SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: Darius on September 18, 2008, 02:19:26 PM
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interesting article on fire fighter fitness (particularly rural and volunteer):
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2008/09/01/2352516.htm?site=adelaide
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Yep, he sums it up well. I don't know why people take fitness so personally when if you're not fit on the fireground you're doing both yourself and your comrades a disservice.
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Should CFS be proactive and introduce a guideline to a recommended fitness standard, not mandatory but recommended. example 8 on the beep test or as the NPWS a pack test with a intermediate level.
This level could be used as a yard stick for your own performance, introducing the idea that fitness/endurance is neccesary on the fireground. Very thin edge of the wedge!
Thoughts?
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mr Jaff, very nice idea! doubt i could reach 8, been slack lately..
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mr Jaff, very nice idea! doubt i could reach 8, been slack lately..
Don't worry Zippy, either the right person yelling at you, or a fire chasing your buut up a hill and I bet you'd get to 11 :-D
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With the fire up my butt even i could get to 11 :-D
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The problem with the beep test is the number which coincides with "fit" changes depending on your age and gender. Who should the CFS set the standard for... People in their 20's, or people in their 50's?
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The pack hike test is a good starting point. Adopt the same levels as DEH for strike teams.. Include it as part of the basic skill drills.
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If CFS did that they would never get a second shift for a strike team...Look at all the problems they had last year getting people to got to KI.....Not sure of what the answer is but it has to be good for all,but we all need to look at our own level of fitness.. having said that I have been on the fireground with those that are fit(so they say) but they get more stuffed than I or others with in the crew that are overweight....
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Maybe Bill, but the pack hike doesnt take weight into account.
We should start somewhere? Dare i mention the word professional/personal development?
KI was for a whole different batch of reason i suspect. After all there has never really been much success with crew welfare over there (they do try, just never quite get there). then we can go on to mention trashed appliances etc.
Anyway, thats another topic that im sure will arise again this year...
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KI was for a whole different batch of reason i suspect. After all there has never really been much success with crew welfare over there (they do try, just never quite get there). then we can go on to mention trashed appliances etc.
Not to mention that the shifts were for a few days each - many people with jobs can't afford to take that much time off.
Is the pack hike just a walk for a set distance with a backpack on?
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Pretty much, not sure of the exact details off the top of my head.
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KI was for a whole different batch of reason i suspect. After all there has never really been much success with crew welfare over there (they do try, just never quite get there). then we can go on to mention trashed appliances etc.
Not to mention that the shifts were for a few days each - many people with jobs can't afford to take that much time off.
Is the pack hike just a walk for a set distance with a backpack on?
Yeah I thought the KI issue was the deployment itself. The way it is usually run and length of the deployment caused issues.
From what I've heard, pack run is just lugging a weight around a field n times.
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10Kg - 3.2Km
20Kg - 4.5Km (45min??)
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pack test info
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/wct/wct_index.html
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/wct/2002/brochure_2002.pdf
Three different levels depending upon fireground role - not one-size-fits-all.
Measures capacity to do work, not body-shape or running speed.
cheers
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Hmm, now if I was getting paid not a problem, but for f**ks sake, they can't even manage to run a first aid course when i can get to one that doesn't get in the way of my work, i would never be able to do the driver training with the new truck cause that's done around them, as if i would get time to do one of these around work.
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Thats the one Alan. :-D
As i said, just roll it into the burnover training nights.
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You have to get people to do the burnover drill first......
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You have to get people to do the burnover drill first......
Then as soon as they hop off the appliance from burn-over drill,
don a knapsack & walk around the block a few times. Ask the local
ambo's to keep an eye open for people lying down not breathing &
etc...
:wink:
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You have to get people to do the burnover drill first......
They shouldn't be going to any rural incident if they haven't!!!
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Fire Season is almost here so get fit boys....run Forest run :lol:
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Fire Season is almost here so get fit boys....run Forest run :lol:
Meh...maybe next year. :lol:
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Heh, can you imagine the reactions if they tried to implement and enforce a minimum fitness level? People whine enough about the BA testing, and there's a good portion of members in several brigades who would fall over and have a seizure at the mere thought of KILOMETERS instead of centimeters of walking or running.
This isn't to say its not a great idea, would be helpful to establish where people need to be improving in terms of fitness. I agree that being unfit or incompetent is doing a great disservice to one's team on the fireground, but there are a surprising number of people who fail to take this signal for self improvement into account. I imagine it would get a whole lot of backs up.
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so....maybe we could approach this from an opportunity to get better perspective....rather than a rule to be enforced and piss people off one.
Maybe - Brigade participation is voluntary, but if the whole Brigade participates, some measure of $$$ support from CFS/Corporate Sponsor (e.g. Flatfoot Brigade Fitness Program sponsored by Coopers Brewery) to help buy sporty stuff. Everyone in the Brigade does the test to get their own baseline level. From there a program is put together that helps everyone improve....Week 1 walk blah blah km's, Week 2 Interval training (walk /run) and so it goes. Progressive tests done every 8 weeks. Reward (yup, more $$$ or something similar) for those Brigades that improve by 20%(or 5% or whatever). The aim is improved health(and therefore less risk) not a magic number and a rule. It becomes a team building challenge, not an enforcement process.
Sounds like an easy program to put together and take to the 3rd year Sports Science kids at UniSA as part of their studies/assessment. Better still trade a non combative from Safecom for a $50k research grant and publish the results and let some young whiz earn their Masters/PhD as well. Everyone wins.
As an aside, the US Forestry Service who use and rigidly enforce the Pack Test Program , suffer numerous exertion related deaths each year. By comparison, when u crunch the numbers for differences in firefighter numbers, we have way fewer deaths from exertion. Do we have to do anything might be a question, or have we adopted a practice of working our people within their own unique capacity and modifying what we can achieve accordingly? Interesting topic
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MMMM,would be alright if CFS had some spare money to burn,there are appliances out there that need to be replaced and that is where the money should go first..... I am all for fitness if CFS sorry SAFECOM where to allow corporate sponcership then it may work but where would we keep all the gym gear that members want. May be we could approch a "lifestyle" gym that will give CFS/SES/MFS discount on membership...
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Yeah I think it is very clear in CFS that if you are buggered say so and get off the fire ground. and it is probably one of the big saving graces that keep CFS vollies alive. You do have to remember that the US forestry do alot more dry firefighting and that sort of work tho.
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I wish some people would remember THIS IS AUSTRALIA and not the USA and let's remember those guys in the US forest service who do dry firefighting or any other sort of firefighting get paid as they are full time summer firefighters...
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Fitness standards will never improve in the CFS while people still have the attitude "We are only volunteers". People don't want to undertake further training in firefighting/rescue operations let alone have to do anything that means they should take some personal responsibility.
Notice that most of the people who care about CFS and their ability to perform physically in the job are the ones that already take care of their own fitness.
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I wish some people would remember THIS IS AUSTRALIA and not the USA and let's remember those guys in the US forest service who do dry firefighting or any other sort of firefighting get paid as they are full time summer firefighters...
hmm....maybe some people could recognise a comment for illustration....not a statistically significant comparison. And if you'd like to go find the data from all firefighter deaths in the US for 07/08 (and the report is out)....then Volunteer responders figure just as high as any others....so perhaps we can just look at figures then...and not flags
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Guys, after a scrubbie today....my fitness is *thumbs down/fart sound*... tommorow, on the treadmill!~!!!
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Guys, after a scrubbie today....my fitness is *thumbs down/fart sound*... tommorow, on the treadmill!~!!!
AAAAHHHHH,Dont worry about the treadmill, go operational support.......TOUGHEN UP PRINCESS!!! :-D
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actually wouldnt mind doing IMT stuff, but im "too young" for that...HA HA. I quite prefer urban incidents over rural mop ups quite some much.
.......TOUGHEN UP PRINCESS!!!
Nextime i see you on the fireground, ill get ya back for saying that ;)
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I wish some people would remember THIS IS AUSTRALIA and not the USA and let's remember those guys in the US forest service who do dry firefighting or any other sort of firefighting get paid as they are full time summer firefighters...
I beg to differ Bill.
Some of them are paid crews contracted to forestry/parks.
Just like here.
The locals who respond first are, in many cases, volunteer brigades.
Just like here.
Local volunteers can be expected to do dry fire-fighting.
Just like here.
Their volunteer brigades/departments have widely varying cultures - from 'relaxed' to 'motivated'.
Just like here.
Numbers is right though... the people who care about fitness in the organisation are mostly taking care of their own already.
cheers
AJ
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THe bottom line, if nothing else should be a level of personal accountability for one's own stamina and fitness on the fireground.
There are a lot of people I wouldnt trust working with at a going job under any circumstance, due to distinct inability to keep up even under drill conditions.
In dry firefighting work it is just as important as within structure to have good levels of cardiovascular fitness and endurance. Whilst with structure, there is a clean air source in your BA, when it comes to wild fire, there is definate need for both good aerobic and anaerobic fitness.
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If all the members on this thread that bitch about firefighter fitness spent at least half the time they spend on here whinging about being unfit numptys working out they would be giving Lance Armstrong a run/ride for his money in the Tour Down Under!
Get off your bums fatties!!!
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interesting post on Firehouse this morning
http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Research--Training-DVD-Give-Volunteer-Firefighters-a-Helping-Hand/46$61561 (http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Research--Training-DVD-Give-Volunteer-Firefighters-a-Helping-Hand/46$61561)
Program from the States (Indiana) specially designed for volunteer firefighters that look similar in role and responsibility to us. Not a bad looking DVD with some good advice although its a bit long to download at 64mins
Website is here
http://www.indiana.edu/~firefit/ (http://www.indiana.edu/~firefit/)
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I wish some people would remember THIS IS AUSTRALIA and not the USA and let's remember those guys in the US forest service who do dry firefighting or any other sort of firefighting get paid as they are full time summer firefighters...
Heart Disease, cardiac episodes, cholesterol levels and every other medical problem associated with severe exertion and lack of fitness, are the same the world over.. US or AUS, Paid or Vol..
Just because your a Volunteer, doesn't mean people should 'pee' their fitness levels out the window because they 'don't get paid'.. - A certain level of fitness should be kept, the minute you take the *RESPONSIBILITY* of being a Firefighter.. - Paid or Vollie..!