SA Firefighter
General Discussion => Incident Operations => Topic started by: bajdas on October 31, 2006, 12:28:31 PM
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Last night aftre midnight, multiple emergency vehicles sirens could be heard in the Port Noarlunga South area. The vehicles were using the wail setting on the sirens & I suspect they were travelling through the South Rd/Southern Expressway area.
When the first group of vehicles passed, several dogs in the area began howling. First one, maybe two dogs started. Then the dogs got confidence & several began to howl.
A few owners could be heard yelling at the dogs to shut-up.
A few minutes later another group of emergency vehicles passed on the same route with wail sirens going. Same thing happened with dogs howling.
I suspect some dogs were then really told off by owners physically getting up & opening the back doors.
I have not heard the dogs howling for a few years. Does it happen often in other areas ?
I know of one country SES Unit that was reuested by the township that after 11:00pm, do not switch on the vehicle siren unless absolutely necessary until outside town limits. Basically, no vehicles on the roads between 11:00pm and 5:00am anyway within the town.
Do some Units/Brigades do this or is it ll lights/noise from the shed ?
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The dogs are usually the first indicator that the fellas are out around here... they start howling just before I can hear the sirens, and funnily enough, I still hear the sirens quite a while before anyone else.
It's official... Squiddy is part dog. :-o
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Pet Hate..... No traffic.... No sirens....... Doesnt wash well with our community anyway, quite often get complaints when the boys get trigger happy (for want of a better description).
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we never use the sirens at night (between about 2200 & 0600) unless there is a need to clear traffic.... which would be highly doubtful.
we dont even use them some times during the day if there is no need...
it should come back to common sense anyway.
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When I was a kid our dog used to howl like crazy when the town fire siren went.LOL
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If it was the incident last night next to the expressway, it was not after midnight,We were mobile at 2057, I was OIC on the first truck, SEAFORD 24, and we only used the sirens when they were necessary!
For anyone interested, it was a car fire in the new section of Noarlunga Downs. Mawson Group car discovered it and responded SEAFORD, we were participating in a group exercise on Seaford rd. SEAFORD 24P promptly responded, but about 100m's down the road stopped dead due to electrical issues, which have since been rectified, so SEAFORD 24 was responded. we arrived and with the assistance of Morphett Vale 24 and Morphett Vale 14 Extinguished the fire....and then i got stuck doing paperwork, yay!
Pixie
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i thought you were a cadet.
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Well obviously not a cadet if he's going to a call. You being the most experienced on the truck minus the driver is a bit worrying but I guess you need to get experience somewhere.
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a couple years back Kalangadoo was paged for an apple truck roll over just outside of town this was between 0700-0730 am being one of the first crew members down the station we had to activate the station siren since no driver was available
We got a few complaints from town residents about our station siren going off that early because their dogs went nuts on hearing the siren sound
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Don't forget the road rules flashing lights don't constitute a emergency vehicle you must have lights and siren going.......
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i thought you were a cadet.
WAS a cadet, at the start of the year
You being the most experienced on the truck minus the driver is a bit worrying
yes, thats what i thought as i saw who was running for the truck!!
but i think this incident highlights just how important the cadet program is!! it is amazing how much you can learn by doing mock incidents!!
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Don't forget the road rules flashing lights don't constitute a emergency vehicle you must have lights and siren going.......
I don't reckon you have to have both going....CFS SOP's also talks about sirens and / or flashing nights.....it is not a necessity for both.....just a bit of common sense helps!!
Pip
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I don't know about the CFS' seperate ruling on the issue, but generally an emergency vehicle is to display a siren, and/or red and/or blue light - when responding under priority to incidents.
A Cadet 9 months ago, and now an OIC of the appliance... - I wouldn't say it is worrying, as I have worked with many junior members who can cut it just as good as seniors.. - However I would be concerend a brigade as busy at that one, didn't have any other more senior members to take the OIC spot on the appliance.. - I would be very hesitant for a crew member who had only stepped up from cadets earlier this year to be running a job / appliance - It is ALOT of responsibility for a younger person. - But well done on your effort, sounds like the job got done !
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However I would be concerned a brigade as busy at that one, didn't have any other more senior members to take the OIC spot on the appliance.
All of our officers were on the other truck, which broke down. After the initial attack of the fire, the officer from Morphett Vale took over Incident control, at my request.
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A couple years back a friend was a senior at Seaford and was with him when the pager dropped for a domestic at Maslin beach the then captain put me on the truck as OIC i had no PPE with me, and we rolled up to a going 2 storey with person reported, The beach and Mclaren Vale rocked up and only being a FF, out of my own area, and no PPE i couldn't give away the OIC job no matter how hard i tried considering there were 3 lt's and 2 captains on scene??
Luckily i could actually do the job, but still how would you guys feel working in your area under an OIC who you don't know. Maybe a trend for that brigade :lol:
Nah they're alright they're a good mob at seaford
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Just confirming what Pipster and RescueHazmat said; according to the ARR you don't need both light and sirens going to be an emergency vehicle, either will do.
There is also nothing saying that an emergency vehicle must have lights or sirens going when responding to an emergency. (Or so a policeman told me, I would hope he's not wrong...)
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If you read COSO 8 Priority One Driving it says the same thing lights and/or sirens can be used.Still complys withh ARR's.Its up to the OIC as to what Priority the appliance travels on etc.
Remember the image portrayed to the public and we are professionals
Did wonders in our area we dont use the siren at night anymore unless there is traffic, and our wheelie bins have reduced to almost nothing because we have taken the fun away from them not waking up the whole neighbourhood at 04:00 in the morning :-D
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Please note that sirens should only be used if lights are being used.... Not just the siren on its own......
I dont think the rules specify that exactly, but worth pointing out.....
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Please note that sirens should only be used if lights are being used.... Not just the siren on its own......
I dont think the rules specify that exactly, but worth pointing out.....
Priority One is beacons/lights activated and/or sounding an alarm as defined
Definitely not the siren on its own :evil:
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Priority One is beacons/lights activated and/or sounding an alarm as defined
Definitely not the siren on its own :evil:
The problem with that statement is the 'and/or'.... implies that the siren can be used on its own.
However that is how it is defined in the ARR.
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You would think that the MFS in Adelaide would get alot of complaints from people living just outside the CBD about them zooming along the main roads in the early hours of the morning with lights & sirens going
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You would think that the MFS in Adelaide would get alot of complaints from people living just outside the CBD about them zooming along the main roads in the early hours of the morning with lights & sirens going
The MFS don't use sirens at night unless necessary, the same as most CFS brigades.
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A couple years back a friend was a senior at Seaford and was with him when the pager dropped for a domestic at Maslin beach the then captain put me on the truck as OIC i had no PPE with me
Should you be going out on an appliance with no PPE??
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Don't forget the road rules flashing lights don't constitute a emergency vehicle you must have lights and siren going.......
Extract from ARR
306—Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles
A provision of the Australian Road Rules does not apply to the driver of an emergency vehicle if:
(a) in the circumstances:
(i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and
(ii) it is reasonable that the rule should not apply; and
(b) if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving—the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.
Obviously everyone needs to read COSO 8 :wink:
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They were well short on crew and knew i had no PPE, and i said i would go out and handle comms if they were that stetched. But went no where near the house. But as i said i was quite happy to hand off to another officer and go stand across the road and watch, but there were no takers even when a DGO rocked up??
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not meaning to start an argument or drag things off track, but;
shouldnt be on the truck without FULL ppe...
if you are there as a CFS member then you should be in ppe no matter how far away from the incidenty you are..
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Sooo GO's just wearing vest's, or SO's running around in a PBI jacket nothin else, they never get stepped on and they should??
But anywho in the past and no need to drag this topic further off track so back to topic.
Only use sirens when and if absolutly necessary at night.
Does anybody know any brigades who use their station siren all hours still?? we used to until 5 years ago and only ever recieved one complaint. And that was from someone who lived nearly 4km from the station.
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Sooo GO's just wearing vest's, or SO's running around in a PBI jacket nothin else, they never get stepped on and they should??
yes i believe they should be in full PPE also.
yeah, although i wish it did not, our siren runs day or night upon reciept of a page from MFS Commcen... all hours it runs for 30 seconds....
we've never had an issue though, and the public seems to approve, but i still believe it should be daylight hours only.
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We have people that lived next it for 10 years and never once complained in the slightest, were trying to go back to using it during the day but we have to set it off manually as SOCC wil only do it if requested by alerts operators :|
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In my brigade, we have instigated a policy for this fire season to set the station siren off for every call involving a report of a bushfire in our area...regardless of time of day or night...
We also set our siren off for urgent calls, where crews are required ASAP - things like reports of serious crash, building fires etc..... ( and the siren becomes important when at least 9 active fire fighters often miss the pager messages, due to pager coverage issues...but that's another story)
The only "complaint" we had about our siren was from a lady who asked that when we test it on a training night, that we don't make it after 8.30pm, as it wakes up her kids.....not really an unreasonable request!!
Pip
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If your in trouble...be it car accident or house fire....a siren sounds like christmas bells when its needed..
I was with Seaford at a recent car accident.......they do pretty well..
LOL...I rem seeing a Officer years ago driving a BWT in his jarmies and slippers to an incident..
Yep.....No ppe.no getting on truck.....and no sirens after 22:00 sounds good
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In my brigade, we have instigated a policy for this fire season to set the station siren off for every call involving a report of a bushfire in our area...regardless of time of day or night...
We also set our siren off for urgent calls, where crews are required ASAP - things like reports of serious crash, building fires etc..... ( and the siren becomes important when at least 9 active fire fighters often miss the pager messages, due to pager coverage issues...but that's another story)
The only "complaint" we had about our siren was from a lady who asked that when we test it on a training night, that we don't make it after 8.30pm, as it wakes up her kids.....not really an unreasonable request!!
Pip
Your brigade has the same instigated policy as my brigade does pip when it comes to a fire on any hot day including total fire ban days the thing who ever turns up at the station first has to get everything ready as well as activate the station siren to let the town know there is a fire somewhere
Although just before the alerts system was removed this was a couple years after i became a senior fire fighter everytime our pager sounded the station siren would go off at the exact same time but this only happened during day time hours and now we have to activate the station siren manually
We used to have the problem of a full brigade turn out after the power went off and came on again as this resulted in the siren going off right away once power was restored so thats why we have a battery hooked up to the main supply box so if the pwoer does go out the siren wont turn off as the battery will keep it going
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You know in this day and age the fire siren is still the best way of alert for the public and the brigade members as we all know the pagers are not 100% coverage and there are lots of dead spots. We test our siren on a Friday nite and use it during the day if low numbers show up now you say SOC will only set your siren off if the alrets member ask for it why not just have them program it to go of we your pagers do during the day?
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I asked them if they could do that for our calls from 8am-8pm but was told that they wouldn't do it like that because they have to take other brigades who respond with us in to account, so was told that either the first person to the station gets on the radio and asks them to set it off, the first person sets it off manually from the station box or the alerts operators will have to ask for it each time??
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the first person sets it off manually from the station box
that sounds like it would be the best option then. as you would at least know that the station is open.
being urban, we don't have the luxury of a station siren. but one would be great to inform general public drivers that there may be a fire truck about to pull out...we almost had some idiot drive into us yesterday arvo, they were probably thinking "f%&king pushy council truck trying to drive out in front of me...ohhh I can hear sirens, I wonder where the fire truck is?"
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Dont know if you have seen it pixie but there is a new SOP on fire station sirens and you can now get these sirens installed back into stations. Just check with the group equipment officer or the region....
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Yeah pixie you lot could with some warning lights on commercial road. Either that or some huge airhorns :-D your 24 has air horns doesn't it??
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We have control over the traffic lights on the corner of comercial and seaford (have never seen them used though), but a nice set of Flashing lights on seaford road would be good!! as that is where we have most of our problems with cars not wanting to let us out
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If you have the control of the lights then use it! :-P
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We have control over the traffic lights on the corner of comercial and seaford (have never seen them used though), but a nice set of Flashing lights on seaford road would be good!! as that is where we have most of our problems with cars not wanting to let us out
Hopefully with the new development at Seaford Meadows the council will give you something extra to assist you. I live about ten minutes from the Seaford CFS station and the brigade has alot of respect within the local community.
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Tell me ryan would you wnat to be on the phone with the transport mob in town asking for a certain set of lights to be changed?? Probably quicker just to get in the truck and drive.
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I thought having control would mean just pushing a button.
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That would be sweet but no they have a map of the local lights and their code's and you ring a number and say i wan't blah blah light changed in htis direction and then it'd done for about 5 minutes or something??
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That would be sweet but no they have a map of the local lights and their code's and you ring a number and say i wan't blah blah light changed in htis direction and then it'd done for about 5 minutes or something??
BINGO...and that is why we never do it!!
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not sure if there are any brigades here,but In victoria there are a Number of CFA/MFB stations that have a button they push just before the appliances turn out that turns the traffic lights to red or into red flashing so as the brigade can turn out.....No need to call VICROADS,,,,
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Glen Osmond MFS have a button for the cross roads, port rush & mt barker rd intersection.
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Glen Osmond MFS have a button for the cross roads, port rush & mt barker rd intersection.
Are you sure? Last I heard they had to ring up to get them changed... I believe SAMFS Comcen can change lights in the metro area too...
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I asked them if they could do that for our calls from 8am-8pm but was told that they wouldn't do it like that because they have to take other brigades who respond with us in to account, so was told that either the first person to the station gets on the radio and asks them to set it off, the first person sets it off manually from the station box or the alerts operators will have to ask for it each time??
I'm lead to believe that if a brigade asks for their siren to be activated and they're part of a dual response, SOCC (or whatever they're called this week) will send a message out to the brigade that has requested it with URGMSG in it after the initial page has gone off (I've seen this a few times on the paging site).
I also believe there are brigades out there that have their siren linked to CFSRES, so it goes off with every response page received by the brigade. IIRC some Mt Lofty Group brigades do this...
If this is the case, you should be able to hook this up with a timer if you want, so it only activates between 0800 and 2000, for example.
Might be worth asking a few questions about the place...
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Glen Osmond MFS have a button for the cross roads, port rush & mt barker rd intersection.
Are you sure? Last I heard they had to ring up to get them changed... I believe SAMFS Comcen can change lights in the metro area too...
The button was there when i had a tour back in 2002.
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Is there not ruling that determines the time that you can use your siren? I thought i was ready something that said 08:00 to 20:00 or something? Our siren is on a timer which sets it to times near this.
It is controlled basically by the station controller, e.g CFSRES or URGMSG yuo can change it to suit and the same goes for door locks and so-on.
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The siren should be used only when really necessary. If theres a car in front of you put it on, if youre approaching a built up area put it on. Approach an intersection, put it on. Travelling on non built up roads with no cars, leave it off. Ive noticed when we approach the scene of the job we put ours on for about 5 seconds.
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Is there not ruling that determines the time that you can use your siren? I thought i was ready something that said 08:00 to 20:00 or something? Our siren is on a timer which sets it to times near this.
It is controlled basically by the station controller, e.g CFSRES or URGMSG yuo can change it to suit and the same goes for door locks and so-on.
Different siren...those guidelines refer to the station siren...although its use is also governed to a certain degree on what your community wants...
Pip
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MundCFS you could do like our station used to be and have a timer so that way the siren gets activated all the time it just doesn't get power from 8pm till 8 am so it can't go off during that time.
Now we only activate it the same as pip said when there is a rural fire near town.
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Glen Osmond MFS have a button for the cross roads, port rush & mt barker rd intersection.
Are you sure? Last I heard they had to ring up to get them changed... I believe SAMFS Comcen can change lights in the metro area too...
No, they have control over the light of the M1/Port Rush/Cross Rd./Glen Osmond rd. locally at the station, then have to ring up with a route no. to get others changed. You should know this, with your COQ being there.
Ryan, Wouldnt you be turning your siren OFF, when you get near a job? Make things nice and comfortable for any casualties around? Or is it just your brigades way of saying "Look at us we're here" ?
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I dont know, maybe we turn it off at RCR's I dont really take that much notice I know that sometimes I hear it go on as we near the incident, especially for things like fires or alarms.
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I know O'Halloran hill have 2 buttons, 1 for left which gives them the front of station and Majors Rd/Lonsdale highway lights and one for right that does the front of station and Majors rd/South rd lights. Anything more than that i think they need to call up.
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Ryan, Wouldnt you be turning your siren OFF, when you get near a job? Make things nice and comfortable for any casualties around? Or is it just your brigades way of saying "Look at us we're here" ?
its the backwards brigade.... dont use it whilst travelling then turn it on when you get to the job :-)
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Glen Osmond MFS have a button for the cross roads, port rush & mt barker rd intersection.
Are you sure? Last I heard they had to ring up to get them changed... I believe SAMFS Comcen can change lights in the metro area too...
The button was there when i had a tour back in 2002.
O'Halloran Hill MFS/SAAS had a button last time I was there..
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A set of the Emergency Traffic Lights that MFS have outside their stations are $100,000 a set,and I know what the answer is to anyone asking for them at CFS stations.....NO and buckleys chance :evil: