Ok, well, so we don't drag this of track:
http://www.safirefighter.com/boards/index.php?topic=1088.225Lets resume discussion here:
Do you know how many 'working' fires they have every day, yet alone yearly? If Australian services even saw a 10th of that action, our LODD rate would be alot higher as well.
do you? and would it?
What are the figures? (ie. deaths per number of incidents both for Australia and the USA and for other fire services around the world)
Before we go to the wider USA, lets start with New York, the largest Fire and EMS provider in the USA. New York, has a population of over 8 Million people, covering a little over 320 sq miles of response area. (This includes Manhattan, Brooklyn, The Bronx, Queens and Staten Island)
(The Fire Statistics, not EMS) Last year (2006) the FDNY went to 7,049 confirmed structural fires in New York. 3,243 being working fires. (2,971 being 'All Hands', 202 being 2nd alarm, 45 being 3rd alarm, 16 being 4th alarm and 9 being 5th alarm or higher).
The FDNY went to 20,702 Non-structural fires (Brush, Rubbish or vehicle fires), 198,202 non fire related responses (Utility emergencys or any response non fire and non medical, eg Odour of Gas), and 28,836 AFA's/MFA's (Alarms or calls where no one / incident was present on arrival) And just for info they went to 209,397 EMS runs.
The latest Fatality chart I have for the FDNY is 2000. Unfortunately it is a Civillian Fatality Chart. The fatality count peaked between 1965 - 1980. These were the times when nightly minimum of multiple 2 bell fires were occuring in the Bronx/Harlem Borough. However doing the sums and averaging it since 1947 the yearly Civ. Fatality count hovered just under the 200 mark. (Thats just the average, and isnt correct to this day as I do not have the stats from 2000 - 2006, it hasn't been as high as 200 high since 1990, with exception to 2001. - LEave it with me and I will try and find the LODD Fatality Charts.
-Those are just the stats of New York. LA are on a similar trend with one of the downtown companys turning the wheel nearly 60 times a day. I can research stats for another 50 states, however believe the common trend in regards to working fires, speaks for itself. Our American Counterparts do have a higher LODD rate compared to us, and I believe the incident statistics show why this may be so. Im not talking about their methods, their training or the way they do things, but just going on statistics, with such a higher number of incidents being attended, it is understandable why their LODD rate/count is higher than our.
May I just add, to all those Lost in the Line of Duty, Rest In Peace.
Before we go to the wider USA, lets start with New York
These statistics are not all nicely published somewhere then I take it? (cos they should be)
So just for New York, in 2006 they attended 254789 incidents (including the false alarms etc since they count as incidents). And in 2000 they had approx 200 "civilian" fatilities (what does that mean? is that firefighters or not? if not, then it's not the figure we're after) for the year. And we are comparing different years here 2006 vs 2000. However ignoring all that for the moment and just going on those figures you provided, that makes 1 death per 1274 incidents for New York alone.
If it's too hard to work out all of the USA then assume New York is the busiest in the USA and just compare that to Sydney (and to London say).
If you read my first comment, I said give me some time and I will attempt to find the 2006 LODD charts. - I only gave the Civillian (non service member) figures just for some general information.
And you are correct, the information isn't 'nicely published' anywhere, and unlike people who just fly off the hip with statements at least im trying to account to mine with some factual evidence.
I will PM you the results if you wish, as this thread (at the moment) isn't fitting for what we are talking about. - And to make it easier, we will go NY vs AUS busiest fire service, im guessing NSW..?
Ok, so to add some figures for incidents attended by Aussie fire services 05/06:
NSWFB: 192,241
QFRS: 60,270 (04/05 Stats, also includes Emergency Medical Response)
MFSB: Approx 33,000 (Includes Emergency Medical Response)
SAMFS: 24,054 (Includes around 2500 CFS/SES dispatches)
TFS: 10,183
FESA: 9,963 (Includes some SES RCR turnouts)
NTFRS: 6,229
Once I get back from work, I'll try to grab the injury numbers as well...