems
PUAFIR302A - Suppress urban fire
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PUAFIR206A - Check installed fire safety systems
So are CFS then going to issue Sprinkler Kits to all relevant brigades?
Good god, we wont know ourselves!
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So are CFS then going to issue Sprinkler Kits to all relevant brigades?
it's been shelved due to water restrictions
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PUASAR003A - Undertake technical rescue
PUASAR004A - Undertake vertical rescue
PUASAR005A - Undertake confined space rescue
PUASAR006A - Undertake trench rescue
PUASAR007A - Undertake structural collapse rescue
Sorry Numbers, I think you missed one - PUASAR 002A Undertake Road Accident rescue
However don't you think these competencies are better served by the SES Rescue branch of SAFECOM? - Sorry mate have to stir the pot :-D
What you suggest is again more duplication, I know you want to be the "person of the minute" but really when you said in another post " a bowline is ok to lower someone short distances" really makes me wonder whether you guys are best placed to undertake high risk RESCUE activities. The Portuguese Bowline is the only suitable knot for the lowering of people - check your manuals!
Also it was your service who didn't want USAR, to participate in USAR level Two, Technical Rescue, Confined Space Rescue, Vertical rescue skills are required.
The skills gained then mean you can do trench & structural collapse.
Then you would want more gear, then what?
Instead why not focus on what you guys are good at - fighting filtered fires?
You want heavy pumpers, aerial platforms etc
When is it going to end? As I said in the post on BBF1 check the RFS training web site, its certainly does not cover everything you do however at least they are getting there & they DON'T do rescue! If you want to be a rescuer do yourself a favour and join SES :wink:
Cheers
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Some MFS appliances now carry confined space BA sets and harneses. Some of the hatches you see that are marked confined space only, you would need to be a string bean to fit in there..lol.
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Why dont the SES know all's (they know who they are) get there own forum so us Firefighters can discuss real emergency service training and issues...
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Chook, PUASAR 002A Undertake Road Accident rescue - Is already part of the CFS RCR course.
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Thanks Rescue same as ours.
Why dont the SES know all's (they know who they are) get there own forum so us Firefighters can discuss real emergency service training and issues...
fair call that way those of you who feel threatened (you know who you are) can sit around a whinge without fear or whatever.
That is the real problem with the emergency services in this state - some are so narrow minded that they can't see beyond their own service!
The point I was making was that those courses fit neatly with USAR - which is an area that the CFS decided it didn't want to be a part of, now all of a sudden some members of this forum want to do the training courses -Why?
Remember K55 in many areas of the state CFS/MFS just do fire thats it!
I know that in others both services undertake the rescue role, same as SES doing the fire fighting role (granted in very unique circumstances).
So to imply that the only "real" emergency services have Fire in their title is an insult!
But thats your own personal opinion so be it - one day you may change your mind :wink:
Have a great day cheers
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K55 in response to your post ,regarding SES and their involvement in what you see as the domain of MFS-CFS ,perhaps you need to have a rethink about your commitment to your service.
In all of the emergency services there exists catchphrases, "to serve and protect","volunteers protecting our community for life" and so on ,they are the core values of our services, not "love your sister and dont look outside the family" :wink:
I hope your post was just a wind up and not a true reflection of your beliefs and mental capacity!
Chook and other SES "know it alls" keep up the postings ,I may not agree with everything you say, but we will ultimately learn a lot from each other.
Cheers Jaff
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I believe that you will see these courses being available or having RPL availability in the not too distant future. That's the word from inside the STC offices.
PUAFIR309A - Operate pumps
PUAFIR206A - Check installed fire safety systems
PUAFIR302A - Suppress urban fire
finally :D Quite sure a lot would love to do this course.
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However don't you think these competencies are better served by the SES Rescue branch of SAFECOM?
Being either orange or yellow does not matter as the person who wants help does not really care and with the number of duel purpose SES / CFS out there who cares who does the training along as someone is trained for the job they are about to do
really makes me wonder whether you guys are best placed to undertake high risk RESCUE activities. The Portuguese Bowline is the only suitable knot for the lowering of people - check your manuals!
No argument with that comment - If the training is not to a particular standard then we could be in a spot of trouble. Then saying that Jaff you are also right we are there to protect life property and the environment having the word fire and emergency can be a misnomer as I know of CFS brigades that do more SES type work than CFS type of work in a stereotype work. course need to be done to a standard and this does not necessary equate to being a public safety training unit it could be an Australian standard or other recognized standard
Maybe the question should be; should both the SES and CFS training become one rather than have a double up on every thing. The mapping course is a prime example that come to mind whee both the SES and CFS develop a course along the same lines where as resources could of been better spent on having a single course using the same procedures between the services rather than two different sets
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Why dont the SES know all's (they know who they are) get there own forum so us Firefighters can discuss real emergency service training and issues...
Why don't you grow up, pull your head in, or clear out.
It's attitudes like that, in any of the services, that gives me the curries.
We're all of varying background, ability & confidence. If you can't afford someone a modicum of respect, when at the least they give time, effort & money to the good of the community, then stay home.
End rant.
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Thanks you said it for me littlejohn!
This is starting to get ridiculous, volunteers should have respect for one another, not spend their time bagging one another!
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....Maybe the question should be; should both the SES and CFS training become one rather than have a double up on every thing. The mapping course is a prime example that come to mind whee both the SES and CFS develop a course along the same lines where as resources could of been better spent on having a single course using the same procedures between the services rather than two different sets
Fully agree, but I believe politics stopped the idea. Unfortunately a few employees left when Media combined into a single entity.
So I understand the SAFECOM Training group (which is to do back office, TRK's, etc) hopefully will stop the duplication in the frontline training area. The manager was appointed a few weeks ago.
Interesting that Information Technology jobs for SAFECOM are currently being advertised.... hmmmm should I apply.......
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Interesting that Information Technology jobs for SAFECOM are currently being advertised.... hmmmm should I apply.......
hehe go for it Bajdas! be aware one of the computers decided to burn this morning, so a replacement program should be created ;)
id like to see if theres a IT position at the ASO1 or ASO2 level ;)
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What you suggest is again more duplication, I know you want to be the "person of the minute" but really when you said in another post " a bowline is ok to lower someone short distances" really makes me wonder whether you guys are best placed to undertake high risk RESCUE activities. The Portuguese Bowline is the only suitable knot for the lowering of people - check your manuals!
Firstly, I should clarify the Bowline comment, I was referring to the fact that as it is a strong, loop forming knot, that had a variety of uses. This included lowering things, which, in a (very tight) pinch could be used to lower a person from say a roof or first floor. The same way a BA set can be used for forced entry or a Halligan can be used as an anchor for rope work. They are not *meant* to be used like that but if the situation deems it necessary, then with a calculated risk it can be done. (never seen the Portuguese Bowline either...)
If we are talking high-risk rescue situations, with time on your hands, then of course you are going to have full cordage rigging and nothing is going to be left to chance. It goes without saying the person being rescued would be secured with a sling harness at the very minimum.
However don't you think these competencies are better served by the SES Rescue branch of SAFECOM? - Sorry mate have to stir the pot grin
Chook, I know what is better served by the SES Rescue part of SAFECOM, and that is BBQ'd foods, such as sausages and onions :P
Also it was your service who didn't want USAR
As much as it may have been 'my service' that didn't want USAR, it doesn't mean that I have to tow the line laid by my service. I am quite happy to have my own opinion on how things can be worked. God forbid I show it occasionally. Now what would happen to this place if we all towed the line?
Instead why not focus on what you guys are good at - fighting filtered fires?
As much as we are not stuck in the 70's and 80's where the fire service's idea of RCR was sledgehammers, hacksaws, crowbars and that new fangeld 'Air chisler' I can understand where you are coming from in your opinions of Rescue providers. You come from a reasonably rural areas where the SES do (and do it well) Rescue of all kinds, and the Fire Services both really only fight fires (as shown by your local SAMFS's Rescue Stowage). From this I can easily understand your horror when someone suggests that the fire service would be adequate for some rescue work.
What you don't seem to understand is that most people who have a poor opinion of the SES or think that the Fire Service should take on a larger rescue capacity are those from the urban fringe where the SES couldn't rescue a sausage off a BBQ and would happily set up a L3 IMT for a Tree Down job. For the urban fringe dwellers its not a huge jump to take on a few bits and pieces of rescue more than what is already done by the CFS, seeing as though most of the 'rescue' training and equipment can be crossed over into firefighting and operations undertaken at fires. This goes without mentioning at all that the local SES are, as suggested above, worse than useless.
For this simple reason, I know that we will never ever agree on much rescue-wise but hey. It makes for some fun.
As far as sticking to what we do best goes, we will happily stick to Fires and Rescue ;)
You want heavy pumpers, aerial platforms etc
When is it going to end?
Sorry for all of the discussion about Heavy Pumpers and Aerials. Its not like this is a Firefighting Forums or anything...
Try to imagine SES units not getting gear to appropriatly cover their risks, yet be told by SES HQ that all is well, and please just be quiet. Thats the Pumper debate in a nutshell. Aerials, well, that was me trying to get some stimulating, non SAAS bashing discussion around here.
As I said in the post on BBF1 check the RFS training web site
The Way the RFS website is laid out for its listing of training courses is great, its a pity that the service is self is a good decade, atleast, behind the CFS.. And they don't even do rescue OR Hazmat. They can't even get their single specialisation right :P
"Village Firefighter" sounds more like Village People to me...
If you want to be a rescuer do yourself a favour and join SES
I've done myself a favour, I'm happily a Rescuer wearing Yellow, but thanks all the same ;)
Why dont the SES know all's (they know who they are) get there own forum so us Firefighters can discuss real emergency service training and issues...
You are an idiot.
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Numbers, you would hate to have me BBQ anything seriously I like it well done :-D
However used to be able to cook a mean Beef Burgundy :wink: :wink:
And I agree we could quite easily combine trg, just spent this weekend down the South East helping run a map reading course, qualify some more trainers & help one unit with induction. One of the people were from a CFS/SES unit, from down that way - he will soon be a trainer in the new course.
I think its the way of the future!
I liked all of the discussions on different appliances, as we don't have such stuff.
I was thinking about being a "Village Fire fighter" or was that village idiot?
Finally if our metro crews are really that bad - maybe you have a valid point, so I humbly apologise. And to clear up a point the bowline comment - the Portuguese Bowline is the only safe BOWLINE for people lowering - other knots like figure 8 loops etc are of course fine! In my ideal world specially selected trainers would train you guys in rescue techniques where required, just like some of your vertical guys. And the guys selected for being the trainers would of course be screened for "Tosser Virus".
Anyway cheers Numbers your insiteful comments are always appreciated by me & I will miss them once I go!
cheers
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Sad thing about the media sections and SES's Judith Bleechmore has made the move from SES, to SAAS Manager Corporate Communications.
The biggest issue is BA courses or the lack of them to be precise, along with the 100's still waiting for their PBI Gold.....18 months WTF :-o
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Was talking to a DGO down south and they have been waiting well over 2 years for PBI gold,so why not give them level 3 nomax?? If lion can't keep up then CFS need to do something as brigade's are going to working fire's and wearing level one gear with CABA and before you start jumping up and down about level one gear we used to do it for years......
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lets tell the CFSVA :-D
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Was talking to a DGO down south and they have been waiting well over 2 years for PBI gold,so why not give them level 3 nomax?? If lion can't keep up then CFS need to do something as brigade's are going to working fire's and wearing level one gear with CABA and before you start jumping up and down about level one gear we used to do it for years......
I have said it before it is not Lion.....That cause these delays!!!! They can meet almost any demand. Look else where for someone to blame. :roll: Like the agencies
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Try getting the orange stripes in a fairly short period of time.. Was told a couple months wait at one stage.. - (Yellow however was not a problem, guessing they had more stocked)..
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Try getting the orange stripes in a fairly short period of time.. Was told a couple months wait at one stage.. - (Yellow however was not a problem, guessing they had more stocked)..
That's cause there is more of us CFS buggers :-D
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PUAFIR202A Respond to isolated/remote structure fire
This would be a good course to make available especially for all of those brigades like Roxby Downs,Andamooka who are stationed out in the middle of no where and have to deal with remote structural fires
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I do wonder how isolated/remote structure fires differ from 'normal' structure fires apart from time taken to arrive and water supply.
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I do wonder how isolated/remote structure fires differ from 'normal' structure fires apart from time taken to arrive and water supply.
Not to mention where you get your additional resources from, but the structure would probably be on the ground by then.
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"CFSRES" Broom and shovel priority one for slab clearance :-D
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Unless you got there really fast and used your CFB techniques to use minimal amount of water on the job :wink:
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The respond to isolated/remote structure fire could mean responding to house fires on cattle properties out in the middle of nowhere up in the outback areas where the only water supply could be a dam :-)
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PUAFIR202A Respond to isolated/remote structure fire
This would be a good course to make available especially for all of those brigades like Roxby Downs,Andamooka who are stationed out in the middle of no where and have to deal with remote structural fires
Roxby is fairly heavily populated. Would be no different to any other major town.
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The respond to isolated/remote structure fire could mean responding to house fires on cattle properties out in the middle of nowhere up in the outback areas where the only water supply could be a dam :-)
Yep, and buildings burn so differently in the sticks eh? So much so that it requires a separate AFAC module?
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The respond to isolated/remote structure fire could mean responding to house fires on cattle properties out in the middle of nowhere up in the outback areas where the only water supply could be a dam :-)
That'd be my area..only water supply being dams, possibly tanks at the property....although we aren't quite outback areas, or the middle of nowhere!!
Pip
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Correct we are fairly well populated, but we struggle for numbers (we wish we had numbers (the person):wink:). Mooka is 30mins, Woomera is 50 & but we can call on the BHP ESOs for extra crew. There structure jobs i have had to go to at Mooka & Glendambo have been as Jaff said Broom and shovel priority one for slab clearance.
The respond to isolated/remote structure fires course is really just about fighting fire in structure that is by its self ie no exposures, you still go through the same topics, arrival, entry, firefighting techniques etc etc. Its really just a basic structure fire cause, no CFB, Tact Vent etc.
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Then there's the chainsaw courses, you do it 5 years later you struggle to get back on one to stay accredited :evil:
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Then there's the chainsaw courses, you do it 5 years later you struggle to get back on one to stay accredited :evil:
Been there completed that through TAFE :roll:
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Thanks you said it for me littlejohn!
This is starting to get ridiculous, volunteers should have respect for one another, not spend their time bagging one another!
Yet some volunteers have bag me tattooed across their foreheads. You know who I'm talking about Kat and don't deny it
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When you look at the National competency remember its for all states, SA is a small fish in a big pond.
PUAFIR202A Respond to isolated/remote structure fire - is the qualification that the RFS use for their village fire fighters. They use it to cover sheds, vehicles & houses in towns not covered by NSWFB.
With the chainsaw thing remember the competency is for life (unless you stuff up), the licence to operate however is up to the organisation you work for! If they insist a refresher every 5 years, then so be it.
cheers