SA Firefighter
General Discussion => SA Firefighter General => Topic started by: 2468 on April 10, 2009, 07:31:12 PM
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Hi just interested whether any brigades have had interaction with the private industry, especially in regards to
sprinklers,
boosters,
dry pipe systems and
tank + pump + booster systems
all of which are now being installed in many hills and country areas.
Are any CFS brigades either urban or rural receiving flow reports for the hydrant flow tests?
Are any brigades being told of overhaul of system, in which the systems (any of the above plus others) are offline?
Have any brigades who have the ability to boost been shown how to boost a automatic monitor system?
Have any brigades talked to the servicing companies about information about how to read, use and understand the booster pumps that are located on site?
Just interested thats all...
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The reports / flow testing reports are kept by the client or site and are on hand when CFS does it 3 yearly inspection,any work that is done to a system where the sprinklers will be offline for long periods is reported to the local CFS brigade,CFS Regional office and MFS comms who look after all alarms in SA.
I have over the years showen brigade's how a booster system works and have also showen them how to turn the water off....CFS are ment to show each brigade who has a booster how it works but this is still slow at coming....... There is a difference to a commercial and residential system that are now being sprung up all over the Adelaide hills both have booster systems but they dont need the same pressure for them to work.
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How many brigades actually do the three yearly visit? cause many clients have never seen the CFS in their lives...
What about pumps? and i know of a 6 in, 6 out booster in the woodside area... Any trucks up there can boost that big? or the 10 in, 10 out in the Barrossa Valley.
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It's up to the local brigade as part of its brigade responce plan to visit site's and see where the boosters,FIP and other fire equipment is located.. It is up to the paid staff of the CFS from region or from SHQ to do the 3 yearly visit.. There are pumpers located in the area's you are talking about and these would be able to do boosting into some of the systems you are talking about, in the barrossa there is also a MFS station with a pumper and the local cfs also have a pumper both can and have done boosting in the area before.....
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Are many brigades doing practises on sites... Ie the enormous one at Barrossa... there actually 6 sites as big.
Are there going to be any Heavy Pumpers apart the Dennis...As the industry understands the only heavy pumper is Burnside.
Is there a course that teaches CFS how to handle Halon 1311 or dumping systems like C02?
Are CFS brigades equipped to handle sites in the urban fringes that have Storz already? There are also three sites in Mount Gambier and one at Monarto that has a storz booster... (the installation of Storz has been approved for new installations...) and a wholesaler... Flamestop are now imported selected amounts of storz in SA.
Are the Local brigades talking to the servicing companies to know about weak spots in hydrant coverage and sprinkler coverage and boosting??
Does the CFS communicate with the industry? As in urban, hills and areas done near the Vic border the CFS is like talking to a stone trying to get information out off and to get them to visit sites...
Do the CFS outside of the Urban area actually walk through places to check the suppresion equipment as to AS2444 and AS1851 (1995) As in to make sure that the servicing company is not just rag and tagging the equipment and bad fire suppression equipment placement ie one in the foot hills... DCP ABE in a fish tank store and AW near electrical...
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To be ready now, before the CFS puts forward funding for changing over appliance's fittings....
Buy 2x Storz 64 to SAFB 64 Adaptors (equalling 4)
most pumpers should have 100mm Storz suction hose.
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2468, you must be bored or you have found a problem with what CFS do or dont do?? The area that i look after i have a good working relationship with the local brigade's and groups who have systems and fips and fire equipment and I also take part in training sessions that these sites and the brigade's have and also provide back to them information.... It is not the local brigade's job to check if fire company's are doing the right thing that is the job of the FPA and also the job of clients who employ firms to do audits.
by the way 2468 have you changed your name as you sound so much like a person who was on here last year attacking the fire services in SA.....
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CFS is not using Storz or going down that path at this stage.
A few appliances can use Storz.
CFS do have a 20 year plan to get rid of the London Fire Brigade fitting.
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CFS is not using Storz or going down that path at this stage.
A few appliances can use Storz.
CFS do have a 20 year plan to get rid of the London Fire Brigade fitting.
i beg to differ......Storz is the new 64 (and above). CFS, like all other fire services (except WA for some reason if i recall correctly) have signed off on Storz as the standard for 64 and above. Theres other posts here about it so i wont re-hash again. It was also a feature in the Volunteer an edition or two ago.
Lots of appliances (old and new) are fitted with Storz couplings and hoseware, maybe hop out and have a look around a bit. What it will mean is 20 years of LR-Storz couplings :x Be nice to just change all over and be done with it in a Winter Changeover Campaign.
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oh yeah.....forgot to reply to 2468.....dude u seem to have either a particular axe to grind with the CFS, or u are trying to drum up business for your particular trade.
As for the latest 10 in 10 out Booster systems......not much in the MFS can deal with them either don't forget so maybe you could be a bit more balanced on who you start bagging. Bill's right, its not our job to be checking on the work of other people engaged in fitting and testing, only to have a plan if it turns to shite. If the plan is put five 2 in 2 out appliances on the Mega Booster....that works for me.
Is Halon 1311 still in use?....my understanding is this along with 1211 and 1201 was bannished from civil use years ago (the exception being aircraft for which there was no suitable alternative identified at the time). My info on this mught be old though.
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aint it the site manager/owner who has to ask Fire service to test the setup. To comply with fire regulations??? (i.e Risk mitigation of higher risk establishments)
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I think its a very interesting question that has been raised...
What is wrong with asking the hard questions? It seems that many CFS volunteers want to get on the truck, but that their involvement in the Fire Safety of their community stops their. The line from CFS HQ supports this, although we are finally getting a training course to deal with installed fire safety systems.
As for the questions regarding boosting anything above 2in 2 out, either get one of the few pumpers to deal with 4 in 4 out, or get more appliances. You can boost 10 in 10 out with 5 34Ps or two pumpers and a 34P easy...
Storz adaptors? It should be up to the brigade to manage the purchase of storz coupling adaptors depending on their need in their local area, just like you are meant to ensure that you have current keys to your major risks, and up to date site information.
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Yes, it would be great to swap over a Winter Changeover. But that just makes way too much Common sense.
I thought that the Storz was 65mm ??
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Yes, it would be great to swap over a Winter Changeover. But that just makes way too much Common sense.
I thought that the Storz was 65mm ??
And heres another question for you that might make 'way too much common sense'.
How much hose/pump deliveries/collectors do you have on your trucks and at your station? How many couplings/adaptors will just your brigade need?
Now multiply that number by the 450 odd brigades, plus the cost of the couplings, and there goes the entire CFS budget for '09/10.
Storz can be any size - don't forget that the difference in 64/65mm is how you measure it...
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The FPAA are barely existed in SA. Are no-one cares what they think. And its Law for the systems to be tested by brigades or a hills based contactor every three years to test the pipe integrity.
And when the built environments officer went the system has gone to filtered. Ie no-one checks the compliance hardly anyone.
Not axe to grind, just wondering if CFS can handle the larger boosters with 34P that are more common that the various medium or the heavy pumper.
and places in southern subrubs still have HALON.
and for the record im a sprinkler fitter working at the prominant hill mine.
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If we got called to a place with Halon, wouldnt the best thing to do be to respond the MFS On-call Safety Officer? (once again a State resource just like the Fire investigation and ADL206)...either by phone or on the run.
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If we got called to a place with Halon, wouldnt the best thing to do be to respond the MFS On-call Safety Officer? (once again a State resource just like the Fire investigation and ADL206)...either by phone or on the run.
Zippy....the MFS On Call Safety Officer is just a day working District Officer who may or may not have much of an idea about anything, theres a couple I know who do the role that would be hard pressed to distinguish Halon from its bad breath cousin.
If you want the State Resource, ask for the MFS Scientific Officer.
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Presently in SA 2458 the CFS can't do a lot at enforce such matter and my personal opinion is than goodness. When I talking about CFS I mean those in the ranks of the volunteers. If it is Region or State job to take care of such matters then that their problem not a volunteers problem.
We can only manage the risks the that we have it is up to insurance companies industry associations and safe works SA to ensure that they are meeting the Building Code of Australia and AS/NZ Standards.
I would suggest that you use your skills and knowledge that you have from your work to aid in the development of your Brigade risk management plans.
Yes you are right about the FPAA being small in the state considering that I am a member of the organisation and do some part time work in that industry. Yes I do take my own advice and have aided and developed the risk management plans for my Brigade.
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If we got called to a place with Halon, wouldnt the best thing to do be to respond the MFS On-call Safety Officer? (once again a State resource just like the Fire investigation and ADL206)...either by phone or on the run.
Zippy....the MFS On Call Safety Officer is just a day working District Officer who may or may not have much of an idea about anything, theres a couple I know who do the role that would be hard pressed to distinguish Halon from its bad breath cousin.
If you want the State Resource, ask for the MFS Scientific Officer.
I was merely trying to imply, its the job of A paid staff to know how to deal with these things that volunteers are not trained in.
Aint a good start to not even have a reference contact within the CFS to deal with Halon...except the CFS Oncall Hazmat/CBR Officer.
So...if you go to a Alarm job that you know has Halon built in...get your corner-store Hazmat brigade to be at the ready.
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oh yeah.....forgot to reply to 2468.....dude u seem to have either a particular axe to grind with the CFS, or u are trying to drum up business for your particular trade.
As for the latest 10 in 10 out Booster systems......not much in the MFS can deal with them either don't forget so maybe you could be a bit more balanced on who you start bagging. Bill's right, its not our job to be checking on the work of other people engaged in fitting and testing, only to have a plan if it turns to shite. If the plan is put five 2 in 2 out appliances on the Mega Booster....that works for me.
Is Halon 1311 still in use?....my understanding is this along with 1211 and 1201 was bannished from civil use years ago (the exception being aircraft for which there was no suitable alternative identified at the time). My info on this mught be old though.
I think FM-200 or CO is all that is used now.
Could be wrong..
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Halon is still in use in some places and planned to be up until around 2030 I think
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Halon is still in use in some places and planned to be up until around 2030 I think
is that as a fire suppressant, or as R13B Refrigerant? Halon is a bit of a generic term...theres a few different chemicals that come under the Halon group?
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further to that....a quick search of AS1851 (Mainteneance of Fire Protection Systems and Equipment) indicats that the 1991 version of AS1851.11 which dealt with Halon 1301 has been deleted now as obselete in the 2005 review. Does it therefore follow the use of 1301 as a fire suppressant no longer meets the Aust/NZ Standard?
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Halon is covered by a different AS as it is a gaseous suppresant, also there now system that are just straight C02 which are more hazardous as they have the combined effect of dumping up to 10 cylinders of -70 degree Co2 on firefighters and also suck a large amount of oxygen out of the air...
These systems are used in allot of CFS responce areas... Do many brigades know that these systems are in their response area? and also how to isolate the sonoeid?
And the paid staff aren't checking the systems... up here the CFS has never done a walkthrough and even in closer to town we'd fit systems in CFS areas and the brigade were never notified.
And the 2004 AS1851 don't mean a hell of a lot in SA... it isn't the Standard we use...
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It can be either up to Region, Group or Brigade to find out risks and catalouge fire safety systems in area's...more so Region's job. BUT, you should know theres not even enough staff to service the CFS itself ;)
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In the past its been the job of the CFS Building safety section but as they are flat out this work is being hand balled back to a regional office to do. I know down here the staff have done a few over the past few months and have been spot on with what they have found and reported. You are correct CFS does not have enough paid staff to do this type of work nor does the MFS.....
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Halon is covered by a different AS as it is a gaseous suppresant, also there now system that are just straight C02 which are more hazardous as they have the combined effect of dumping up to 10 cylinders of -70 degree Co2 on firefighters and also suck a large amount of oxygen out of the air...
These systems are used in allot of CFS responce areas... Do many brigades know that these systems are in their response area? and also how to isolate the sonoeid?
And the paid staff aren't checking the systems... up here the CFS has never done a walkthrough and even in closer to town we'd fit systems in CFS areas and the brigade were never notified.
And the 2004 AS1851 don't mean a filtered of a lot in SA... it isn't the Standard we use...
ok....so South Aust doesnt use the Australian Standard for this?....pray tell what Standard it is that you use out there in that bastion of compliance that is private enterprise?
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Halon is still in use in some places and planned to be up until around 2030 I think
is that as a fire suppressant, or as R13B Refrigerant? Halon is a bit of a generic term...theres a few different chemicals that come under the Halon group?
in fire supression systems (mainly in military aircraft and maritime applications, eg. ship engine rooms, defence have an exemption for these things), unlikely to involve the CFS much though!
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All aircraft still have and use halon,there are still a number of government site's/buildings that have halon mainly in computer rooms and in large underground secure rooms like bank vaults. These are being removed and replaced with new safer systems but it all take's time,Halon is still the only safe way in which to put a fire out in a aircraft they have tryed over the years CO2 and DCP(dry chems) but each had their own problems and made life hard for those who have to deal with these fire's at 10,000feet.....There is NO ONE in SA that can refill halon it all has to be sent to Victoria to the halon storage bank for refilling and i can tell you its not cheap.
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Hey 2468,can you tell us all where abouts is the 6in/6out that you talk about in the Woodside area???????
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Halon is covered by a different AS as it is a gaseous suppresant, also there now system that are just straight C02 which are more hazardous as they have the combined effect of dumping up to 10 cylinders of -70 degree Co2 on firefighters and also suck a large amount of oxygen out of the air...
These systems are used in allot of CFS responce areas... Do many brigades know that these systems are in their response area? and also how to isolate the sonoeid?
And the paid staff aren't checking the systems... up here the CFS has never done a walkthrough and even in closer to town we'd fit systems in CFS areas and the brigade were never notified.
And the 2004 AS1851 don't mean a filtered of a lot in SA... it isn't the Standard we use...
ok....so South Aust doesnt use the Australian Standard for this?....pray tell what Standard it is that you use out there in that bastion of compliance that is private enterprise?
hello 2468....u there, still waiting for you to enlighten us
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Hey 2468,can you tell us all where abouts is the 6in/6out that you talk about in the Woodside area???????
hah....there isnt. 6in/6out? doubt that...
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Sorry some of us do other things that sit on the net all day. It's handling facility for grapes and vine fruit for a number of businesses... Used to be a 4in-4 out but insurance wanted more- 6 in, 6 out with two pumps and a tank supply.
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Do people in the CFS wanna do walk throughs like the local mfs units do in town of all their areas to sites at all? Cause im sure the industry would be willing... even the company i work for even though they're multi-national would probs be willing to do walkthroughs. If not for the systems then to check what loads eg flammable and explosive so you know where they are in emergency...?
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2468,you still have not given me a answer to where this site is in woodside?? May be the companys you do work for should invite the CFS and not you its not your job its up to (a) the client (b) local brigade....
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Sorry some of us do other things that sit on the net all day. It's handling facility for grapes and vine fruit for a number of businesses... Used to be a 4in-4 out but insurance wanted more- 6 in, 6 out with two pumps and a tank supply.
awww...i'm sorry, I was hoping you might have done it this morning when u logged in....silly me (I did the right thing and checked u had actually been on the site before i poked)
Guess I'm not gonna get a response to my question either am i?
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Do people in the CFS wanna do walk throughs like the local mfs units do in town of all their areas to sites at all? Cause im sure the industry would be willing... even the company i work for even though they're multi-national would probs be willing to do walkthroughs. If not for the systems then to check what loads eg flammable and explosive so you know where they are in emergency...?
Little is done in this regard (sadly), in fact there is a school of thought that unless it relates specifically to bushfire risk, the CFS dont have the same right of entry to a site that the MFS has in the Act relating to the storage of hazardous goods and materials
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Are you sure of that misterteddy?????
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Are you sure of that misterteddy?????
Bill
the Act is a bit open on interpretation in this area I believe. I think there has been a discussion about the fact that CFS may not be as entitled to enter as the MFS, hence the softly softly approach to date (read none at all really)
Am I sure, nope, I aint a lawyer, but if thers talk about....then someone is generally worried enough to question it
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You might be right but I have never heard of any problems but I will ask around....
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Recently we have discovered that these firms that have large buildings in our area have been very welcoming for us to come and visit and do our own inspecting etc.
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Recently we have discovered that these firms that have large buildings in our area have been very welcoming for us to come and visit and do our own inspecting etc.
those that are willing and open...and mostly complying are never an issue bitten.....its the others where it becomes a bit tricky
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true, it was more the point that once we got of our asses things have been really easy. I bet that is the case most of the time.
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Do people in the CFS wanna do walk throughs like the local mfs units do in town of all their areas to sites at all? Cause im sure the industry would be willing... even the company i work for even though they're multi-national would probs be willing to do walkthroughs. If not for the systems then to check what loads eg flammable and explosive so you know where they are in emergency...?
Is this not something that should be covered in specific risk planning?
We try and arrange site visits every so often for this very reason...
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2468, I would love to know where this facility is as this is in my local brigades response area and have not been informed of any such system. Care to ellaborate a bit more
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I dont know wheer 2468 has gone have we scared him away as he is not replying to our questions???? I did see that he is now looking at buying a ex cfs/mfs appliance what is he going to do with that start his own brigade??? I did ask my clients that I have who have large systems and they all tell me the local CFS do a yearly inspection of their site's and look at the systems they also tell me that there are a number of training days coming up in the SE where local cfs/ses/police will be holding a disaster training session....
Now where is that 6 in and 6 out system??????
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Bill,
I doubt start his own Brigade. I would tend to go along the lines of Installation Sprinkler/pump testing.
Surely that would be more pheasable?(sp)